Talk:Aphthous ulcer

Contagious?

I get these things like crazy, but no girl I've ever made out with has ever had to deal with them. If anyone can find a source on the non-contagious nature of the condition, please mention it early on. Cold sores CAN be passed on because they are viral, but canker sores can't because they are an immune system peculiarity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neveos (talk • contribs) 07:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Coldsore Vs Cold Sore

Some of these are not true!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.147.7.113 (talk) 02:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Why does "Cold sore" redirect here but "Coldsore" (one word) redirects to Herpes AFIK doctors use coldsore to refer exclusively to herpes pustules not to aphthous ulcers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 06:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Images

There's simply too many, or at least too many in one area. They're even crowding out the headings (though even if they didn't, it's annoying to have half a screen taken up purely by images). Can we at least cut one off? Preferrably a couple, as multiple blurry images of the same thing don't really add anything. 24.76.169.85 (talk) 07:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Y Done - I've made the images smaller (290 to 150px) and forced them over to right side to avoid interupting the text headings.[1] David Ruben ^Talk 12:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Don't think it should be added

I was going to replace the following, but after a bit of research there doesn't seem to be much use of the compound - there's only the one study on pubmed, wikipedia doesn't have an article, and the pubmed abstract is 10 years old with no follow-up. Ergo, I don't think there's much point. WLU (talk) 17:20, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Some dentists precribe the drug for recurrent aphthous ulcers. Debacterol is a liquid mixture of sulfonated phenolic compounds and sulfuric acid that work as a topical debriding agent that forms a natural barrier over the ulcer site.Rhodus NL, Bereuter J (December 1998). "An evaluation of a chemical cautery agent and an anti-inflammatory ointment for the treatment of recurrent aphthous stomatitis: a pilot study". Quintessence Int 29 (12): 769–73. PMID 10196853. 

it's a pilot study anyway. The best one could hope for out of it is that further research may have significant findings. Results from a pilot study should not be used in a encyclopedia unless maybe it is in support of a phenomena that is already understood intuitively and just doesn't have any scientific studies performed yet.65.10.148.213 (talk) 04:18, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Treatment section tidyup

<copied over from User talk:Davidruben> I ended up re-writing the treatment section, thus, which deleted your reference to UK treatment options. I basically removed everything that didn't have a source, unfortunately that included the text you inserted here. My WP:PROVEIT approach tends to be a bit scorched earth, I think most of the information is still there in a more general form. I'll be adding a bit of text back, but after that edit I think I'm done; feel free to re-insert. I ended up with an edit conflict and over-wrote (worst collaborator ever!), I don't know if you prefer my more generic version, or your more specific one. Please feel free to expand if you'd like. WLU (talk) 17:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm done, earth is scorched, feel free to replace. WLU (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I approve of the tidyup :-) I had only reinserted topical soothing agents, which in turn had been a past sort-out of multiple brand-name articles which I converted into redirects. So see 11 March 2008 overall work on article and then 17 March 2008 as the brand name articles made into redirects.

I've reordered your well sourced material to give a step up through treatments (vs tetracyclines being mentioned near the top). Your WP:PROVEIT approach spurred me to try and find links for the OTC management of oral ulcers, which forms by far the greatest treatment of this common condition, albeit out of the oversight of us doctors and with very little formal supportive evidence ("lack of evidence of effectiveness" of course not being "evidence of lack of effect"), still I managed to come up with some official and well respected UK links (as well as NEJM) refs to confirm usage.

Let me know what you think :-) David Ruben ^Talk 03:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks good, I re-wrote it some more and tried to chunk the information a bit as well as adding some more involved references on the evidence for some OTC stuff. One thing I did change was to remove the brand names of medications - if the sources name them that's OK, but they're not going to be useful world-wide. In my mind the active ingredient is the important information (plus I dislike putting up brand names if I can avoid it because of a generational knee-jerk anti-corporate sentiment). Is the weasel word tag still needed? I haven't read through from top to bottom.

I love PROVEIT for it's ability to kick-start sourcing and expansion : ) Also a great shortcut title. WLU (talk) 15:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Vast improvement in structure and clarity of description - well done - I must remember to consider asking you to review some of my future convoluted article edits :-). David Ruben ^Talk 19:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem, I like copy-editing when I've got the time but finding the time is difficult these days. --WLU (talk) 19:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The linked page for the reference to L-Lysine at NIH (footnote 33) does not cite lysine as a potential treatment of cankersores/aphthous ulcers, but rather for cold sores/herpetic lesions, since the NIH page deals with both topics. I suggest that this reference and recommendation be removed or at a minimum toned down. The NIH page speculates that cankersores might be caused by a virus, and if it is, and that virus is in the herpes family and lysine is actually effective for reducing the symptoms of herpetic lesions, then lysine might also help cankersores, but there's an awful lot of 'if' and 'might' in that line of argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.212.165.232 (talk) 18:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Stress and fatigue not proven as causes of outbreaks

Doctors use these 'causes' whenever they can't find a cure. They make the same unproven claims for herpes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.193.144.79 (talk) 18:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Lack of sleep is exactly what causes mouth ulcer outbreak for me. Rogerdpack (talk) 15:41, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Mystery and propolis

Why are aphhous ulcers so mysterious? Why are the causes so unclear and the remedies so general? Is it because scientists did not spend enough time studying aphhous ulcers or is it because there is not enough money for researching this problem?

I am affected by aphthous ulcers at least three to four times a year. In the past I was using a solution made of propolis and alcohol. At first it worked but after a while I started to realize that the benefits vanished. In the Italian version of this article propolis is mentioned. In the English version of this article, propolis is not mentioned at all. I would like to know if propolis can be useful in speeding up the healing process of aphthous ulcers.

ICE77 (talk) 20:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Dunno about that. I always use ice to get rid of mine. Grab an ice cube, press it against the sore until you can't stand it, then take it away. Wait a minute, then do it again. Do it a few times, and in a day or two they'll be gone. Plus, it numbs it up pretty well. Keyok (talk) 05:24, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

See Magic mouthwash for a preparation that some people find useful. It recently worked for me. Lou Sander (talk) 09:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Causes

The causes section seems to say that SLS does and does not cause these sores. Maybe it would be helpful to change the wording to be more accurate? I.e. causation versus correlation? --Jp07 (talk) 05:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Walnuts are a known cause, according to the UCSF Oral Medicine faculty. Watch that fudge at Christmas time!

• I think it´s short of inadequate to gather all kind of ulcers in the mouth as afte. Afte are considered idiopatic recurrent ulcerations - hence of unknown etiology. In prehistoric times they were called `aftae recurrentes `- recurrent afte - so they could be distinguished from ulcerations of known etiology.  ;-) jmak (talk) 09:31, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

The causes section should mention Behçet's Disease. Mouth sores are a hallmark symptom of this disorder. I would add it myself, but still have not figured out the whole reference-citing thing. (References for mouth sores in Behçet's Disease can be found in the Wikipedia article of the same name.) Leha Carpenter (talk) 17:54, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I've done as you suggest, but I think there's a risk that this article will become unfocused if all causes are listed; jmak makes an excellent point in highlighting the need for determining whether common practice is to consider only idiopathic oral ulcers to be "aphthous", or all ulcers with similar gross characteristics. -- Scray (talk) 20:48, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I see no mention of B12 deficiency in the article. Recent studies suggest that B12 deficiency can cause aphthous ulcers. For example, see Effectiveness of Vitamin B12 in Treating Recurrent Aphthous Stomatitis and Aphthous ulcers and vitamin B12 deficiency.67.58.84.150 (talk) 18:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Smoking

It´s noticible you revert smoking when stopping smoking is a well known factor to precipitate afte jmak (talk) 09:10, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

phonetic?

How would one pronounce this?

AP-thus, with a hard 'th,' as in 'with.' 148.177.1.216 (talk) 14:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I attempted to transcribe the pronunciation you describe. dictionary.com gives parochial pronunciations so it's unclear what they mean. I omitted suprasegmentals which someone may want to add. -Craig Pemberton 19:10, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Commercial treatments

There is a product called Canker Cure which comes in the form of pills. It not only heals existing canker sores but also prevents new ones from occuring, when taken on a regular basis. I've had canker sores all my life, occuring about about once per month. Since I started using this product 2 years ago I haven't had any. Their website goes into detail about how the product works on the molecular level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.1.120 (talk) 19:39, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

A new editor added this section:

The use of Canker-Rid has been reported by many to quickly and effectively treat the canker sores.

Canker-Rid users also report that taking Queen's Delight has drastically reduced or eliminated canker sores from occuring.

I think this needs some independent verification before it goes in here. Bhimaji (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

While this cannot be added to the page because it's impossible for me to provide independent verification, Kanka is amazing stuff. It coats the thing and keeps it from hurting for quite a while. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.39.163.151 (talk) 04:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

If this stuff is good than one should be able to find an RCT. --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I recently started using a commercial stick-on patch called "Canker Cover". I've tried every treatment under the sun across the last 35 years and this is the first thing which I could call a "miracle cure". The pain stops in seconds and the ulcer is gone in 18 hours. I don't have any scientific references but this stuff is going to obsolete every other treatment, methinks. 64.47.56.210 (talk) 21:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

If it is so go all we need is a small study to show effectiveness. So as that is published we can add it.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Inaccurate

This page needs lots of work. We need to base it on a couple good literature reviews.

• Altenburg A, Zouboulis CC (September 2008). "Current concepts in the treatment of recurrent aphthous stomatitis". Skin Therapy Lett. 13 (7): 1–4. PMID 18839042. http://www.skintherapyletter.com/2008/13.7/1.html. 

--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

"Ulcerous ulcer"?

"An aphthous ulcer, [...] The term aphtha means ulcer; [...]" An ulcerous ulcer.. Wouldn't the correct term be Aphthous Stomatitis? 80.202.121.148 (talk) 22:38, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

How to diagnose the cause ?

Hi all,

I was wondering, is there a way to diagnose the cause of the Aphtous ulcer ?

I failed to have found a doctor that knew of tests to perform in order to better know what causes the wounds.

Thanks.

Talgalili (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Use of glutamine (L-glutamine) to treat or prevent

I believe certain studies have shown the benefits; some of them relate to people who got the sores during cancer treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9762946?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9722068?dopt=Abstract —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 (talk) 13:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

This edit

I removed the new content because it represented original research and, in presenting medical recommendations rather than being directed to improving the article content itself, violated Talk page guidelines. I meant to simply revert, but hit rollback instead. I'm commenting here as a surrogate for the edit summary I would have entered. -- Scray (talk) 02:00, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Link to Canker Sore Toothpaste?

I added a link to a canker sore toothpaste and Doc James removed it for good reason (I wasn't following external link guidelines). I'd like to get feedback as to whether it is useful to add to the external links section of the page. I think the value of the link is the 172 reviews of the toothpaste, many of which indicate that the toothpaste solved their canker sore problem. I too am someone who had his canker sore problem solved by changing to a toothpaste without SLS (though not the linked-to one), so I'm biased. And, reviews like this don't come close to comparing to a real scientific study. But, I think they contribute something to the canker sore body of knowledge. Thoughts?

Jrennie (talk) 02:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Health claims need to be based on WP:MEDRS. As ulcer resolve on their own without a control group there is no way to decide if this is effective. Not appropriate as an external link either. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the application of WP:EL here - it's a good illustration of the value of this WP guidance. Testimonials are not reliable. If this really works, it should be studied, published in a reliable source, and then cited. -- Scray (talk) 03:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

In particular, WP:ELNO #5 specifically says that such a link should not be included in the external links section. Thanks for the poitners. -- Jrennie (talk) 22:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

links to PubMed

Material inserted on Talk page without discussion of how it might be used in the article -- Scray (talk) 02:21, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

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PMID 17848886

PMID 17850936 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.165.11.148 (talk) 16:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Guidelines for diagnosis and management of aphthous stomatitis PMID 17848886

Femiano F, Lanza A, Buonaiuto C, Gombos F, Nunziata M, Piccolo S, Cirillo N.

Guidelines for diagnosis and management of aphthous stomatitis

PMID 17848886

Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2007 Aug;26(8):728-32.

Stomatology Department, II University of Medicines and Surgery, Naples, Italy. femiano@libero.it

Abstract

Aphthous ulcers are the most common oral mucosal lesions in the general population. These often are recurrent and periodic lesions that cause clinically significant morbidity. Many suggestions have been proposed but the etiology of recurrent aphthous stomatitis (RAS) is unknown. Several precipitating factors for aphthous ulcers appear to operate in subjects with genetic predisposition. An autoimmune or hypersensitivity mechanism is widely considered possible. Sometimes aphthous ulcers can be the sign of systemic diseases, so it is essential to establish a correct diagnosis to determine suitable therapy. Before initiating medications for aphthous lesions, clinicians should determine whether well-recognized causes are contributing to the disease and these factors should be corrected. Various treatment modalities are used, but no therapy is definitive. Topical medications, such as antimicrobial mouth-washes and topical corticosteroids (dexamethasone, triamcinolone, fluocinonide, or clobetasol), can achieve the primary goal to reduce pain and to improve healing time but do not improve recurrence or remission rates. Systemic medications can be tried if topical therapy is ineffective.

PMID: 17848886 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

cf PMID 17850936 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.165.11.148 (talk) 16:48, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Scully C, Porter S.

Oral mucosal disease: recurrent aphthous stomatitis

Br J Oral Maxillofac Surg. 2008 Apr;46(3):198-206. Epub 2007 Sep 11.

University College London, Eastman Dental Institute, London, UK. c.scully@eastman.ucl.ac.uk

Abstract

Recurrent aphthous stomatitis (RAS; aphthae; canker sores) is common worldwide. Characterised by multiple, recurrent, small, round, or ovoid ulcers with circumscribed margins, erythematous haloes, and yellow or grey floors, it usually presents first in childhood or adolescence. Its aetiology and pathogenesis is not entirely clear, but there is genetic predisposition, with strong associations with interleukin genotypes, and sometimes a family history. Diagnosis is on clinical grounds alone, and must be differentiated from other causes of recurrent ulceration, particularly Behçet disease - a systemic disorder in which aphthous-like ulcers are associated with genital ulceration, and eye disease (particularly posterior uveitis). Management remains unsatisfactory, as topical corticosteroids and most other treatments only reduce the severity of the ulceration, but do not stop recurrence.

PMID: 17850936 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.165.11.148 (talk) 16:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

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"Study on 10,000 people suffering from canker sores" - unreliable?

Source: http://www.aftazen.com/discover-our-study-on-canker-sores

The statistics of this informal "study" are taken from voluntary response. Subjects are not asked when their condition has broken out strongest, but rather, simply what age the subjects are at the time of the submission. For the record, I don't think lots of kids are going to take the time to fill out this (60 second) survey.

See for yourself: http://www.aftazen.com/join-our-study-on-canker-sores

X-Fi6 (talk) 01:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)