This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article states, On the morning of Friday 19 May, Anne Boleyn was judicially executed, not upon Tower Green despite the fact it is the site of the execution memorial, but rather, according to historian Eric Ives, on a scaffold erected on the north side of the White Tower, in front of what is now the Waterloo Barracks.
However the Tower Green article lists Anne Boleyn as a noble executed there. Both claims are sourced. Who is right?
Maybe we should consider the evidence that Ives presents? However, looking at a contemporary plan of the Tower, the green can be seen stretching right round from the chapel, to the north of the White Tower? So maybe it's just that the green was that much bigger then? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:40, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Should we present it as other similar disputed facts? Add a sourced sentence to this article like, "Other sources maintain she was indeed executed on Tower Green" and the converse to Tower Green? Hoof Hearted (talk) 13:59, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure the facts are disputed. Ives just seems to be more accurate? It's like disputing the location of this because the island isn't there any more? But what actual proof, or supporting evidence, does Ives have? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:23, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
It's clear that Eric Ives is a noted historian of the Tudor period, and in researching this project I've read that his The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn is considered the bible of her life. I found the the book here, and he has extensive sources (Notes for Chapter 23, note 14 lists 8 accounts (p. 419), also Chapter 24 note 1 (p.423)).
Forgive my ignorance on the Tower geography; I couldn't get an idea of the scale of this map. But isn't the Tower Green a completely different area than the "north side of the White Tower, in front of the Waterloo Barracks"? Hoof Hearted (talk) 20:06, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
The Henry VIII article states that their second child was Henry, Duke of Cornwall, born August/September 1534, whereas this article states "Miscarried son" born 1535. (Two of Katherine of Aragon's short-lived children were also named Henry Duke of Cornwall). Can anyone confirm the birth year and name of Anne's second child ? RGCorris (talk) 22:27, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Don't know the answer to that - but the article is a bit of a mess on still-births (if there were any) and miscarriages. The lead, the article proper and the infobox all say different things, and I don't think should that one source's "speculation" should be given undue weight against any general consensus. davidships [cannot log in at present] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 12:02, 11 February 2014 (UTC)Davidships (talk) 20:39, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
There seems to be a lack of clarity about marriage dates in the article. The article refers to a second marriage between Anne and Henry, but it is unclear in the article as to when/where a first marriage may have occurred ... I recall the David Starkey TV series claimed that the relationship was probably consummated in France prior to the Jan. wedding, though I don't know what his proofs are for this conclusion, apart from the early September birth.
The article says " Soon after returning to Dover, Henry and Anne married in a secret ceremony. She soon became pregnant and, to legalise the first wedding considered to be unlawful at the time, there was a second wedding service, also private in accordance with The Royal Book which took place in London on 25 January 1533.". If the January marriage was a second ceremony, when was the first ceremony and why do we believe it happened?
There is also confusion as to whether the article claims that Anne was CERTAINLY pregnant at the time of the January marriage, stating "there is no doubt that Anne was pregnant with Elizabeth (born on 7 September 1533) when she and Henry hastily and secretly married" .... but later saying "The child was born slightly prematurely on 7 September 1533." . Surely either Anne was undoubtedly pregnant in January OR the child was premature OR we simply don't know (and probably that Anne & Henry themselves would not have known with CERTAINTY that Anne was pregnant in January, late Jan-early Sept = approx 7.5 months).
There seems another claim in the article which seems dubious, namely "since any child born before she was queen would not be able to succeed to the throne." ... surely it is NOT the case that Anne needed to be Queen when she gave birth to Elizabeth to secure legitimacy, merely that she needed to have a legally recognised marriage to Henry before the birth .... being crowned would be merely the 'icing on the cake' in terms of public recognition of her position.
I have tidied some phrasing and renamed the 'Marriage' section to 'Premarital Role and Marriage', since the section seems MORE about her premarital political role than about the marriage itself, perhaps someone can think of a better section heading?
I don't have access to book sources at present but hope someone who knows the subject better might clarify these matters.Pincrete (talk) 17:03, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I have made some minor changes to the assertion that Anne was definitely pregnant at the time of her marriage, since the original sentence "Confusing the issue of whether or not Anne and Henry had a premarital sexual relationship is the fact that there is no doubt that Anne was pregnant with Elizabeth when she and Henry hastily and secretly married" This is a nonsense (unless we think either that someone OTHER than Henry was the father or that "The Virgin Queen" was an Immaculate Conception!).
Perhaps anyway, these speculations belong in the marriage or birth sections.Pincrete (talk) 19:41, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
This subsection begins "According to author and Tudor historian Alison Weir, Thomas Cromwell plotted Anne's downfall while feigning illness and detailing the plot 20–21 April 1536." There is no citation to Alison Weir, and what on earth does "detailing the plot 20–21 April 1536" mean? I have added some tags and hope someone can tidy this up. Moonraker (talk) 16:21, 7 July 2014 (UTC)