Talk:Argonne National Laboratory

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Untitled[edit]

It would be nice to include one this page a list of experiments and projects currently and formerly located at Argonne.

"...was recently the facility awarded to receive..." Go ahead, read it again if you like...I'll wait. Yes, that is actually a portion of a sentence found in this wiki article. I don't know about you, but I graduated third grade in third grade. My teacher was Mrs. Kane. More importantly, she taught me that adding unnecessary words to a sentence can make it difficult on the reader.

New Construction[edit]

There should be information about the new construction.

Deer and refs[edit]

Any information about deer should be in a link to a Waterfall Glen article. Waterfall Glen is the Forest Preserve that surrounds Argonne.

This article has no referenc such. With no references the entire deer thing is OR and/or at the very least of dubious veracity, I tagged it as such. IvoShandor 13:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

External links aren't sources. They are external links, no one should be expected to assume that is where they should verify information, since this information is likely to be challenged it requires inline citations, please add accordingly. IvoShandor 08:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
The entire white deer text is taken from the Virtual Tour text. It's more likely to be COPYVIO than OR --Tometheus 02:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The so-called white or 'ghost' deer are naturally pale-colored fallow deer (Dama dama). You can find a description of them on p.4 of this downloadable PDF distributed by Argonne Lab: http://www.ne.anl.gov/About/Argonne_2006_Open_House.pdf (79k - 2011-10-12). There are about 40 white deer on the grounds, and they cannot interbreed with the 60 or so white-tailed brown deer on the premises and don't compete with them for food. It is my understanding that the deer roam free on the Argonne grounds, which are fenced in (I live in SW suburban Chicago and have seen the fences around Argonne Lab). If the deer aren't wandering around in the forest preserve but are within the fence, there's no rationale for moving the reference to them to the Waterfall Glen Forest Preserve entry. Mrtraska (talk) 22:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


Lab Location[edit]

While the page says it's in Dupage County, in which municipality is it in? If not in a city, it is definitely within a township. --Criticalthinker (talk) 02:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


That's spelled DuPage County, capital P, and even though Argonne Lab is bordered on the north by Darien and on the west by unincorporated Willowbrook, the Argonne Lab property is considered a "town" in itself for address purposes and has its own postal zip code. It's simply known as Argonne, IL. It's in Downers Grove Township of DuPage County. Check Google Maps, and you'll see. Also, when the lab moved there, it bordered unincorporated Bolingbrook on the west side and the Des Plaines River on the south side, which mostly represents the southern border of DuPage County. Mrtraska (talk) 22:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Actually, the 60439 zip is officially Lemont, not Argonne. Mail sent to Argonne, IL 60439 will, of course, be delivered; but automated programs utilized by Credit Card checking algorithms will often fail with it, as it is out of comportance with the official Lemont assignation. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 22:39, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

History section[edit]

There are a couple of errors here in the section that reads: Considered unsafe, in 1943 CP-1 was reconstructed as CP-2, in Red Gate Woods in nearby Palos Hills. Being in a forest, the site was code named "Argonne", after the Forest of Argonne in France, where U.S. troops fought in World War I.

First of all, it wasn't called Red Gate Woods back then, and second, that's not why the facility was named Argonne. Today's Red Gate Woods, Wolf Road Woods, Cranberry Slough Nature Preserve and Spears Woods are all part of what used to be Argonne Forest in Palos Township, IL. A 1926 plat map of Palos Township, kept in the archives at the Chicago History Museum (formerly the Chicago Historical Society) and reproduced in the book Palos Park by Arcadia Publishing, clearly shows that the woods west of Palos Park were already known as Argonne Forest at least as far back as 1925, probably earlier. It's true that this forest was named after the Forest of Argonne in northeastern France, because of a battle there in which U.S. troops were involved. It is NOT true, however, that the Manhattan Project code named the site in what is now Red Gate Woods for that reason, because that forest preserve had already been known as Argonne Forest for at least 20 years before the lab was built, and the plat map proves it. Even the Argonne Lab history page says they named the lab after the surrounding forest (not the French battlefield): http://www.anl.gov/about-argonne/history

The Argonne Forest forest preserve, moreover, was/is in Cook Cook County, which agreed to lease that land for CP-2 to the federal government during WW II. However, after the war ended, the Forest Preserve District of Cook County was not willing to sell that land to the feds -- so the federal government then approached DuPage County, looking for a new site. The pre-existing Rocky Glen Forest Preserve in DuPage County (now part of Waterfall Glen FP) and the land surrounding it, including the 200-acre summer home property of Chicago industrialist Erwin Freund, were bought up through eminent domain (in other words, Freund got chased off his own property in exchange for a less than market price) by the feds to build Argonne Lab. It was Freund, BTW, who brought seven white or ghost deer to his property in 1941, long before there was a lab; he acquired them from clothier Maurice L. Rothschild, who couldn't keep them any longer on his estate in Highland Park, IL but didn't want to kill them. So the deer preceded the lab by several years. Here's another citation for that: http://www.dupagehistory.org/dupage_roots/Darien_6.htm

Finally, the entry erroneously says that the lab moved from what is now Red Gate Woods to Lemont. Although Lemont is a town that straddles the edges of three counties (Cook, Will, and DuPage), it lies mostly in Cook County, overwhelmingly south of the Des Plaines River, and only a very small fragment of it was ever north of the Des Plaines in DuPage County -- and even that small part was unincorporated during the 1940s. Most of the property on which Argonne Lab was built was either DuPage forest preserve land at the time, next-door farmland, or Freund's 200 acres, which were all in an unincorporated area north of Lemont. So: the entry should say that Argonne Lab moved from the Argonne Forest in Cook County to what was then unincorporated Downers Grove Township in DuPage County. That would be more precise and less misleading. Mrtraska (talk) 22:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

And now I'm going to correct the entry to reflect all this. Mrtraska (talk) 22:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


External links[edit]

I truly hope this doesn't offend our contributors, but the external links section is too long. Wikipedia:External links contains guidelines - in a nutshell they should be kept to a minimum. (WP:ELNO). Could they be prosified and worked into article sections? I'll post the ex. links here. Novickas (talk) 21:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the problem with the links, and I'm a professional editor -- it makes them easier for readers to find. Burying them in the text just because you think there are too many in teh place where one might logically look for them doesn't make sense to me. You're placing the visual effect above communication of information, I think. But I suppose you folks will do whatever you want regardless.Mrtraska (talk)

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