Talk:Amarynthos

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Amarynthos[edit]

(Moved from User Talk:SandyDancer)

You reverted the article back to a version which violates WP:NPOV and WP:V. Please stop. Mitsos 13:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mitsos. You know exactly why I did that. Seems to me you are trying to whitewash this incident - I accept the claims about the protesters being provoked etc. needs to be properly sourced, but you ignore in "your version" the following which seem to be asserted as facts by others, and completely change the complexion of the incident:

The racist nature of the monument itself (the inscriptions on it about "Slavic-Communist Gangsters"
The provocation against the marchers, e.g. stone throwing

With your history of extreme right-wing, Greek nationalist POV-pushing on Wikipedia, this doesn't look good. Reconsider - invite the editors whose submissions you deleted to provide sources for them - otherwise I think the article should be reverted to how it was before you cut half the information out - see diff here showing your deletions. Presently, the article is dramatically biased, I think. I will place an NPOV tag on it and paste a copy of this discussion on to the article's talk page. I will watch this article and if it remains as it is I will ~~eventually do some research myself and make edits~~ consider nominating it for deletion. I would prefer someone with knowledge of the incident in question (who isn't an extreme-right Greek nationalist) got involved however. --SandyDancer 13:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Mitsos, the fact you make a link from your already notoriously imflammatory user page to this article and the fact you have edited it using an IP sock puppet (presumably to evade one of your numerous bans (see block log for details), with a deliberately provocative edit summary (see here), doesn't do anything to establish any semblance of good faith here on your part. --SandyDancer 13:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did that by accident, and I later admited it was me who made that edit. Mitsos 13:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About the article: The monument wasn't of racist nature, and it did not said "Slavic-Communist Gangsters". Even the biased source (Ios, the same source used on Hrisi Avgi), doesn't says so. The artice is not biased now, but it was biased in the version that you suggest it should be reverted to. Mitsos 13:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In my userpage I have written: "Glory and Honour to Amarynthos". Mitsos 13:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why? To draw attention to this incident, to make a Greek-nationalist point presumably? Such messages probably shouldn't be on your userpage anyway - but in this case, it causes me to further suspect your motives in editing the article. This is clearly something you have a strong POV about - in itself, not a problem. But you chose you to delete all content that did not support your POV. --SandyDancer 14:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Νο, Ι deleted only the content that was POV. Mitsos 14:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Seems to me you deleted information other editors asserted were backed by the sources (which are in Greek so I can't check), which was all the content which presented the protesters' perspective on the clashes? Now the article reads as if a bunch of protestors turned up in a town and vandalised a war memorial for no reason - which seems ridiculous, sorry. --SandyDancer 14:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did that because I believe the people of Amarynthos must be honoured. They were the only ones who dared to oppose the anarchists, who think they have the right to do anything, incuding vandalise monuments. Here is what would have happened to Amarynthos if the people hadn't reacted: [1] [2] [3] [4] The last video is anarchists attacking the offices of Hrisi Avgi. Mitsos 11:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The anarchists always throw molotov coctails, burn cars and vandalise shops and then they seek asylum in universities (were they usually burn Greek flags and continue to throw molotov coctails). Unfortunately for them, Amarynthos hasn't got a university... :) Mitsos 13:03, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Possible (English language) sources for rewrite[edit]

Independent Media Centre - Amarynthos from Below: Raping and lynching in exotic Greece
Athens News - 'She wasn't at all attractive, she wasn't worth it': The insensitive remarks of an alleged rape victim's schoolmates have shocked Greece.
Kathimerini - Teen rape case sparks reaction
Migrants.gr - various articles from mainstream media linked to

It is unsettling that this article on such a horrifying subject has been allowed to be so unrepresentative of what seems to have occurred - thanks to the efforts of one editor, I suspect. --SandyDancer 14:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't even try to add indymedia sources there. Indymedia is the most inaccurate and non-neutral source that exists. Mitsos 11:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't use such a threatening tone. I will add whatever meets Wikipedia's standards, not yours. --SandyDancer 12:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I 'm not threatening you. I 'm telling you that you must not add indymedia sources because they are POV. Mitsos 12:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I 'm sory, my tone was a bit aggresive, indeed. I was terrified when I saw that you were planing to re-write the article based on an indymedia source! Mitsos 12:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV tag[edit]

I placed an NPOV tag on the article and Mitsos simply removed it. The reason I placed the NPOV tag is because Mitsos did this to the article - instead of placing fact tags, or better still adding sources, he simply removed all information presenting a view which does not fit with what I believe to be his POV. As any user can see, I have attempted to add some balance myself - I have added sourced information. However it is clear that valuable sources which need to be added will be in Greek - a language I do not speak/read. Therefore I cannot do that. I have re-added the NPOV tag on that basis - I personally can't correct the perceived bias - a Greek-speaking editor needs to, and Mitsos is unwilling or unable to take on this task. --SandyDancer 16:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly the "information" should've been removed, because it was mostly editorializing, not information. Sentences like "the controversy which ensued has demonstrated the ugly side of the often idealised Greek rural life" might belong in an editorial page, but not in Wikipedia. What little was there that could count as factual assertions were unsourced, and it's Wikipedia's policy to immediately remove any unsourced information that could constitute an attack on living people. --Delirium 01:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's right. Mitsos 07:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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