|WikiProject India / Tamil Nadu||(Rated Start-class, Low-importance)|
|WikiProject Languages||(Rated Start-class)|
The current article reads like a press release about how great Arwi is - that's not really appropriate for a Wikipedia article, which is supposed to be unbiased. It's better to show how important Arwi is with facts and information rather than just saying so. What makes Arwi books "invaluable" or "authoritative"? Why is it more important than any other aspect of Sarandib-Arab and Indo-Arab cultural heritage? And language like "everlasting monument" just plain doesn't belong here. DopefishJustin 21:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
- Fixed as much RaveenS 17:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Arwi Language Discussion
I have a lot of work in the Arwi Language (from my Grandmother and Grandfather) like dictionaries etc. We called the language Arabu-Tamil and not Arwi. How can the books I have be made useful to anyone interested in them or the wikipedia? Rumey Rumey 11:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe upload scans to Wikibooks? Or even just to a photo site like Flickr. --JWB 21:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Rumey, i am doing research on Arwi and Tamil Muslims, so i will need those books for my research. Can you please give me your contact details so that i can contact you and get those books. It will be a great help if you do it. my email id is firstname.lastname@example.org --Yams — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yams.s.p (talk • contribs) 02:55, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
The article needs immediate attention
... thus, I've multi-tagged it. Apart from this, I have a question: did these unref'd old edits (by anon.), which were immediately reverted, contain any useful info at all?
--Omnipaedista (talk) 01:33, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Arabic, or Persian?
The article claims this is Arabicized Tamil. However, it uses the Persian script, not the Arabic, and is said to be the Tamil equivalent of Urdu, which is also Persianized, not Arabicized. Did the "Arabic Tamil" name mislead someone? Do we have a RS for this? kwami (talk) 23:28, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Who says it uses the Persian script? A couple of letter values appear to be the same, but other sounds like p are represented differently in Perso-Arabic and Arwi.
When it is said to be the Dravidian equivalent of Urdu, I interpreted it to mean that it was a version of the local language used by Muslims, written in Arabic script, and incorporating some Arabic vocabulary. I did not think it meant Arwi was descended from Urdu.
- This article claims it uses the Persian script. If it doesn't, that should be corrected.
- I didn't think it meant Arwi was descended from Urdu either, merely that it's formation was similar, say through the Moghuls. (Yes, I know the Moghuls didn't have much presence in the area, but I don't know what else may have been going on. And forms of Urdu popped up all over India.)
- The coastal-Arab connection would seem likely on the face of it. Do you know if it was actually the case? If it was, a closer analogy than Urdu would be Swahili. kwami (talk) 07:43, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Ok, I see "Perso-Arabic Script" in the infobox, only after searching for it. This was introduced on 27 September 2008 by an anonymous editor. As said, this does not seem accurate. The letter "cha" seems to be the only similarity between Arwi and Persian alphabets not from Arabic. In fact the Perso-Arabic Script article explains:
- "There are many Arabic-derived alphabets which were not influenced by the Perso-Arabic script, including Jawi (used for Malay), Sorabe (Malagasy), and many alphabets used in Northern Africa. These alphabets used other innovations for writing such common sounds as [p] and [g], instead of the Perso-Arabic letters پ and گ, although the Jawi script does use the same symbol for [ʧ] ( چ )."
- The coastal-Arab connection is supported by all history I've read as well as the articles wikilinked in this article. I don't know the Swahili Arabic alphabet values (it is not documented in Swahili or Category:Arabic-derived alphabets) but it's not surprising that a South Asian would first think of Urdu (spoken as far south as Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh) rather than Swahili as a comparison. --JWB (talk) 09:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, natural, but misleading to others.
- AFAIK, the Swahili Arabic script was pretty much unmodified. There were some idiosyncrasies, and reforms proposed in the early 20th century which never caught on, but otherwise you simply approximated Swahili in the Arabic alphabet, so that yangu 'mine' and yako 'yours' were both written as if they were "yaku". kwami (talk) 09:59, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- I think the Urdu comparison was among "Arabic-script, Muslim-influenced languages of South Asia" rather than attempting to trace the origins of the letter values. I noticed you changed "Urdu" to "Swahili" - I don't think the comparison to Swahili is closer than that to Jawi, North African alphabets, etc., and it is certainly not South Asian. Jawi is likely to have originated from the South Indian coast, actually. --JWB (talk) 13:24, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The popular name "Arabic-Tamil" is misleading as it conceals (a) the well known considerable Persian influence on the language, and (b) the possible origin of some of the words used by Arwi writers and speakers in the non-Aryan and non-Dravidian, indigenous or "tribal" languages of the area.
- Ah, so it would seem it's not a coastal Arab influence. Go ahead and fix as you see fit; you know more about this than I do. kwami (talk) 20:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The influence is more Persian than Urdu. Indeed, as I hail from a family that had strong Arabu-Tamil connections I can testify that there are some loan words from Farsi and not Urdu. The Arab Tamil language indeed must have evolved like Urdu, but in a different route. The first few Muslim settlers in Tamil Nadu were indeed Arabs. But then a subsequent population m
In Arabic-based creole languages is written: "Arwi: An extinct Arabic-based creole spoken by Sri Lankan Moors and Muslims in South India". This article says it's rather Arabic-influenced Tamil. Either is wrong and, I think, should be fixed, but I'm not sure which one. --Koryakov Yuri (talk) 17:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
This article has a number of problems
- The only valid criterion to define Arwi or Arabic-Tamil is the use of Arabic script. It is quite impossible to define Arabic-Tamil on linguistic grounds. Of course you will find a considerable amount of Arabic loanwords in Arabic-Tamil texts, but you will find them also in present-day texts which have been written by Muslim authors or deal with Muslim subjects, yet nobody would dub them "Arwi" or "Arabic-Tamil". Besides, where would you set a border: Are 5 percent Arabic loanwords be enough to qualify a text as Arabic-Tamil? 10 percent? 20 percent? There are no other linguistic features which would set Arabic-Tamil apart. So Arabic-Tamil should not be presented as a language of its own or a distinct dialect of Tamil. Of course there are Muslim sociolects of Tamil, just like there are e.g. Brahmin sociolects, but Arabic-Tamil is basically just Tamil written in Arabic script. For these reasons you absolutely cannot say that Arabic-Tamil is "extinct as a spoken language", compare Arabic-Tamil with Swahili or even call Arabic-Tamil a "Arabic-based creole".
- Since Arabic-Tamil can be only defined by the use of Arabic script, Arwi language and Arwi alphabet (which is basically a non-article anyway) should be merged to an article Arwi or Arabic-Tamil.
- Some uncourced statements highly dubious or biased ("There are historical records of the prevalence of Arwi in far Eastern countries, such as Indonesia and Thailand, up until the 1970s. Even today, there are Arwi schools functioning in Malaysia, Myanmar and Pakistan."; "atrocities" of the Portuguese etc.)
- File:ArwiRIP.jpg seems not to depict an Arabic-Tamil inscription. As far as I can see, the text is in plain Arabic.
- I think I've addressed the issues, and I removed the 'attention needed' tag in the project box. I'd moved this article once before, and it was moved back to 'language', so this time I've made it clearer that it's not a language. — kwami (talk) 21:09, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
As of 2009-08-14, the article claimed [Arwi] can be considered the Dravidian equivalent of Swahili. However, according to the Thorsten reference, Arwi is basically Tamil in Arabic script with some Arabic influences. So if Arwi "is like Swahili" (presumably meaning "is the lingua franca of the Dravidian peoples") then Tamil ought to be too. Could someone please clarify this issue? Thanks, and all the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 01:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
have several books in arwi
hi, i'm not english user sorry for poor English. my grand mother uses on of the book, which is written in arwi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shameermbm (talk • contribs) 14:00, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
As written in the articles Extinct language, Arabic alphabet, Languages of Sri Lanka Arwi is a language. I would prefer the moves by User:Kwamikagami would be reverted. Kwamikagami claims there is no such language. Are all these other articles wrong? But on 16 March 2009 Kwamikagami was talking about Arwi as a language , so maybe his current view is only temporary.
Also Kwami deleted the language infobox .
I have reinstated Arwi script.
- We don't use Wikipedia as a source for Wikipedia. Read WP:RS. You need to demonstrate that it's a separate language. — kwami (talk) 01:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- AFAIK Arwi is not a "language", it's just Tamil written in Arwi. See comments above. Also, Arwi script is a WP:CONTENTFORK and so should be merged. Having two articles, 'Tamil written in the Arwi alphabet' and 'The Arwi alphabet used to write Tamil', adds no content. — kwami (talk) 01:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose Regardless of any opinions about whether this is, or is not, a language, it is not appropriate to merge the page into a disambiguation page, particularly one that links to a settlement and an airport! Skinsmoke (talk) 19:22, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Things have been moved around. The dab page was just created. The point is to merge the content forks; the dab page can go under (disambiguation) if you like. — kwami (talk) 22:37, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Arwi (Arabized Tamil) is not extinct. I see the word "extinct" is misleading. Arwi is still used by old generations (such as parents and grandparents) in some areas. Also, there are thousands of (may be more) literary works still available in Arwi. Also, Arwi is generally used by the Nabawiyyatul Qadiriyya, a Sufi order in Sri Lanka for religious teachings etc.--Fahim (talk) 07:05, 20 December 2012 (UTC)