Talk:Aram Khachaturian

Status?

The article states by implication that Khachaturian was one of the major composers of the century, along with Shostakovich and Prokofiev. Is that really valid? I would guess that most authorities would place Khachaturian as at best a second-ranker in world terms, well below the other two. Jon Rob 15:21, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Khachaturian was included in the book of music literature for pupils of music schools of the Soviet Union alongside with SHostakovich and Prokofiev. It is really really valid indeed and it is not based on your opinion Jon Rob. Khachaturian with his talent stands even above the other two. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.197.242.156 (talk • contribs) . Expletive and last sentence removed under WP:NPA

Perhaps today he is not seen as a first-class composer, but in Soviet Russia his standing was more-or-less equal to that of DSCH and Prokofiev, and i think that at least should be reflected in the article. --Alex16zx 13:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• Some of the IP comments were removed per WP:Talk This space is for discussing improvements to the Aram Khachaturian article and not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. VartanM (talk) 05:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

children

This article makes no mention of his children. I met his great grandson in Boston last fall.--24.218.8.95 (talk) 02:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Exaggerations

The article states that he didn't know a word of Russian when he arrived to Moscow aged 18. Being a Tbilisian myself I can tell that it just couldn't be true. It's like saying that the person who was born and raised in Dublin doesnt know a word in English.81.152.251.223 (talk) 18:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Where you born in 1903? If not, I will put forth that Tbilisi from 1903 until 1921 when he came to Moscow was likely much different as far as having a lot of Russian speakers than current Tbilisi. --RossF18 (talk) 19:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

And Dublin in 1903 and Tbilisi in 1903 are in very much different places as far as openess to different cultures, location, and preponderance of English versus Russian speakers. A more apt comparison would be Los Angeles in 1803 and Los Angeles now as far as English speakers. That said, the statement should be sourced. --RossF18 (talk) 19:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The claim that Khachaturian spoke no Russian when he first came to Moscow is not supported by Victor Yuzefovich's biography, written with Khachaturian's cooperation: p.18 it states 'Aram knew enough Russian not be confused [during debates and discussions about art in the house of his brother, Suren] by similar-sounding words that had entirely different meanings in Armenian.' I have therefore deleted the claim he knew no Russian given this, and the fact no one has managed to substantiate the claim. Alfietucker (talk) 11:36, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

How Armenian was Khachaturian?

While it is clear that Khachaturian was from an Armenian family, he was born in Tblisi (Georgia) in 1903 and moved to Moscow in 1921. He never visited Armenia until 1939. He received no formal music training before coming to Moscow. He is clearly a genius of his own, and a master of the Russian symphonic tradition. A few quotes from Stanley D. Krebs, Soviet Composers and the Development of Soviet Music (George Allen and Unwin, London, 1970): "Khachaturian is, musically, a Russian composer. [..] He epitomizes, in solid Russian style, the republican composer of ultimate, and imaginary, greater Soviet maturity. [..] But the essence of his importance is that all these [musical influences], including the Armenian, are handled in the same manner: in the St. Petersburg tradition. [..] Soviet ideological demands fettered Khachaturian as an 'Armenian' composer in the mid-thirties. [..] The piano concerto remains one of his best works. One wishes to lay to rest the dogmatic nonsense of this being an 'Armenian' concerto, or a concerto of any other nationality." Krebs points out that Soviet propaganda, wishing to include all nationalities in the Union, deliberately branded Khachaturian as an Armenian composer, commissioning in 1939 a ballet for the Moscow Ten-day Festival of Armenian Music. "This began his tenure as an Armenian composer and also began the long story of his ubiquitous ballet, Gaiane." I think Khachaturian's own statements about his Armenian roots must be seen in the light of his condemnation as a formalist by the Communist Party. It was necessary to emphasize his ethnic origins in that context, but do we have to keep the myth alive? Put differently, how Armenian is the Waltz from Masquerade or the Adagio from Spartacus? Zwart (talk) 20:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

do we have to keep the myth alive -- so long as most sources say so, yes. Since you've done some research, a small bit consolidating the above in an appropriate section, with full sourcing, may be ok. As for how Armenian he is, well he certainly DID use a lot of Armenian folk music styles and probably actual folk music (I forget right this second) in his music -- his waltzes may not be Armenian, but the Lezginkas sure are, and even music of very similar style to the Saber Dance shows up in other Armenian symphonic-style pieces I've heard. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 21:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for reacting. This is a very touchy issue, so I'll wait for some more reactions. The Lezghinka is a Georgian dance, according to my sources (actually, from the Lezgian people Zwart (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)). Gaiane probably has more Armenian elements, because it is set in Armenia, or grew out of an earlier ballet set in Armenia. But that doesn't make him an 'Armenian' composer, any more than Dvorak is an American composer etc. Zwart (talk) 14:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

If you're using his place of birth and his extensive travel before setting foot in Armenia as the thing that makes him not Armenian, that's hardly a valid reason. His entire family is Armenian and his heritage is Armenian and place of birth, unless you belong to the majority group, hardly makes you that ethnicity. Remember, it is important to not judge the place of birth by American or Western European standards. In US, many people strive to be an American, so whatever ethnicity your family is, when you're born in US, you become a US citizen, and you can actually be an American unless you really try not to be. In Eastern Europe and Middle East, place of birth has little bearing on your ethnicity and who you are. If you come from an Armenian family, are of Armenian dissent, you can be born on the Moon for all they care, you're still an Armenian. And living in a country that belonged to Soviet Union or travel or living in Russia, doesn't make a person Russian. While is is gradually changing, at the time of his birth, just because he was born somewhere else, he was most definitely an Armenian.--RossF18 (talk) 17:47, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not questioning his being from an Armenian family (although they settled in Georgia as early as 1870), and people are free to value ethnicity as highly as they like. The question is, does that make his music Armenian or deeply influenced by Armenian folk music, as one reads so often. For that one would have to see a consistent appearance of Armenian elements in his music, and that hasn't been demonstrated, as far as I know. So I'm questioning the validity of the ethnic label in this particular domain. Zwart (talk) 22:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

If you have sources that specifically note that his music is not Armenian or influenced by Armenian music, please feel free to add that information with the sources. Perhaps create a section titled Controversy about Khachaturian's Musical Inspiration or just create a subsection in the general music section highlighting how your sources say that his music really is not influenced by Armenian folk music. Depending on the sources, that would be a valuable contribution to the article. However, even if his music is not influenced by Armenian folk music, that doesn't make him any less Armenian. There are plenty of composers born in various nations who are influenced by foreign music and their compositions change as a result. Those changes, even it's the majority of their composed pieces, doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country whose music style they were influenced by. I don't think saying that Khachaturian was an Armenian composer has to mean that his music always has Armenian melodies as a base or undertones. He is Armenian because of his heritage, not because of the kind of music he composed-it's in his blood, so to speak. Musically, he can be a Russian composer or Chinese. Just like an American composer can be African or German musically, even if he is a white Southerner with roots from Italy. That composer would still be American. Same with Khachaturian: being influenced by Russian music, even if entirely, doesn't change the fact that he's Armenian and that makes him an Armenian composer. No composer is called a ethnic or national of any nation that merely influences his music.--RossF18 (talk) 22:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

On another point that's closer to what you were saying, NO - just because he is Armenian, that doesn't necessarily make his music Armenian. So, you're right to question the validity of the ehtnic label of his music, but not the ethnic label of him. So, again, if your sources say that his music is not Armenian, feel free to add that into the article. But, to belabor the point, not composing Armenian music doesn't make him any less of an Armenian composer. It's not the kind of music he composes, but his ethnicity. Some of the greatest composers from a nation may compose in the style that's entirely foreign to that country.--RossF18 (talk) 22:47, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

And to reiterate, you NEED to state some sources, it really doesn't matter what you as an unpublished random person think, as far as what you're allowed to put into WP. Nor is this really the place to get into the issue beyond how it relates to what will be in the article. Personally, I listen to his music and a lot of it has that certain something that sets it quite apart from most Russian music. But that's just me as a music lover. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 23:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Let's calm down. There is really no reason for all caps to hammer fellow editors (my NO was to voice agreement). Sources would be nice, especially for what seems like controversial points, but this article is without any sources to begin with, so if we begin demanding sources blindly, this entire article will be just his birth and death dates. Speaking of getting into the issue beyond how it relates to what will be in the article, how is discussing your listening to his music and being a music lover different. And I don't think the discussion will progress on the right foot when we start saying things like "it really doesn't matter what you as an unpublished random person think" and then in the next sentence start giving our own unpublished random opinion as to how "his music . . . has that certain something that sets it quite apart from most Russian music." Let's keep it corgial.--RossF18 (talk) 03:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Well the point is, that since most sources (even if they aren't noted here) say that he's an Armenian composer, and his music has a lot of Armenian influence, then anything that goes against this needs to be properly sourced much more than most of what's on the page. My point was, one random person bringing up objections against decades of published info stating otherwise isn't going to have any weight. My other comment at the end was merly to point out that I for one DO hear his music as not the same as other Russians...I'm sorry you didn't get the implications of that statement. But maybe I'm just a dumn yutz and all my opinions are worth nothing (like the guy at talk:The Nutcracker seems to think) ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 03:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

If I misconstrued, I appologize. Trying to keep the peace, that's all. I agree with you however. --RossF18 (talk) 04:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all this input. I think we agree on the added need for sources if contentious points are made in a WP article. And to reiterate, my question was not about ethnicity but about culture (which is not ethnically constrained). Incidentally, if you look at the Armenian K. site (under 'biography'), you see that K's cultural identity is very carefully circumscribed. Zwart (talk) 13:27, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

What part of the following quote from the website you reference leaves any ambiguity of Khachaturian having Armenian culture? "Aram Khachaturian is a great Armenian composer, an outstanding representative of 20th century’s music, one of the most original contemporary composers. His works are part of the world music’s “gold portfolio”." Serouj (talk) 23:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Khatchaturian's being born in Tbilisi should be taken in its historical context of the Armenian Diaspora. Tbilisi was the cultural center of Eastern Armenian culture from the 18th to early twentieth centuries. Serouj (talk) 22:47, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Culture and ethnicity do not trump political geography. Khachaturian's passport did not describe him as 'Armenian', therefore neither should we. Pfistermeister (talk) 22:53, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

He is Armenian first. He just happened to be born in Georgia. (Tbilisi, as I mentioned before, was the cultural center of the Eastern Armenian culture. On the other hand, Constantinople was the cultural center of Western Armenians. That doesn't make Krikor Zohrab TURKISH just because he was born in Constantinople! Similarly, Khatchaturian's being born in Tblisia does NOT make him Georgian!) Serouj (talk) 23:08, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Lastly, it is WIDELY accepted that Khachaturian is Armenian, so let's not argue about minor technical points that he was born in Georgia and therefore is Georgian! That is plain ridiculous. Armenians had their cultural CENTER in Tiflis; that doesn't make them Georgians!! Serouj (talk) 23:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Kindly produce his passport. I will abide by what it says. Pfistermeister (talk) 23:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, technically when he was born in 1903, Tiflis was a part of the Russian Empire. After the creation of the Armenian state, many Tbilisi Armenians moved to Armenia. Serouj (talk) 23:24, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposal of a compromise

Do we really need to emphasize him being "Soviet-Georgian" composer? There is nothing Georgian in his life and work except for the birthplace, which was of quite little importance for every Soviet artist. Would the following be a compromising description of him:

".... was a Soviet composer, born in the family of Armenian descent in Tiflis (now Tbilisi, Georgia), whose works were often influenced by Armenian folk music."

Regards, Alaudo (talk) 23:16, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

@Alaudo: in that case, e.g. instead of calling a "German" any prominent German, who happened to be born and create what he's famous for during the Nazi regime, we would call "Nazi", That would be rather insulting, wouldn't it? Then why should an Armenian composer be called "Soviet" composer, just because he composed during soviet occupation? I would remove the "Soviet" part completely and leave only "Armenian". koz that's what Khachaturyan is. He is born Armenian, his both parents are Armenian, and his music is with Armenian folk music touch.92.229.178.52 (talk) 10:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)Lilit92.229.178.52 (talk) 10:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for mediating Alaudo. I think it should be emphasized that he is "Soviet-Armenian" and that he was born in Tiflis, Georgia, as such:

"Aram Khachaturian (Armenian: Արամ Խաչատրյան, Aram Xačaturyan; Russian: Арам Ильич Хачатурян, Aram Il'ič Hačaturjan) (born in Tiflis, Georgia) June 6, 1903 – May 1, 1978) was a Soviet-Armenian composer whose works were often influenced by Armenian folk music."

It is unmistakable that he is Armenian, a completely irrefutable point. There is not much more to emphasize in the first sentence that he was born in Tiflis. There is no other Georgian attribute to him. Serouj (talk) 23:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Difficult! What would "Soviet-Armenian" bring compared to just "Soviet"? My proposal would probably end the edit war in this particular article and would do no harm to the concerned person or the quality of the article in general, for it describes his life and works from rather neutral point of view. In the big multi-national world people tend to identify you by your birthplace (or, if that's different, by your citizenship) and not by your etnicity and there are thousands of examples of such articles in English Wikipedia (look for example at Zamenhof, the complete explanation of his etnicity is taken off from the opening of the article!). So, why not to do the same with this article to keep its NPOV? Alaudo (talk) 23:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

In this situation, Khachaturian was an Armenian who was born in Tiflis, which at the time was the Russian Empire. This neither makes him Russian nor Georgian. We can cite that he is Soviet-Armenian and born in Tiflis. That is as Non-POV as it gets. Serouj (talk) 00:10, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

For my part, I am most fascinated at having now been threatened by a user: told that I will be 'blocked' because I refuse to kow-tow to his ethnic-nationalist fantasies. The fact remains that calling Khatchaturian 'Armenian' obscures the politico-geographical facts in the interests of an ethnic-nationalist agenda *to which neither I nor wikipedia should bend the knee*. Pfistermeister (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear Pfistermeister, before your edits, it had already been established that Khachaturian is Armenian (read the above section). If you are going against what is widely accepted to be true, then you must prove your point before making such a bold edit and statement that Khachaturian is Georgian! Serouj (talk) 23:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Not content with threatening me on my talk page, you now high-handedly delete the reference I provided! You are a [unacceptable personal attack redacted. Stephan Schulz (talk)]. You bring wikipedia into disrepute. Pfistermeister (talk) 23:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I find it strange discussion. This would be quite an off-topic, but can the fact that George Harrison was influenced by music of India cause a though that he is in fact an Indian musician? Abba's songs were all in English and they contain no elements of Swedish national folklore or so, but they are still considered an Swedish band! Don't forget that family plays a big role in development of a child. He for sure had listened to Armenian music when he was a child, he spoke Armenian - and there's no doubt - he was not a Russian composer. Khachaturian was Armenian by his ethnicity and can be called a Soviet composer, but no Russian or GeorgianForeverChild (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.161.213.55 (talk) 17:01, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

"Georgia" in intro

At the time, Tiflis (as it was called then) was a part of the Russian Empire. It was not considered Georgia at the time. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to say "Tiflis, Georgia" as Tiflis was part of the Tbilisi Governorate and not an independent state known as Georgia! Sorry, but this is the historical record at the time, and we follow it. Later on in the article, we can mention that Tbilisi is now in Georgia, but that is too minor of a point to make it into the introductory sentence of this person's article! Serouj (talk) 01:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Armenian nationalist agenda tries to appropriate Khatchaturian...

I am being threatened with 'blocking' by one 'Serouj' -- who has now even *deleted* a *properly sourced* reference I provided that happens to contradict his personal ethnic-nationalist fantasies. What I am 'guilty of' is the mere attempt to construct a lede paragraph that makes it straightforwardly clear that Khatchaturian was actually born in Georgia, not Armenia, and was thus 'administratively' Georgian by birth (and later 'Soviet-Georgian'), even if he was ethnically and culturally Armenian.

I can easily see why the Armenian nationalist lobby wants to make Khatchaturian 'Soviet-Armenian'; but I insist that it is not wikipedia's job to pander to ethnic-nationalist pressure-groups in this way. I believe 'Serouj' -- an Armenian with a history of aggressively pro-Armenian edits and postings -- is treating me in an unfair way in the interests of his political agenda. Pfistermeister (talk) 01:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Umm, there is a very lengthy debate two sections up about this. Khachaturian in no way was Georgian. He was Armenian by birth and lived most of his life in Moscow. The only reason he was born in Tiflis was that Tiflis was the cultural center of Armenian culture at the time. Indeed, Tiflis was a cosmopolitan city with many different cultures (indeed, in 1897, there were more Armenians in Tiflis than Georgians. This quote is from the Tbilisi article itself - "Throughout the century, the political, economic and cultural role of Tbilisi with its ethnic, confessional and cultural diversity (Armenians, Georgians and Russians comprised 38.1, 26.3 and 24.8 percent of the population respectively in 1897[4]) was significant not only for Georgia but for the whole Caucasus.". :Again, the fact that Khachaturian was born in Tiflis neither makes him Russian nor Georgian! Lastly, Tiflis at that time was part of the Russian Empire -- no state of Georgia existed at the time. Sorry that these facts don't appease your particular view point. Serouj (talk) 01:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Your edits are rather ridiculous. I believe that it is you who is the nationalist between us, as Khachaturian isn't even CLOSE to being a Georgian! Please move on to something more productive like improving the Tbilisi article, as you have absolutely no case here. Serouj (talk) 01:32, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the Pfister doth protest too much. He was Armenian, Pfister. Sorry if that fact disappoints you. TA-ME (talk) 02:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Pfistermeister's remarks are false to say at least and they actually provoke national tensions. While the Soviet Union was still in place we all had same citizenship, yet we all were ethnically distinct. Ethnic Armenians are born anywhere: be it Lebanon, France, Russia or Georgia. That does not make us Lebanese, French, Russian or Georgian. Unfortunately, the tendency to usurp Armenian heritage and culture is a recent trend among her neighbors. Recent attempts to annex Armenian Church of Norashen in Tbilisi serve as an example of this system of stealing! And now Aram Khatchaturian! Who's going to claimed as a "Georgian" next? Needless to remind you that Armenians played key role in Tbilisi over the course of many centuries. Do not be ignorant and do not use Wikipedia for political purpose. Avetik (talk) 03:07, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Pity to see how 3 Armenian are mocking at the only person who is trying to be objective. Khachaturian was never a citizen of Armenia, nor of Armenian Republic within USSR (for he lived in Moscow his whole life long), so technically he is NOT Armenian. As regards etnicity, it is already very well emphasized in the opening of the article by mentioning he was born in the Armenian family, there is no way and need to emphasize it even more, that's the usual practive of English Wikipedia, which is not a soapbox. Alaudo (talk) 08:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

You can count four now. I hope you realize the nonsensical nature of the remarks you made above.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:30, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

There is absolutely 0% objectivity in Pfistermeister's outrageous edit. There is 100% nationalistic provocation. And you know it, don't you? Avetik (talk) 18:43, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It's so funny to see how contributors with 0 knowledge and understanding of region, history, and culture, label those who do have understanding "nationalists" and consider themself "objective". I hate wasting my time on incompetent people, so I will not go over all the perls met here, though just one example of Lezginka dance being Georgian in your opinion, and not Lezghin while Lezginka being "Lezghin's/Lezghin smth" in Russian, perfectly shows terrible incompetence of contributors, and their "objectivness".

As already mentioned Tbilisi, a city in Russian Empire, and capital of Tiflis province by that time was armenian cultural centre, with 38% (majority) of city being armenians. Even without googling I can mention about 20 armenian writers, poets, artists, millitary officers, etc, who were born, lived and created in Tbilisi. Still it's first time I come across someone who thinks that they were Georgians. At that time there simply was NO Georgia and NO Armenia. If we follow your logic, and determine nationality (or ethnicity as you call it in west) by place of birth, those who were born in Tiflis by beginning of 20th century, would first be Armenian, then Georgian or Russian (with last two having pretty same chances - 28% and 26%). BTW, Baku was another armenian center by that time. With Gumri, being only major city in Eastern Armenia and Yerevan still being smth like big village and not a city suitable for art or science. Lot of Western Armenian writers were born and lived all their live in Stambul, does it make them Turkish? :) Well, let's go for some statistics.

• არამ ხაჩატურიანი - "Aram Khachatrian" in Georgian 232 Google Results vs. "Արամ Խաչատրյան" - "Aram Khachatrian" in Armenian 55,300 Google Results
• "Aram+Khachaturian"+"Georgian" 3,010 vs. "Aram+Khachaturian"+"Armenian" 18,100

Georgian wikipedia considers Aram Kchatryan to be Armenian composers (follow the first interwiki, after birth/death dates/places)

Let me sum it up: A. Khachaturyan considers himself Armenian, Georgians consider him Armenian, Armenians consider him Armenian. Researchers consider him Armenian. A lot of his works are based/enspired by armenian folk/culture in general, last one being most important, as when we talk about an artist being of X nationality, we first of all mean his works were tangibly influenced and/or influenced X culture. In this case, Khachaturyan, neither was influenced by Georgian culture/folk, nor influenced Georgian culture.

His house-museum is in Yerevan, Armenia, several concert halls, musical schools/college are named by A. Kchaturyan in Armenia, in lot of Armenia cities, you can find streets named by Khachaturyan, he was placed on armenian banknot. You wouldn't find anything like that in Georgia, and there's just one street and one monument in Russia, Moscow. His recognitions and honors, were being first given by Soviet Armenian Republic, and only 6-7 years later other Soviet republics would grant him same honors (check ru:wp for list, or website of house-museum), he was the author of Anthem of Soviet Armenia, etc, etc.. I mean it's just so obvious, that it's hard to explain. And only "Pfistermeister" being sure that he was Georgian, and those who disagree with his original research and personal POV are "armenian nationalists". DIXI. Regards, --Aleksey Chalabyan a.k.a. Xelgen (talk) 13:51, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It might also be helpful to direct the attention of the editors here to the rather farcical "discussion" that took place on the Tigran Petrosian talk page last year, here. Having come to the consensus that Petrosian was indeed an Armenian, albeit from the USSR, one of the editors felt it compulsory to add the superfluous and, frankly, asinine remark that "Western publications described Petrosian as an Armenian." Nationalism indeed.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:30, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I see that this discussion got out of hand, as could have been expected. I just like to refer to my opening remarks in the section "How Armenian was K.". My main point is that appropriating K. as 'Armenian' carries the suggestion that his genius is a matter of ethnicity rather than of individuality. I have seen no demonstrations of Armenian (rather than Russian or generic Caucasian) qualities in his music, here or anywhere else. I've described how K. was branded ethnic for Sovjet political reasons and that K. was well advised to play the part. It is understandable that Armenians are proud of the affiliation with Khatchaturian, which explains the google counts referred to above, but if you look into it, it still very much looks like a myth. Having said that, I'm OK with the present phrasing, noting that this is the current consensus. But I also feel that nationality is an administrative issue, and user Pfistermeister was treated unfairly when he raised the point of K's passport. Zwart (talk) 19:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

List of compositions by Aram Khachaturian

Should we make a page similar to other composers that has all of his compositions to avoid taking up space on the main Khachaturian article? --Chrismiceli (talk) 21:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Not a bad idea. Feel free to go about it. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 22:07, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I have done this, I feel the section that links to the main article could use some expansion. --Chrismiceli (talk) 16:04, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

"Khachaturian and communism"

This section of the article seems to me very POV and questionable in its assumption; it's one thing to recognise that Khachaturian to a degree benefited from the Soviet Union's "championship" of ethnic minorities (within the strictures and distortions of Stalinist cultural policies), but quite another to claim he was working for the regime rather than for his colleagues (a significant distinction which helps explain why he fell from official favour in 1948). Further, the section has next to no citations to back its claims about Khachaturian's alleged loyalty to the regime. I propose merging matters of fact from this section into the "Life" section of the article, unless anyone can provide concrete evidence that Khachaturian was doing anything more than "rendering unto Caesar" in his supposed allegiance to communism. Alfietucker (talk) 00:00, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Relatively/extremely popular

The tweak made regarding the degree of popularity enjoyed by K's Masquerade Suite highlights the fact (for me, at least) that Wikipedia is an international website, and what is true of a work's popularity in one country may not be quite so true in another. I don't think Masquerade, as fine a suite as it is, can be described today as "extremely" popular in either the UK or the USA - certainly not in relation to such works as Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, or even Holst's The Planets. For this reason I am reverting this to "relatively", and if anyone feels this does the work less than justice then I would urge them to consider specifying exactly where/amongst which audience the work is "extremely" popular. Alfietucker (talk) 13:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)