Talk:Americas

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AmericaS is a joke[edit]

From Britannica:

World map of Waldseemüller (Germany, 1507), which first used the name America (in the lower-left section, over South America)[1]

(…) The name America is derived from that of the Italian merchant and navigator Amerigo Vespucci, one of the earliest European explorers to visit the New World. Although at first the term America was applied only to the southern half of the continent, the designation soon was applied to the entire landmass; (…)

From Wikipedia in other languages: America (Aragonese), Amerika (Deutsch), América (Spanish), Amérique (French) [not AmériqueS], America (Italian), América (Portuguese) [although in the article, unsourced material says Américas is used…] and so on. But in english… AmericaS…

Just using the (weak) argument that the chosen 7 continent model is right and the other ones shoudn't be considered (and the entire world should be ignored). But that's Wikipedia: knowledge (strongly) language/country dependant and managed by people with a lot free time to impose their opinions and their… truth. MPA Neto (talk) 09:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

The English Wikipedia is written in English, the Spanish Wikipedia is written in Spanish. It's not a problem that the same place is named differently in different languages, compare London and fr:Londres, or Turin and it:Torino. Writing the English Wikipedia in Spanish or German makes no sense. WilyD 10:36, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
You might try reading a little more of Britannica: "Americas also called America, the two continents, North and South America, of the Western Hemisphere." - BilCat (talk) 15:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
As I said, "a lot free time to impose their opinions and their… truth". Like watchdogs, choosing what comes in or not. MPA Neto (talk) 02:21, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
BTW, I've made some modifications to the topic Terminology/Portuguese, which was unsourced (since December) and with errors. The topics Terminology/French and Terminology/Dutch seem to have the same errors and inconsistencies, at least with Wikipedia-Dutch (Amerika) and Wikipedia-French (Amérique), as far as I've seen. Both need sources and work. It seems that someone want us to believe in something that isn't reliable and can't be proven. MPA Neto (talk) 02:33, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, I'm a bit more tentative about the other sections, but I don't believe the section should wander off into discussion other names for Americans, etc. Only note the using "America" or "American" when one means "the Americas" or "North and South American" is "ambiguous", because "America" and "American" are almost invariably used to mean "the United States" and "relating to the United States" (which is relevant to this page only because it explains most of the problem with using America and American when one means the Americas or inhabitants thereof. (And the sentence on how it's offensive to Canadians mostly rounds it out, though it'd be good to have a source on how Jamaicans, Bermudians, etc. feel). Then, note there are unambiguous terms for referring to the Americas . What else one calls Americans or the States is off-topic. And this article already spends way, way, way, way, way too much time on terminology, and way, way too little time on the actual subject. History, geography, politics, economy, etc. all need to be expanded, and at the expense of pushing fiddly terminology down to more specialised pages. This page should be about the Americas, not about what people from the United States are called. American (word) and Americas (terminology) exist for that purpose.
Et aussi, at this level of nuance, one really needs to speak the language reasonably well to suss out the usage in detail. But the French usage section is definitely correct, and in line with what's done on French Wikipeda (Voici: fr:Amérique_(homonymie) et fr:Américain). WilyD 12:34, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
"America" and "American" are NOT used to mean "the United States" and "relating to the United States". Perhaps in your local area of the world it is but not in general. Having three Americas is a misunderstanding. If you're referring to the United States of America there is the dreadful long name and there is the abbreviation USA. 2.110.44.130 (talk) 22:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
But knowledge IS strongly language and country dependent in many cases. For example, the number and names of the continents. Yes, the 7 continent model is given primacy here on English Wikipedia because that's what is standard in most English speaking countries. The models used in other languages are not excluded, nor are they denigrated. But it would make no sense to follow them on this website when the general thrust of English publications is against them. --Khajidha (talk) 12:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
English is spoken in every country on Earth. 2.110.44.130 (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Pan-America?[edit]

Should we discuss that proposed addition to the lede? We have the Pan American Games (no dash included) but the term is not as common as "Americas". I'll start the discussion, and don't intend to carry on, but it should be discussed after a revert or two rather than edit warring over the term. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:56, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

There is no entry for a noun Pan-America in the second edition of the OED or in Merriam-Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (9th ed.), though both have entries for the adjective Pan-American, of course. I think that without solid evidence that the noun is in common use—outside of such specialist uses as names of divisions of sports leagues, fictional nations in novels, and the like—it should not appear in the opening sentence as an alternative to Americas. Deor (talk) 01:35, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I concur with Deor. There's just no evidence of widespread usage. - BilCat (talk) 03:36, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. A handful of sources don't justify its use in this way. Dougweller (talk) 08:27, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Pan-America and Pan-American are quite different to discuss. Pan-America I've never seen anywhere else (although calling the source dubious is a bit much - certainly, one can find other examples of it's use with Google and a modicum of patience (Pan America in Crisis quote: "Pan-America, geographically speaking, includes everything from the Arctic to the Antarctic oceans, and Pan-America, politically speaking, covers everything from the United States south to Argentina ..." and so on). Pan-American is quite widely used as an adjective (the PanAm games are hardly the only case - PanAm Air, the Pan American Highway are likely to be familiar to most people, many more obscure occurances exist. It's perhaps unclear how often it's used as an actual demonym (but I've never encounted American as a demonym for an inhabitant of the Americas in the wild either (but I'm a big guy, and from Canada, people don't usually enjoy shots in the mouth, so perhaps that's not indicative of much). So while we might relegate Pan America as a more obscure term to the more involved terminology section, I think we have to seriously entertain Pan-American as a demonym on par with American or New Worlder, as Pan-American is far more commonly used than Pan-America. WilyD 08:59, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
As an adjective, Pan American obviously means something spanning the Americas. You'd expect a demonym to mean something similar. I don't see the source[1]f as suggesting it is a synonym for American. Compare its definitions for American.[2] Dougweller (talk) 12:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I've removed Pan-America from the Lead, but left Pan-American in the infobox for now, as that seems to be the consensus here. If someone wants to add something to the main text about the occasional use of Pan-America, that'd be fine. Please note that I add the dubious tag to refer to both the claim of Pan-America as being common usage, which is what including it in the Lead as an alternate name means, and for the original "sources" of a bok title and a Linked-in company entry. Other sources were later added in front of the tag which were more legitimate. - BilCat (talk) 18:06, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
I added Pan-American since I know that is another way to refer to something of the Americas and one that would not be confuse with American and something better instead of "New Worlder". (Technically New Worlder is correct but still.) To me it wouldn't have made sense having Pan-American without Pan-America so added that as well and provided a source. I added more sources since people kept on questioning each source. (Yes Pan-America is a word.) Editors kept on reverting and of course the 3 revert rule is going to get broken if it's 2 against 1 and each 2 can make two edits and technically not break the rule while I have to keep on changing it back. What was I suppose to do? Let my time go wasted? I got blocked and made me realize that it was not something worth to getting block over. Over an alternative name for the continents? Not worth it. I still feel Pan-America should be included. Maybe the lead could go as "The Americas, also refer to as Pan-America or America, also known as the New World, are the combined continental landmasses...". You guys decide. AbelM7 (talk) 06:25, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

I think the Naming of America should have its own page, rather than be redirected here. The article Richard Amerike could be merged into it, along with the numerous mentions of the issue elsewhere.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:09, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Language Order[edit]

There's been a recent change to the order in which languages appear in the info box. English now appears as the first language in the list when previously it was Spanish. What is the ordering convention being used? It is not alphabetical. If it's based on how much the language is used, then the proper order is to put Spanish first. The Americas page itself states that, "The most widely spoken language in the Americas is Spanish." Pete Angritt (talk) 17:59, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

États-Unien/Étatsunien[edit]

This variant is sometimes used in French. For the sake of completeness, shouldn't there be at least a quick mention about it? 74.58.15.135 (talk) 20:37, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

  • This article is about the Americas. The Americas, and their denizens, are never referred as Les États-Unis où Les États-Unien in French. So there's nothing to mention in this article. WilyD 12:32, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Then why is there such a mention under the Spanish language section? Talk about the subject completely or not at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.58.15.135 (talk) 22:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
    • Because this article, like all of Wikipedia, is a work in progress, and that section needs work. It's hardly alone - this whole article is in very bad shape; partly because it's the site of a contentious issue, and partly because it's exceedingly difficult to find English-language works that consider the Americas as a whole. WilyD 08:52, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
    • ^ Cite error: The named reference LoCmap was invoked but never defined (see the help page).