Talk:Andrei Gromyko

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Former good article nominee Andrei Gromyko was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Surname[edit]

Is it true that Gromyko's family's original surname was "Katz," as some websites state? Badagnani 05:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No idea. But I think Gromyko was not his name of birth, at least I remember having heard or read about this. Could you provide some links? --Maxl 21:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Birth name was Gromyko, in keeping with the rural Russian custom of taking one's village name (in this case Starye Gromyki, or "Old Gromykos") as one's surname. Families in Starye Gromyki adopted informal surnames to distinguish from one another; Andrei Gromyko's family went by Burmakov. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bush555 (talkcontribs) 13:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

1st GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Andrei Gromyko/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 15:02, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: found and fixed eight. I unlinked common words such as paycheck and prominent.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 15:09, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Linkrot: found and tagged one.[2] Jezhotwells (talk) 15:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

  • Yes check.svg Done --TIAYN (talk) 15:25, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    When he filled 13 years, Gromyko went with his father to gather money for the family. filled?
    After studying for seven years in the fields of vocational and technical in Gomel, ... vocational and technical are adjectives, where are the nouns?
    Borisevitsj assured Gromyko that this new stipend would be at same level of the highest paid members of the Communist Party. Missing definite article.
    Gromyko was quite amazed of what Stalin said, but nonetheless he never visited an American church Poor grammar.
    Stalin went back and forth as normal and the importance of Gromyko's new office What is this supposed to mean?
    To officialise his ambassadorship, Gromyko handed over his credentials to Queen Elizabeth II. To officialise?
    The following year they met up again to talk about the World War II, it marked the last time Gromyko talked to Churchil face-to-face because his ambassadorship had recently been revoked." Very poor grammar.
    When leaving Churchill's home in Downing Street 10 the British press were prying over Gromyko Very poor grammar.
    Gromyko spent his initial days as Minister of Foreign Affairs solving the problems with his ministry and the International Department (ID) of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), led by Boris Ponomarev. shoudl be something like "problems between his ministry and the International Department" #:: Ponomarev advocated for an expanded role for the International Department, something Gromyko refused. Please get this prose copy-edited.
  • Yes check.svg Done - NB: although Ambassador clearly uses the phrase "Ambassadorship" I have edited in line with the request. Chaosdruid (talk) 22:12, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
  1. The article fails the "reasonably well written" standard, Poor grammar, misuse of commas and missing commas throughout, clumsy and ambiguous wording. It appears to have been badly translated by someone with a lack of knowledge of good plain English.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    One dead link[3] found and tagged. Google news is not archived so some other source needed.
    Yes check.svg Done --TIAYN (talk) 15:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
    I assume good faith for off-line sources, also for Russian. Other sources check out
    "The United Kingdoms now have the opportunity to play a greater role in international politics. But it is not clear in which direction the British government with their great diplomatic experience will steer their efforts [...] This is why we need people who understand their way of thinking"', needs a citation, as all quotations do. Also check the source because United Kingdom should not be plural.
    The information referenced by ref #67 needs an update as that source is over a year old.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    I am not going to list this artcile now as it needs a thorough copy-edit by someone who can write good plain English. Currently it is a long way from the standards required by the good artcile criterion of "reasonably well written. This problem is throughout, the examples noted above are just some of the most glaring. Please get it copy-edited and then I would suggest a peer review. Articles should not be nominated at WP:GAN until they are ready and meet all of the criteria. If you are not able to judge this yourself, get a WP:Peer review. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:56, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Copyedit[edit]

Hi

During the copyedit a few things came to light which need attention:

  • "Andrei was not a very educated man, as he had only attended four years of school, but knew how to read and write." - not clear as to which Andrei it refers to, Gromyko or Matveyevich
  • "Gromyko received a very small stipend to live on, but still had a strong nostalgia for those days." - What days ? The previous sentence says he was a volunteer but there is no link shown between the stipend and volunteer work. Does this mean he was not permitted to volunteer as he now received a stipend?
  • "Grinevich gave birth to two children, Anatolij and Emilia." Were the Gromyko's or someone else's?
  • "After that day of pleasantry Gromyko for the first time in his life wanted to enter academic life." - was he not already in it as he was on a course of secondary education? Does this "academic" perhaps relate to further education in a Universtiy or similar?
  • "In the same period the Republic of China (Taiwan) used the veto once" - does this mean on the Taiwan issue, or was it a Taiwanese representative?
  • "This could help explain his so-called "boring" personality and the mastery of his own ego." - possibly OR as is unsourced.

Chaosdruid (talk) 12:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

  • Fixed --TIAYN (talk) 12:11, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Apologies - I placed (UN) in the header to remind me to change that section as there needs to be a "United Nations (UN)" somewhere near the beginning to explain all the UNs in that section. I obviously forgot to do that - DOH! - if you wouldn't mind accommodating? Chaosdruid (talk) 21:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Fixed. --TIAYN (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I also edited out the "Ambassordorship" usage, although the page Ambasador clearly uses it. :¬) Chaosdruid (talk) 22:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

2nd GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Andrei Gromyko/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Unfortunately, this article is badly lacking with respect to WP:WIAGA criteria 2b (reliable sources) and 3a (broad coverage) and consequently 4 (neutrality). It thus cannot be considered for GA status in its current form.

The main source for the article is Gromyko's memoirs. But this is a WP:PRIMARY source and a very problematic one at that. All memoirs of political figures are inherently self-serving and unreliable. That goes for Soviets figures and Americans, communists and capitalists, everyone. While an occasional mention of a reaction or quote from memoirs can be good, it's simply unacceptable for whole swaths of the article (including 36 consecutive footnotes!) to be sourced only to memoirs. (I've written a number of political biographies here in WP, and I restrict memoir use to an absolute minimum.)

Gromyko was one of the most well-known Kremlin figures and there are plenty of third-party sources regarding him. Just to point to one, there are literally hundreds of stories involving Gromyko in the New York Times archives, including this long profile when he died.

The neutrality of the article also comes into question a bit, when claims like "During his twenty-eight years as Minister of Foreign Affairs Gromyko supported the policy of disarmament" and statements like "Disarmament is the ideal of Socialism" are taken at face value. Third-party sources are needed to establish exactly what Gromyko supported or didn't, not Gromyko himself!

Many key aspects of Gromyko's career are ignored or gone too quickly by here. It's not made clear that Gromyko's rapid ascent to prominence in 1939 was as a consequence of so many being wiped out by Stalin's purges (Darrell Hammer, USSR: The Politics of Oligarch). How exactly Gromyko survived the rest of the Stalin years needs explication. And what was his reaction to Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin? What was his reaction to the Soviet suppression of the revolts in Hungary and later in Czechoslovakia and Poland? The steps in Gromyko's party career seem to be missing – he was a candidate member of the Central Committee in 1952 and a full member in 1956. But although very well known in the West, he wasn't really an inner member or part of the top leadership until his sudden elevation to the Politburo in 1973. This promotion reflected a change in the balance of power between the government and the party that was significant at the time (Hammer). It also got Gromyko a top dacha for the first time (Hendrick Smith, The Russians). SALT I is mentioned but not the prolonged back-and-forth that Kissinger and Gromyko had about it. Nor are the attitudes of Soviet leaders towards Gromyko noted; both Khrushchev and Brezhnev made Gromyko the butt of jokes told to Americans (Kalb brothers, Kissinger). And these are just a few things I see missing based on a glance at books I happen to have on my shelves at home. A good research job on Gromyko's life and career will find much more.

Reviewer: Wasted Time R (talk) 07:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)