Talk:America's Cup

Bond characterization

Dishonest? Was Bond's dishonesty related to the Cup racing - no, hence I don't think it is relavant here. It would be like adding the adjective "Libertine" in front of Bill Clinton's name in an article about his administration's foreign policy. The place to mention Bond's dishonesty would be an article on Bond.

Yes, it was related. America's Cup racing has been described as "standing in a cold shower tearing up $100 notes". Bond spent a substantial amount - many million - to win the cup, and the money was dishonestly aquired. Not opinion: he wound up in jail for several years, and would still be there had his lawyers not got him out on a technicality. See [1] Tannin 22:11 17 February 2003 (UTC)

---

In the modern day spirit of the cup, i dont think it matters where the money came from. Late 80s / early 90s challenger Michael Fay made his fortune ripping off the New Zealand taxpayer by buying state assets for a pittance and asset-stripping them. Equally immoral in my opinion. The business activities of many challengers and defenders which are legal in one nation could be construd as illegal in another.

How dishonest / immoral the source of the money to fund challengers is decided by the nations from which they come. Since there is no internationally recognised quorum of what is and isnt legal, i believe the source of funding is irrelevant.

I will leave it up to you to decide.

Aerodrome (talk)

New Zealanders

"Alinghi alone had 4 New Zealanders as crew"

I thought it was 6, Coutts inclusive.

There were 8 in total on the team, not sure about the actual crew. Dramatic 01:44 13 March 2003 (UTC)

Challenger for the America's Cup

Strictly speaking, the "Challenger of Record" for the America's Cup is phantom invented by the New York Yacht Club to allow managing a multi-challenger cup. All of the challengers listed in the table of challengers and defenders are those that actually sailed in the final America's Cup match. The challenger selection series is not the America's Cup, and it is impossible to list the challenger in this article until the CSS is completed in 2013. --Paul (talk) 05:06, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Paul, I think that a strict interpretation of the Deed of Gift leads to a slightly different conclusion. The challenger, according to the DoG, is the club that submits the first challenge and then negotiates the conditions of the races with the defender. In the agreed protocol, it is customary to have a challenger selection process, at the end of which the winner of that process replaces the challenger. That is, for now the challenger is the Swedish Yacht Club. After the challenger selection, that club will be replaced as challenger by whoever wins the challenger selection. Obviously we cannot explain all of that in the table. So I would propose that in the column "Challenging club" we list "Swedish Yacht Club" and in the column "Challenger" we leave "TBD". Comments?--Gautier lebon (talk) 07:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree, perhaps we could list it as "Swedish Yacht Club (CoR)" to make the difference clearer? But at the moment KSS is the challenging club. Mattlore (talk) 20:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

NZ Black Magic Challenge & Subsequent Defense

I find it hard to understand why New Zealands 1995 win and subsequent succesful defense are not mentioned further in the article. The 2000 regatta in Auckland was the first successful defense of the cup outside of the US in the Cups history. It seems to me that the Australian's capture of the cup in 1983, NZ's capture in 1995 and the Swiss capture in 2003 are all significant events and worthy of more than single line mentions — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.90.196 (talk) 01:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

America's Cup is Not the oldest Cup in Sport

The America's Cup is not the oldest Cup in international sport. That distinction belongs to the Grand Challenge Cup administered by the Stewards of the Henley Royal Regatta.That cup is also a 100 Guinea trophy and was provided by the townspeople of Henley on Thames. The first race was in the summer of 1839 and has been in competition ever since with the exception of the war years (WW I and WW II). It was open to all crews of "gentlemen rowers" which practically meant amateurs, in eight oared boats. Since England was the dominant force in the early years of competitive rowing it was some years before a foreign crew from Belgium was able to best the British and win the cup although many foreign crews tried. Coincidentally, in 1851, the year of the race won by the yacht America, HRH Prince Albert became the patron of the regatta, hence the Royal in the formal name of the regatta. The Stewards Challenge Cup was instituted in 1841 and was for four oared boats and also pre-dates the America's Cup.

The first non-English competitor at Henley also pre-dates the first challenge to the newly created America's Cup in 1870, even though the Henley Royal Regatta was open to any foreign entry that met the amateur status of the competitors since the formalization of the regatta. An attempt to add language to the rules restricting entries to the Henley Royal Regatta was proposed in 1901 but decisively rejected, thereby keeping the original rules of entry allowing non-English rowing teams to compete for the Grand Challenge Cup as well as the Stewards Challenge Cup.

--198.228.212.208 (talk) 05:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)World Rower <Wikipedia pages for Henley Royal Regatta> <The Story of World Rowing, C. Dodd, 1992> <Stewards of Henley Royal Regatta, Henley on Thames, www.hrr.co.uk/history-organization/>

The Henley regatta Grand Challenge Cup may predate the America's Cup, and the regatta per se may be international today, but it was awarded for races that did not include overseas participants until 1870, did not include foreign participants until 1878, and all editions have not been systematically international. The America's Cup trophy however, despite changing names and rules since 1851, has been awarded for races which by definition must include entrants from different nations since 1851. In 1851 the trophy was awarded for a race which happened to include different nations, so in this context and by consensus, the America's Cup is indeed the oldest trophy in international sport. signed:Nuttyrave (talk) 13:49, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

The statement that the Cup is the oldest trophy in sports has been challenged, so I found a reference and removed the challenge.--Gautier lebon (talk) 10:28, 1 January 2012 (UTC)