Talk:Aquarius (opera)

Citations[edit]

I note that User:Voceditenore has rated this article start-class with the comment, "needs reception and inline citations". While I agree that it needs a reception section, I must point out that there is nothing at all in this article that does not have an inline citation supporting it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:53, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If User talk:Jerome Kohl wishes to discuss the issue of citations, pls discuss here. As User:Voceditenore notes above, inline citations need to appear on opera articles. Take a look at almost any article about an opera in the standard repertoire, and that is how it appears regardless of WP variations, etc. Viva-Verdi (talk) 01:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion moved from User talk:Jerome Kohl: Please note the comments of User:Voceditenore, which I support, in regard to this article's lack if inline references via the standard <ref>......</ref> system. Also, per WP:Opera's guidelines, we lay out a synopsis with no editable scenes.

If you wish to discuss this, please go to the article's "Talk" page and do so before taking any other action. Thanks you. Viva-Verdi (talk) 01:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The "standard" system you refer to is, unfortunately, not "standard' at all. It is one of several "standard" citation systems used on Wikipedia. I have already pointed you to WP:CITEVAR. Have you read it? I might also point out that Wikiprojects' preferences do not override Wikipedia policies or guidelines. It is not merely common courtesy, but a stated guideline that references should not be changed from the established format without first obtaining consensus of the editors of the article. As this has not been done, I respectively request that you restore the established formatting until such consensus has been obtained. I am copying this discussion to the article's Talk page.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:12, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Even WP:Opera links to WP:Citing sources which includes the CITEVAR paragraph, and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/Article_styles_and_formats#Synopsis_format says nothing about not making sub headers for scene divisions; it wouldn't make sense to apply this (non)rule to Das Rheingold. What's the point of trying to teach an already prodigiously experienced editor a lesson? Sparafucil (talk) 06:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Um...since my name has been invoked here, let me clarify what I said in 2011. By "lacks inline citations", I wasn't referring to the parenthetical format used by Jerome. I was referring to the fact that at the time there were no citations of any kind for either the premiere cast or the interpretations expressed in the synopsis. In my view statements like The orchestral prologue represents the stiffness of the strict limitation of personal enthusiasm by a constrained existence within the "letter of the law" ought to have an explicit source. As for the actual citation style used, CITEVAR and common sense cover this. I see no reason to change the current one wholesale simply because it happens to be in the minority. Personally, I think the parenthetical style is sub-optimal, but that's just my opinion. Jerome seems very set on it. So live and let live. In the great scheme of things, it matters very little. Voceditenore (talk) 08:07, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification of your meaning. I wish you had challenged me three-and-a-half years ago, when I claimed that "there is nothing at all in this article that does not have an inline citation supporting it." The cast list indeed is not cited ~~(it is found on the recording of the premiere performance)~~, but all those odd characterizations in the synopsis are found in Pols 1994, 164, the citation immediately preceding the list. However, I should have included Pols's introductory statement: "Karel Goeyvaerts himself describes the contents of the opera scene by scene", even though I trimmed Goeyvaerts's synopsis here and there for brevity's sake. I shall see what I can do to remedy this.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:30, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oops! I stand corrected. The recording is from a concert performance in 1996; the details for the staged premiere are found in Kooiman 2009 (and almost certainly in Delaere 2009, as well, though I don't have this immediately to hand). I have now added this citation.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:54, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]