Talk:Anglo-Burmese people

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Unreferenced article[edit]

I have tagged this article as unreferenced, because despite its length, it has no citations (inline) and sources to back up many claims made. Editors who are experienced in finding citations and referencing should do so by following procedures at Wikipedia:Citing sources. Thanks. Hintha 23:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So just who in 2010 is "Anglo-Burmese" (or "Anglo-Burman")?[edit]

In Category talk:Anglo-Burmans, Anglo-Burmese people is cited as explaining Category:Anglo-Burmans (in addition to Category:British people of Burmese descent). So I decided to take a look at this article.

The article starts (with my emphases):

The Anglo-Burmese, also known as the Anglo-Burmans, are a community of Eurasians of Burmese and European descent, and emerged as a distinct community through mixed relations (sometimes permanent, sometimes temporary) between the British (whether English, Scots or Welsh) and other European settlers and Bamar from 1826 until 1948 when Burma gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Today, this small but influential Eurasian community is dispersed throughout the world [...].

"Community" can mean many things, but it does strongly suggest some sort of social cohesiveness. (If it lacks this, then we might as well say ''The Anglo-Burmese, also known as the Anglo-Burmans, are Eurasians of Burmese and European descent etc etc.) Anyway, it's strongly suggested that these Anglo-Burmese/Burmans aren't merely people of mixed Burmese/Burman and British/English ancestry.

The article continues:

The most famous Anglo-Burmans today are to be found outside of Burma's borders such as Helen (Bollywood actress), the late British television actor Richard Beckinsale, his daughter, film actress Kate Beckinsale and UK TV actress, Samantha Beckinsale, Japanese Music critic Peter Barakan, British TV personality Melanie Sykes and renowned jazz musician Jamie Cullum, his brother, Ben Cullum and former British music star, Annabella Lwin. Alternative musician Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly (né Sam Duckworth) is also Anglo-Burmese. Another famous Anglo-Burman is the daughter of a Burmese princess and an Australian soldier, called June Rose Bellamy (known in Burmese as Yadana Nat Mè). [...]

What's happened to the "community"? Do you have to be in some sort of community to be Anglo-Burmese, or do you merely need to have one or more Burmese great grandparents and one or more British great grandparents?

As I vaguely understand it, Richard Beckinsale merely had one Burmese grandparent, but otherwise wasn't Burmese in the slightest; and his two daughters each merely had one Burmese great grandparent. Does this render them "Anglo-Burman" or "Anglo-Burmese" in any meaningful way?

The second passage above continues:

The sons of Aung San Suu Kyi and Michael Aris, Alexander and Kim, are technically Anglo-Burmese, albeit British born.

Which technicalities are involved here? This seems to imply that they are somehow less Anglo-Burmese than are the sisters Beckinsale. I don't understand this. -- Hoary (talk) 01:32, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really know what to say myself now, I didn't create the Anglo-Burmese article so it may be best ask that user instead. However from what I have established is that the Anlo-Burmese are a historic community that could exist anywhere in the world, esecially in Burma where the population began. I guess you could compare it to the Chinese community in Liverpool which dates back a number of centuries and over time, them and the local white community have integrated. This is obvoiously different to recent immigrants from China to Liverpool and full blooded British-born people of Chinese origin. I don't know exactly where I would place some of these famous people. For definite, the Beckinsales are of Burmese ancestry which would make them accountable to be in the category:British people of Burmese descent. I am not to certain when it comes to Anglo-Burmese, as I don't think any of them would refer to themsleves as one. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 12:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you're certain that Beckinsale was one quarter Burmese, you might add a source to the assertion in his article; currently this assertion is unreferenced.
Let's assume for a moment that he was indeed one quarter Burmese and that his daughters are one eighth Burmese. Nobody has asserted that any of them was born or lived in Burma, spoke/speaks Burmese, enjoys any Burmese (or Anglo-Burmese) activity or custom, etc. They seem merely British people of part-Burmese ancestry (I mean, if even this is true). I see no hint that they are anything other than that.
Incidentally, these assertions that celebs such as this are not only Anglo-Burmese but are the most famous of today's Anglo-Burmese (where? in Burma?) have been in this article for as long as four years. -- Hoary (talk) 14:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I found a passing reference within a rather gushy article on one of his daughters that her father was 1/4 Burmese, though this lacks the detail asserted within the article. ¶ In view of what's written here about the need for evidence for labeling people by categories of "ethnicity" etc (which I presume includes ancestry), I've just now done quite a bit of depopulating of both categories, for example removing both categories from the articles on the brothers Cullum. -- Hoary (talk) 02:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does "Anglo-Burmese" include British people who happen to be of minor Burmese descent (e.g. the Beckinsale family), or doesn't it? If it does, let the article say so clearly. If it doesn't, then let's cut the (mostly unsourced) list of minor British celebs from the last part of the article. -- Hoary (talk) 02:32, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

June Rose Bellamy[edit]

We were told that among famous Anglo-Burmese people:

Another is the daughter of a Burmese princess and an Australian soldier, called [[June Rose Bellamy]] (known in Burmese as Yadana Nat Mè).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Burma/konbau13.htm|title=The Royal Ark: Burma - [[Konbaung Dynasty|The Konbaung Dynasty]]|last=Buyers|first=Christopher|year=2002-2006|accessdate=2007-04-05}}</ref> Today she lives in [[Italy]] and was once the cream of Rangoon society during the 1950s and 1960s and is a former wife of the late General [[Ne Win]].

The last sentence is directly ripped off from the geneological page cited. (Slow connection; try this Wayback Machine copy instead.) In contrast to most of the British slebs listed, she actually sounds significantly Burmese. However, there's no article about her. If she's notable, write an article about her. Meanwhile, she doesn't merit listing here. -- Hoary (talk) 02:32, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Present-day[edit]

I deleted the sentence, Most who remained after 1962 adopted Burmese names, and converted to Buddhism to protect their families, jobs and assets, because it has no reference and it is insulting to Burmese culture. I don't know who the stupid wrote that sentence. Nobody is need to convert to Buddhism to protect their families, jobs, assets or whatever. Burmese have never forced others to convert their religion to Buddhism. There are so many Muslim, Hindu and other non-Buddhist and non-Burmese people are living and working peacefully in Yangon. Another sentence also misinformed or uncleanly written that Burma was part of India Empire. Burma was part of India only after Brutish colonizations cos British merged Burma into India for a period of time. Otherwise, any part of Burma was never occupied by India but Burma occupied parts of India and Bangladesh, Manipur,Assam and Chittagong just before British colonization. 203.81.165.145 (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anglo-Burmese population distribution by administrative divisions?[edit]

Can anyone find a source where distribution of Europeans and Anglo-Burmese by administrative divisions in 1931/1941 censuses are shown? And some modern info about the same? I'm interested in knowing the numbers of Europeans and Anglo-Burmese in Shan, Kayah, Kachin, Mon states and in Tanitharyi (Tenasserim) regions and in corresponding regions during British Burma period (1931/1941). I've googled a lot, but to no avail. RickyRr (talk) 10:40, 10 June 2016 (UTC)RickyRRRickyRr (talk) 10:40, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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