Talk:Analects

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Historicality of the Analects[edit]

Hi, could you explain why you consider the Analects of Confucius to be an "ostensible record"? Because as far as i know, the status of the work as the bona fide record of the words of Confucius and his disciples is not disputed. (Btw how's the work on the Peking Opera coming along?) Cheers! :) --Plastictv 08:46, 7 October 2005 (UTC) [originally posted on Dpr's talk page]

At the risk of sounding argumentative, if you can show evidence that a consensus of serious academics holds the work to be indisputably historic, then we can remove "ostensible." You are probably right, in fact, that it is indisputable...but I'd rather err on the side of caution. Thanks --Dpr 01:16, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
i could point you to the Chinese language wikipedia (zh:論語) or other references (the copy of Analects i have, for example, says "[论语]记载着孔子的言语行事,也记载着孔子的若干学生的言语行事", meaning "[The Analects] records the words and acts of Confucius, as well as those of several of his students.") On the other hand, i'm really interested to know the source of your "ostensible" notion. There could be disputes i'm not aware of. --Plastictv 03:49, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
I mean, we need scholarly sources which trace the history showing that a) Confucius really existed and b) the Analects are an accurate historical record of his teachings, rather than a re-creation...for instance, Plato's works may or may not accurately refect Socrates; the same thing here. No, there is not a specific debate I am referencing. But as I said, I'd rather err on the side of caution; some could call the New Testament an ostensible record of Christ's teachings, for instance...so I'd say ostensible should be the default until there are historical sources shown.
Nonetheless, this is not my attempt at stopping the show--go on with whatever you want to do with article...this is just my approach/attempt to be NPOV, and others may have different interpretations of NPOV. --Dpr 01:44, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
... Oh my... i really don't know how to reply to that. i've typed several versions so far and deleted all because they all sounded sarcastic even though i don't mean to be. i guess i'll just take away the ostensibility for now, and you could add it back anytime if you find any base for contention alright? (i'm sorry i really can't come up with a good answer for you. Btw the quote from the copy of Analects i cited is from the foreword, i.e. coming from a scholarly source?) --Plastictv 06:05, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I'd say we need more than one scholarly source, and I'd be inclined to say that we should be discriminating--not just "any" source is credible.
In any case, let's check this article out. --Dpr 06:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
The notion here is that Wikipedia upholds the opinion considered to be generally upheld, unless such opinion has been or is currently being seriously contested. i wouldn't call two "scholars" from Northampton serious contesters, not in the realm of Confucianism at least; not even the UMass professor, who certainly seems to have a very political agendum. --Plastictv 01:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
This is an entirely prejudicial response, as your scare quotes around "scholars" shows.

JSoules (talk) 17:12, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

As I understand it, the Analects are not now thought by scholars to have been Confucius's own work, but that of a later compiler.
Evangeline (talk) 03:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The word "analect"[edit]

Where does the word "analect" come from? --HappyCamper 17:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at [wiktionary] friend. --DynV (talk) 04:59, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


James Legge, who I believe was the first to translate the Analects into English, in 1861, used the word, and it has become the traditional way to refer to the Lun Yu.
Evangeline (talk) 03:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I can confirm that that's where it came from (I just read James Legge say that he thought up the name). Joshua Marshman also has a translation, written in 1814 (will add it to the main article later) but it uses a more common-english translation of the title, which clearly didn't catch on. Note that I am reading both in parallel on Google Play Books as a personal project. Alsuren (talk) 10:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Move to "Analects"[edit]

Analects redirects here and is the more common name. Compare to Iliad (not "Iliad of Homer"). Republic (Plato) is disambiguated parenthetically, but only because there are other works with this title. There are no other works called "Analects" at least none that come close to these in terms of notability. savidan(talk) (e@) 04:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Page moved. :) -GTBacchus(talk) 20:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Commented version[edit]

I really liked confucius.org version with it's footnotes which save me a lot of research which I had to do with plain ones. Please add similar versions here (of course, also on the article). --DynV (talk) 04:54, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Contents[edit]

I added content from the Dutch Wikipedia, which was written and formatted by a scholarly contributor, Guss (many thanks, I don't know how to format!)
Evangeline (talk) 04:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Official AND academic commentaries on the text of.....[edit]

己所不欲 勿施于人 in this topic....

--222.67.209.142 (talk) 05:45, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

--222.67.209.142 (talk) 05:48, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Lead section[edit]

Inter alia, "Analects" and "Analects of Confucius" are not separate titles. Combine them. Also, per MOS-ZH, we should not be including the mess of Chinese text in the lead section when it is already easily available (in greater detail and with better treatment) in the infobox to the right.

Also—especially since I know native speakers are sometimes the last to practice it—it's worth pointing out that there are rules for the capitalization and spacing of Chinese in pinyin: this book is properly the Lunyu and not anything that involves two words. Someone can do some research at Google about relative frequency, though: if the "wrong" version is common enough, we should include it along with the proper format in the lead. — LlywelynII 13:07, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

See WP:R#PLA and MOS:BOLDSYN. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:19, 5 July 2014 (UTC)