Talk:Antwerp

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Name in Spanish[edit]

Why is the Spanish name of Antwerp here??? I understand the French name beacause a part of Belgium speak French.

Belgium was part of the Spanish Netherlands before, that's why. --Starstriker7(Say hior see my works) 12:44, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Come on, that's silly. It hasn't been ruled by Spain in 300 years. Spanish is no longer a relevant language in this city. 71.156.15.164 (talk) 00:25, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
It's not all that silly. The Spanish language may not be relevant in Antwerp (nor is French, which is spoken in a different part of Belgium), but Spanish rule plays a crucial role in the history of the city. (Antwerp remained Spanish during the Dutch revolt, see the articles introduction.) Jaho (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
To give an example of why it's not silly, the man who designed the cathedral at Granada in Andalucia (Spain), trained with the St. Lucas guild in Antwerp. There was an enormous exchange of art and culture between the Southern Netherlands and Spain during the reigns of Charles V and Philip II. Any serious student of art history would need to know that Amberes means Antwerp. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I think the French "Sinjeur" is more likely source. The Spanish form is related, but not the direct relation. Court in the Netherlands was French, even in Habsburg (Charles V and Philips II) times. 88.159.71.34 (talk) 20:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Why does the population between 1545 and 1570 decline by 60,000?[edit]

Why does the population between 1545 and 1570 decline by 60,000 as stated by the statistics in the article? 81.151.89.234 22:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Quote from the article: "On November 4, 1576, the Spanish soldiery plundered the town during what was called The Spanish Fury, and 6000 citizens were massacred. Eight hundred houses were burnt down, and over two millions sterling of damage was wrought in the town on that occasion."

Many of the people fled north to the Netherlands.

Rubens is a Baroque painter[edit]

It was claimed that Rubens is not a Baroque painter. This is quite bizarre. See e.g. here:

" The Flemish painter Peter Paul Rubens is considered the most important artist of the 17th century, whose style became an international definition of the animated, exuberantly sensuous aspects of baroque painting. "

Or here:

" Estilo: Barroco Centroeuropeo"

Or finally:

"Flemish painter who was the greatest exponent of Baroque painting's dynamism, vitality, and sensuous exuberance."

I think we can safely conclude that Rubens was a baroque painter ;-) Fram 14:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

First Skyscrapper in Europe?[edit]

Is it true, that the "Farmers tower" in Antwerp was the first skyscrapper in europe? Maybe an interesting information!?--Manfreeed 19:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

the official english name is "KBC Tower" 194.78.199.56 15:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Are you paid by KBC?

Why include the French name at all?[edit]

I don't see why people who read this article in English should be given the French, Spanish, or, why not, Italian, Portuguese and Latin names of this city in the first place. Parce que le français est une des trois langues officielles en Belgique contrairement à l'italien, l'espagnol, le portugais et le latin !!!!

This article is in English, and the city of Antwerp is Dutch-speaking. Oui, mais la communauté francophone y est très largement répandue It makes sense to use the English name Antwerp Je suis d'accord; and it is essential to state that the official name is Antwerpen mais aussi Anvers. People who want to look for further information will need that name pourquoi ?. But to include the French name of the city might lead people to thinking that the French name is also official ce qui est vrai, and therefore useful for further research. This is especially the case with Belgian towns, as many foreigners tend to believe that Belgium is French-speaking c'est aussi partiellement vrai, or has a French-speaking majority je sens poindre une pointe de flamingandisme, or uses French as its national official language. None of this is actually true ni complètement faux.

Leaving out the French (and Spanish) name would also bring the articles about Dutch-speaking places more in correlation with other articles on the English version of Wikipedia. The articles on London and Scotland do not state the French and German names. The articles on Geneva and Milan do not include the German names for these cities. And the articles on French-speaking provinces in Wallonia don't contain the Dutch names of "Mons" and "Hainaut". So why should we make an exception for Dutch places? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.197.33.214 (talk) 18:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

To state that the French name "Anvers" is not official (????) is slightly erroneous: it may not be officially used within the municipality, but the nation of Belgium is officially bilingual (!!!!), and so the central Belgian government must refer to it both in Dutch and French. Furthermore, the Spanish name is historically significant, since Belgium was part of the Spanish Netherlands some four hundred years ago. Djcartwright 23:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

And as for the reverse: at least Namur (city) lists "Namen" as the Dutch language version in the intro. I don't think it is unreasonable for major Belgian cities to list both versions, as long as the local name comes first, and the text explains explicitly or omplicitly which language is the local language. Fram 20:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The introduction to Brussels has the city's German name! French is not a foreign language in Belgium, I don't see why all cities shouldn't have both versions. It's easy enough to tell from the rest of the article what the local language is.GSTQ 04:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


Let me say that I am in favour of including the Spanish and French names of the city. Both Amberes and Anvers have seen considerable historic use and it is useful to make it clear that these different names all refer to the same place. Obviously there are those who wish to expunge all trace of the past but this won't do. Augusta2 00:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Diamonds[edit]

Isnt the place famouse for diamond trade? Cacophony 03:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Antwerp is the only city in the world with four diamond bourses, three for gemstones and one for boart. Augusta2 00:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Should this information be included in the article? I came here hoping to read something about the Antwerp diamond trade and was disappointed not to find anything. -Sarfa 05:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
It most definitely should, it's pretty much the only recent thing antwerp is renowned for.. i'll try to find some interesting articles about it and add some more info here.. Fisheke 08:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I came to find out about the diamonds too. WHY Antwerp, of all places? 2.25.46.254 (talk) 20:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Weapon crest[edit]

Are you sure that is the weapon crest/coat of arms? I live in Antwerp and have never seen it before, I think it's this: http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5237/untitledoh2.png

Educational institutions[edit]

College is not an adequate translation of "hogeschool". The closest UK English offers is "polytechnical college" but since the transformation of all polytechnical colleges into universities in that country, one hesitates to use the term. Personally I would let "hogeschool" stand, but if it must be translated I suggest using "College of Further/Higher Education". It should be pointed out that the Flemish hogescholen have adopted the Ba(chelor)Ma(ster) structure. Augusta2 00:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree. A "Technical university" is +/- similar to a Hogeschool. Idem for a college. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.65.79.196 (talk) 18:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
It's a tricky subject. What we belgians call a university can be called a haute-école in france (for example), while a hogeschool is more like a université. While a college in the UK is often what we call a "faculteit" of a university. Polytechnical is also not to evident, considering that most of the courses in a hogeschool are nothing polytechnical (polytechnical in belgium means "engineering"). BUT.. i know of at least one hogeschool (GroepT) that officially uses the name "university college" in all their english communication. One possible solution is to just use the english translation the instituion itself uses? Fisheke (talk) 13:01, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Language[edit]

I don't want to start anything, but I just reverted an edit that changed all instances of "Dutch" language to "Flemish". I don't mind either way, and would accept it completely if discussing pronunciation, word choice, Flemish language literature and theatre and the "language on the street", but it seems to be a touchy enough point for some that I think consensus should be reached. Somewhat unrelated, I also reverted changing "Scheldt" to "Schelde". This is the English Wikpedia, so the English name of the river should be used. Ideas, anyone? --Stomme (talk) 06:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The language is Dutch, not Flemish, so I agree with your reverts (also for Scheldt). Fram (talk) 09:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I also completely agree with Dutch instead of Flemish, which is officially just a dialect. Also the correct name of the river is Scheldt in English (and Escaut in French). Fisheke (talk) 01:34, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I just wanted there to be some documentation on the talk page in case the issue comes up again. --Stomme (talk) 01:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Two points. A woman I met in Antwerp told me that she was from the Netherlands, about fifty miles from Antwerp. Dutch and Flemish, as she called it, are mutually comprehensible, indeed almost identical, "but they can tell at once I'm Dutch", she said. A more jocular one, but perhaps worthy of inclusion in the article, is that there is a tradition that Adam and Eve spoke the Antwerp dialect in the Garden of Eden, and you come across one or two "Adam and Eve" and "Eden" bars and cafes because of this. Ausseagull (talk) 18:56, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


Flemish and Dutch are significantly different. They sometimes don't even understand one another while speaking . Flemish and especially the local Antwerp dialect is incorrect Dutch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.196.67.45 (talk) 09:25, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

There are probably plenty of people from New England who would be immediately identified as Yankees in the South. Put a Brummie and a Geordie in the same room and they wouldn't find it easy to have a conversation, even though they both speak dialects of English. There are undoubtedly differences between Flemish and Dutch, if you define the one as the language spoken south of the border and the other as the language spoken north of the border. There are also plenty of differences between the language spoken in West Flanders and that spoken in the Limburg, nonetheless for serious philologists they are all Dutch. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 21:59, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

True enough, every local I've ever met in Flanders calls their language 'Nederlands', and as a fluent Dutch speaker, I would say that 'Flemish' is so close to Dutch that any misunderstanding is a result of accent, not dialect. Just like the above Brummie/Geordie example. 21stcenturypolitix (talk) 17:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

St. Anna's Tunnel[edit]

I was wondering where the St. Anna's Tunnel is mentioned in this article. It does not seem to be. I just uploaded a photo on wikicommons that can be found |here if somebody wants to use it. Meanwhile, if I get down to searching for the article on this tunnel and dont find one, I will write it up. Prashanthns (talk) 20:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

How is the infobox working for this article? I couldn't find out how to update the population figure.--Pjred (talk) 07:21, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Jews[edit]

"Antwerp has an extensive network of synagogues, shops, schools and organizations, within the Machsike Hadas community."

Suppose the meaning of this sentence might be conciderably more clear, if before "shops, etc." the words "exclusively Jewish" would be inserted. VKing (talk) 09:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Antwerp Massive[edit]

I've heard the phrase "Antwerp Massive" in some music I listen to; looking it up it seems a reggae and dancehall movement based in Antwerp. So why no mention in the article of this? Am I mistaken somewhere? Dragosian (talk) 10:58, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

You're not mistaken, it is just not notable at all. We don't list every shop, movement, group, band, artist, gallery, venue, festival, ... in Antwerp, only the truly notable ones. Fram (talk) 11:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Righty o. That's fair. 114.76.74.129 (talk) 12:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

WW1[edit]

Antwerp and the surrounding areas had a huge importance in the beginnings of WWI with British troops committed in attempts to bolster Belgian defenses. Eventually they were overwhelmed, or at least fell back, leaving Germany open to even the possibility of invading Britain. Yet I do not see any mention of this on the page. If I am looking at the wrong page or something, my bad, so could an admin please tell me so? Thanks. Uberlieder (talk) 23:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Choosing a likely subtopic, alert the Military History WikiProject with a link to this Talk page and your query. -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Unusable link[edit]

At the foot of this entry is the external website "Tourism Antwerp" which links to www.visitantwerp.be. When I click this link I am prompted for a user name and password. I therefore feel that this link should be removed as per WP:ELNO. Careful With That Axe, Eugene Hello... 16:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Additional: Antwerp timeline links in reference section are broken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.88.157 (talk) 06:39, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Skippers[edit]

Perhaps the article should mention the red-light district, "The Quarter of the Skippers". It's on the tourist trail, but I only saw it in the day time and it was rather drab. Someone got it wrong, too - "the Quarter of the Kippers", they called it. Ausseagull (talk) 19:01, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Should there be a heading on the economy?[edit]

In order to understand monetary issues there? Iwanttoeditthissh (talk) 07:19, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

first stock exchange[edit]

in 1555 there was the the begining of joint stock companies and things culminating in dutch east india company in the 1600's decade. in my 1970 world enclycledpia i used to have in it said mentioning of this. 76.253.142.197 (talk) 22:00, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Photos[edit]

A couple of the photos are duplicated and should be consolidated.Mwinog2777 (talk) 17:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

File:Museum Aan de Stroom Maurice van Bruggen.JPG Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Museum Aan de Stroom Maurice van Bruggen.JPG, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
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This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I can't see why it should be deleted. It has been released for public use by the owner, see the page. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 22:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
The problem is not with the picture (which was uploaded to commons under GFDL), but with the architectural copyrights of the building. In Belgium, images of buildings are considered derivative works of the building itself. A similar problem exists with the atomium in Brussels, and consequently you can't upload images of that building to commons. Well, I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I make of it. Jaho (talk) 16:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Or as the template on the deleted page summarizes it: Image is of a modern building in Antwerp, Belgium. There is no freedom of panorama (FOP) in Belgium. (See also Commons:Freedom of panorama and Commons:Freedom of panorama#Belgium.) Jaho (talk) 23:53, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Removed reference to the deleted image from the article now. Jaho (talk) 00:33, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Removing refimprove tag[edit]

The article carries the template {This article needs additional citations for verification} since october 2011. Some sections certainly should have additional references, but they're separately tagged (also since october 2011). The article as a whole has (as of this writing) 38 references, and many sections are adequately referenced. I'm removing the {refimprove} tag from the article's heading, as I feel it's redundant and/or no longer needed. Jaho (talk) 00:23, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Unclear text:[edit]

In the lede, the sentence "However the Brussels-Capital Region is considered as the largest Belgian city internationally" appears. I realize that the writer is probably not a native English speaker, and I'm happy to edit the sentence, I just can't figure out what it's supposed to mean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TCSaint (talkcontribs) 16:21, 17 June 2013 (UTC)