Talk:Apple strudel

Olive Oil and Butter

This diff shows the removal, with the comment "absolutely not", of my addition of the alternative use of olive oil in the recipe. Now, bearing in mind that WP is not a cookbook I'm not about to get all reverty about it, nor go chasing references, the more so since I do not read gothic fonts and my cookbook is in German and gothic!.

All I wanted to do was to state clearly that olive oil, light flavoured olive oil, is valid in this recipe. I've been making apfelstrudel since 1960, taught by my father who hailed from Wien, and we have never once used butter within the pastry mix, always a tablespoon of light olive oil per strudel. It gives easy elasticity of the dough. We paint the rolled out dough with melted butter, not olive oil, and we paint the finished product with butter before baking. But oil could be used.

There are no absolutes in strudel making! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:43, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I should have noticed that the section says "References"not "notes", though. a ref need not always be to a source, it may also be a genuine footnote. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I understand that you and your father are baking your Apfelstrudel with olive oil, but the German and Austrian Apfelstrudel is not baked with olive oil. The dough should be very thin, and holes are not disregarded in real Austrian Apfelstrudel. The real Apfelstrudel is a culinary masterpiece and it is not made like the imitations around the world, with thick or broken dough layers or phyllo dough or olive oil.

It is not a difference of opinions, it is a culinary tradition we are talking about.

Warrington (talk) 14:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

(after edit conflict)

Please tell me with some precision where Wien is located?

Why are you getting bent out of shape over this? We are talking of cookery, where things differ. The entire article is pretty poor, you know. It has a major need of citations.

Culinary tradition is not absolute, despite your confidence in it. I've never heard of strudel fascism befire.

Please do not insert headings and resign thinsg other editors have written. Leave othr people's comments as they stand. Anything else is bad form Fiddle Faddle (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

It is not fascism, and you are advised to chose your words very carefully. Remember to maintain Wikipedia policy:How to use article talk pages

I did not inserted any headings and modified what other editors have written. We were making the edit in the same time, that is why the two hedings.

Austrians were baking this dish since 1696, and my grandmothers mom was baking it since 1889. What you do with your own Apfelstrudel is not what the Austrian Apfelstrudel is. Austrian Apfelstrudel is an art and is an almost holy dish in Austria, and you can not just go on preparing it in any way like you want or do whatewer you wish. You may add a separate section In other countries and describe other countries picking up on this dish, their preparation picking up on the dish in US or Australia, but that is a copy of the dish and is not the original version. Please do that and you may write about olive oil and other blasfemous ingredients if you wish.

Please may I refer you to ownership of articles? I'm afraid your whole tone seems to be strident. I have no interest in any further attempts at dialogue with you. I perceive that you are threatening me. I am therefore going to walk away form you and not respond to you in any further manner. I will, as is my right as an editor here, edit this article further if I choose to. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I do not own articles, nobody does. This article is written by many people. I'm afraid that your tone started to be stridentand first, calling me a Strudelfascist and the entire article pretty poor. I was not threatening you in any way and you are welcome to edit it if you have the right kwnolege to do so. But you didn't even know where Wienna is on a map.

Vienna is the capital of Austria and is also one of the nine states of Austria. Apfelstrudel is considered to be the national dish of Austria see http://www.holidaycityflash.com/austria/vienna_cuisine.htm http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080325023708AAbzSSY

Savoury Strudels are more often made with oil

Warrington (talk) 21:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

The purpose of this article

Why does this article not deal with encyclopaedic matters such as origin, history, etc? It seems to me that it is missing a great deal of information I would expect to find in an encyclopaedia Fiddle Faddle (talk) 14:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

History is in now. For Habsburg Empire see h ttp://ezinearticles.com/?Austrian-Dishes&id=1411498 called Austrian Dishes

Warrington (talk) 16:51, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

References

This is stated to be an Austrian dish. The Austro-Hungarian Empire notwithstanding, the references appear to be strongly biased in favour of purely Hungarian sources. The current ref 5 appears to be broken currently. I'd correct it, but I don;t have a clue where it should point. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 17:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

The Hungarian sources were in English, which makes them easier to read and check. Now there is just as many Austrian ones.

Warrington (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Title

Shouldn't this be titled "Apple strudel"? I do think it's called by this English name in bakeries in the U.S. and other English-speaking nations. Badagnani (talk) 08:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Redirects handle that pretty well. I'm more concerned about the tone of the entire article, which requires a serious cleanup. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Policy (not guideline) is pretty clear on this. Regardless of tone and other aspects of the article, a name change and CSG G6 of the current Apple strudel redirect is called for. Bongomatic 17:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Deification of dessert

While this is a dish that is redolent of the Viennese coffee houses, Apfelstrudel is a pretty generic piece of baked goods. There is no phrase "As Austrian as Apfelstrudel" in the same way there is the rather banal phrase "As American as Apple pie", and it is as generic a dish as apple pie.

It is, in fact, an apple pie with internal pastry.

In the same manner than a good apple pie is extremely enjoyable, so is a good strudel, but each is generic. Each is a dish of pretty humble origin, and each simply uses up apples.

Apfelstrudel is not a constellation in the heavens, it is not inviolate with only the one approved recipe, and it assuredly is not haute cuisine (or the Austrian equivalent). It's just an extremely enjoyable comestible provided one enjoys apples.

So can this article return from the state it is at now with the deification of Apfelstrudel to the place it ought to be, which is a simple, brief and to the point article saying what it is, where it comes from and broadly what is in it? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I like those poppyseed cakes, or are they strudels? Anyone? Danke. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Mohnstrudel? I do hope I have the spelling right, but just say it aloud! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:39, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Yankee Strudel

Yankee Doodle went to class

Riding on a gobbler

Traded turkey for some fruit

And made an apple cobbler.

—Jennifer Baxter, Grade 9

Is anyone interested in working on a poppy seed (poppyseed?) article? I am disturbed to find that the subject redirects to poppy. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

The chinese translateion of the dish is based on the following

• http://www.zhfao.gov.cn/fyyd/cych/200907/t20090703_82832.html

--124.78.226.5 (talk) 12:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

• http://www.yfao.gov.cn/UpLoadFile/2009/04/27/2009427163658483.doc

--222.64.24.9 (talk) 13:05, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Intestine strudel: non-traditional (Retes.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Retes.jpg

We've got to do something about that second picture. It looks like someone's large intestine--although a deliciously crispy one. Baking Apfelstrudel this way is fine at home but it seems to misrepresent what should be in an article like this (e.g. what is common, typical, traditional, etc). Can anyone find any main-stream chefs or texts that bake it this way? I'm going to go out on a limb here, but in briefly looking through the history of the strudel this doesn't appear to be particularly common. A chef in training would also be reprimanded for baking it like this. Perhaps someone just really wanted to get their picture of a "strudel" in here?

Would someone that knows the interface better please do strudel lovers world-wide a favor and make this small change (I don't want to engage in wiki vandalism and don't know enough about properly formating a wiki image section to do this myself).

Recommended alternatives here:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Strudly.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&redirs=1&search=apple+strudel&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns6=1&ns12=1&ns14=1&ns100=1

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&redirs=0&search=apfelstrudel&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns6=1&ns12=1&ns14=1&ns100=1

Thank you.

If there were a section on variations of the strudel (which I don't think is necessary), it would be fine in a section like that.

And yes, I'm trying to be a little funny here, but this is almost like doing an article on cinnamon rolls and then including a picture of how you can also bake them straight?? (Mmmmmmm, grandma's cinnamon rolls now slighty reminiscent of turd--delicious.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.231.187.34 (talk) 16:24, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

It says "Home made". Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:49, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

You're right. I know you're right (sigh). The picture also says "old fashioned", which I think most of us agree is quite likely to be true. But I think the question was more nuanced than that, it was really: "Is that 'Apple filling'", as indicated? This, among other things is what's wrong with that photo.

And that question remains.

Honestly, my initial reaction sets all that aside. At first I was just upset at the note on this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Retes.jpg) letting all of us readers know that: no higher resolution [was] available.

It's too bad really. It would answer a lot of questions.

[By the way, is this your "Home made","Old fashioned", "Strudel". If so, no offense was intended in my remarks. It's quite lovely really (as "strudels" go)]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.231.187.34 (talk) 18:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

not mine. I make them in a U shape :)

The main thing about the dish is that it is by no means always a restaurant dish. We ordinary peasants make it too :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. Lots of people make strudel. Although I'm not sure that's the focus of the article or the "main thing". And besides, even if we go with that logic then it should still be a reasonably representative sample of what peasants make, not that obscure one (unless you're going for totally obscure, in which case that photo doesn't work either).

I think many more commoners make strudel the way I do, which is in several discrete sections, not one long circular pile. So, I'm willing to concede your point that it's made by many different kinds of people (even if the article doesn't really discuss this), if you're willing to agree to a more representative sample of the way people make it. Are you?

If you don't like my original suggestion: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Strudly.jpg

Then let's find an alternative together, ok? Please?

I certainly provided many other options to choose from that I feel are more common. But if you don't think any of those would work, and would still like to make a point about us peasants also making it (which I like, and think is a decent point, although perhaps not entirely necessary), perhaps this imagery would be a closer mutually agreeable fit:

(I think the apples work. Although we'd need ro replace the horse):

http://www.altstadt-kultur-programm.de/images/Pferde_Apfel.jpg

Perhaps we can agree on a new shape, and one of us can then "bake" and take a new picture of our own? Can we agree on that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.231.187.34 (talk) 19:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)