Talk:Anarchism in Ukraine

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Improvements needed[edit]

There's the kernel of an interesting article in there but needs drastic life saving surgery. Firstly I'd say it was tendentious in the extreme to claim early peasant uprisings as anarchism "avant la lettre", it might make for historical background but where is the continuity? Secondly I understand you're emotionally invested in the subject but your tone and diction are not what's expected of an encyclopedia - hence the not NPOV tag. Lastly wtf is a "sponteneous ejaculation of history? Is that a joke? If it is you seem to be discrediting your own article. 82.41.222.26 22:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

References[edit]

An editor feels that the third paragraph is POV or otherwise needs a {{fact}} tag. Personally, I think this is a little unfair, considering that there are 5 sources in the References section (which is amazing for an article of this size!). I do realize, however, that they could be formatted better or even integrated within the body of the article itself.

What I believe the editor had in mind, however, was a {{pagenumbers}}, {{nofootnote}}, or {{unreliable}} tag. I don't want to put words in his/her mouth, so I've asked him/her to add some specific suggestions/critiques here. I'm perfectly fine with leaving the {{fact}} tag until this is resolved.

Any other ideas on how to fix the references in this article? Wyatt Riot 15:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe I am the editor you speak of...not having read the sources I can't say whether the claim that "communities operated successfully on the economic theories of Peter Kropotkin and educational principles of Francesc Ferrer i Guàrdia." is supported by them. I am unfamiliar with Ukranian history, but quite familiar with economics, and the idea that Kropotkinite economies were more productive than feudalist or capitalist ones is something counterintuitive to contemporary orthodox economics. If some other stadard of success was meant by the author, such as the communes were fairer or more attractive to anarchists, this should be mentioned instead. As it stands, I view the claim similiar to "Robbie Williams is a brilliant singer." - unsupported and difficult to stomach from a neutral perspective! I am sorry if the {{Fact}} tag was the wrong one to use, I am not altogether au fait with the referencing style here. Thanks for calling me on that.

As regards suggestions for improvement, the article for all its references is relatively short. I searched for the article originally after hearing the subject frequently cited by anarchists as an example of other leftists betraying the anarchists and imposing authoritarian regimes, as happened in the Spanish Civil War, so perhaps there could be more added on that subject. Secondly, if it hasn't already been done, the Anarchism in Europe template could be made into a project, with a common format/approach to each nation. Best of luck with the article. Skomorokh 16:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't want to mention you by name, feeling that it's too much like "calling you out" or something similar.  :) Personally, I have not read the sources, either, but I'm assuming that the original editor did (per WP:AGF) and that the sources characterized these communities as successful in such a way as to be NPOV. That's really the best we can do, I think, short of going back to those sources to check them.
So, I've changed the tag in the article to {{verify source}}, which seems more in line with what you're thinking. If I've misunderstood you, feel free to change it back, or add any of the other cleanup tags. Wyatt Riot 00:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Groovy, I really appreciate your fair-minded approach, kudos. 06:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)