Talk:As I Lay Dying (band)

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Why is their religion in the lead? The article even has a Christian faith section. I just don't get it, Christianity is the only religion that ppl try to stick in the lead sentence if the members are of that religion. I don't ever see Mormon rock, or atheist rock, etc. Why can't they just be a regular band with Christian members? Landon1980 (talk) 22:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Because saying "metalcore band with Christian members" sounds weird. This is the best way to put it without directly putting "Christian metalcore" in the infobox. It's not saying that the band is "Christian metalcore", it's saying it's a Christian band playing metalcore. — FatalError 22:13, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
To add to that, there are separate wikilinks to the Christian and metalcore articles. There is no link to Christian metalcore. And about the Christian faith section, I personally think it's redundant, as it's essentially the same thing as putting "Christian" in the lead, but in a needlessly long way. — FatalError 22:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with most of what you said, but if you just read the article it appears their genre is 'Christian metalcore', especially on the underoath article with nothing separating the two words. Landon1980 (talk) 22:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Also, this article already has a Christian faith section, so why does the band's religion need to be in the lead? Landon1980 (talk) 02:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I still completely disagree with your point of view, IronCrow, but since the discussion is over, I'm not going to argue anymore about "christian metal", at least not here. However, yes, there are some users that think AILD is a melodic death (Shadows Are Security)/deathcore (Shadows Are Security)/thrash metal (An Ocean Between Us) band. Yeah, even Mathcore (taking as an example "Distance is Darkeness") what is completely wrong. About the christian thing, we can do two things : remove the "Christian Faith" section OR remove "christian" from the first paragraph and simply leave the "Christian Faith" section --Kmaster (talk) 02:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem with the Christian faith section is that it's just a quote. This is an encyclopedia, so I think it would be better to specifically state their religious views in the first sentence than have a random quote explain it halfway through the article. We need to either rewrite the section or remove it completely, because as it is, it's not worth keeping. Let's discuss further on my talk page, so we don't have to jump from article to article. — FatalError 03:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
When asked if they are a Christian band, the band simply stated YEAH. TThe openign paragraph IS NTO REFERING TO GENRE. It's refering to classification. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
You still don't understand that a 'Christian band' does not mean they play Christian music, the music they play is metalcore. In genre related terms they are a metalcore band. Landon1980 (talk) 02:51, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Now you're being silly. Don't give me that. I know what it means. Please see my talk page. A Christian band DOES play Christian music. Do you have a source that says otherwise? No. Wikipedia's article on Christian Music - read it up. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 03:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Read this and this, for your further replies please. --Kmaster (talk) 03:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't give me the WP:Civil. I'm not in a bad mood right now and I'm not trying in any way to be rude, so stop, please. Again, you have no source that states a Christian band doesn't play Christian music. That's absurd. If they didn't they wouldn't be called a Christian band. Secondly - I give up, completely. This is, as I said before, much like the Ejaculation article. I'm going to stop replying to you guys, and I'm going to end this conflict. Eventually, someone is going to add it back any ways, so I'm not worried. I just quit. I can not believe that you guys are editing like this, it's ridiculous. WP:COMMON. Please, in your future edits, read that and take it to heart. Don't be abuse it though, i've seen editors do that. I'm tired of proving my case time and time again. Christian bands play Christian music. There's anot a single band out thatere... nevermind, I said I'd quit. If I didn't know any better, I'd say there's sockpuppetry going on, but... I guess I'll just use that old quote "If you are still arguing, have you really won?" I'm done. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 04:01, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
You are being uncivil and you are taking things too seriously. Is not sockpuppetry, it just a couple of users that disagree with your point of view. You have to understand that you are not always right.--Kmaster (talk) 18:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Tim Lambesis said clearly that they're a Christian band. The term Christian band is a Christian concept, that the musicians play with Christian purpose, that are be praise God and spread the Gospel. (JoaquimMetalhead (talk) 00:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC))
Tim Lambesis never said the group is a Christian band. AILD is not a Christian band. • GunMetal Angel 01:27, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Watch this video: at 0:37 seconds in Tim says AILD is a Christian band, therefore saying that AILD "never have stated they are a Christian band" is totally false. (talk) 05:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)KevinB
I believe that there should be a link in the genre section of the infobox to Christian metal. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:02, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Has anything changed since the previous discussions to merit it? Xombie (talk) 22:06, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

{outdent|::::::}} I'm not entirely sure what you think the conclusion was. It could be that Christian metal is not a genre. It could be that the band is not a Christian metal band. Since both are incorrect. All of the news sources I have seen label the band as Christian metal so it would be odd to even assume there's not a RS. So to answer your question, yeah, a lot has changed. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe the Christian reference should be removed. The band does not express this belief anymore - see this reference. [1] Gtamorim (talk) 08:32, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Christian metal[edit]

Since it's kind of annoying having to jump from article to article, let's discuss the issue here. — FatalError 03:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I really don't know what else to say, I've made most of my points already. I have nothing against Christianity I'm a Christian myself. I just feel that the bands that aren't in the Christian music genre shouldn't have it in the lead right beside the genre. I make mistakes just like everyone else, I might not be right it's just my opinion. I hate edit warring so I'll not be reverting anyone's changes from here on out regarding this. I changed the lead on the underoath article to say they are a metalcore band comprised of Christian members; I'm sure that edit will last a long time :). Landon1980 (talk) 03:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Like I said, I have mixed feelings about this. I think that the band's religion is not really that important to the article, but I still think we should mention it because it's good to know. However, like someone pointed out, you don't see any "Mormon rock" bands running around anywhere, so that makes me wonder if the religion is really important enough to put into the lead. Even look at the article for Creed, which makes no reference to their Christian faith (except in the "Controversies" section, which is completely original research). Thoughts? — FatalError 03:45, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't know, other editors seem a little touchy about this and I'm not out to piss anyone off. I completely agree that band's that are closely tied to Christianity should mention so in the article, I don't even care for it being in the lead I just don't think it should be directly beside their genre. I think that if the band isn't a full-blown Christian whatever band they should not be labeled as one. Most of these bands do not want to be labeled as one either just because they are Christians, some do others do not want to 'pigeon hole' themselves, because a lot of ppl will not listen to a band just because of it. Landon1980 (talk) 03:53, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I completely agree with you. The problem arises when editors use Christianity as a label more than an actual piece of information. For bands that want to be labeled Christian rock/metal, awesome, good for them, but for the bands that don't, I feel it would be better to mention their religion elsewhere in the article. The problem is that I don't think it's important enough to have its own section (except maybe for those bands that sell their music with their religion), so where else would it go? — FatalError 03:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm like you, I want it there I just know where to put it. I do think it is a problem that needs fixed, on most of the articles on bands with Christian members that I have seen Christianity is one of the key points of the article. Like you said, it seems to be a label other than information. If you will look most of the sources for the Christian genre in the infobox merely say they are Christians, or say they are a Christian band. Landon1980 (talk) 04:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. So we need to decide where to put it. All the ways I can think of would sound awkward. "A metalcore band composed of Christian members" souds weird. Maybe add a second sentence? Something along the lines of, "The band is composed completely of Christian members.<reference here>" — FatalError 04:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
The latter sounds good to me, I just wonder if others will agree? Landon1980 (talk) 04:23, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. I think we need to remove "christian" from the first paragraph and add a second sentence. Or rewrite the Christian Faith section.--Kmaster (talk) 04:24, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I don't see a point for the Christian faith section on the As I Lay Dying article. For August Burns Red it actually serves a purpose, because they specifically said they don't like the "Christian metalcore" label, and that's the point of the paragraph, but As I Lay Dying did not say anything like that, they just mentioned that they were Christians. — FatalError 04:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I personally think a second sentence would best suit that particular article. Landon1980 (talk) 04:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. Same for the Underoath article? — FatalError 04:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

HAHA I was edit conflicted on the article doing the same thing you just did. Yes, let's try it on the Underoath article and see what others think. Landon1980 (talk) 04:36, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Hah nice. Too fast. =P Finished with Underoath. I got distracted by the many other mistakes in the article so it took me a while. You can change it around if you think I put it in a bad spot, I don't really care. Let's see how long that lasts before someone reverts it. — FatalError 04:50, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
No, I think where you put it is fine. I hope others are satisfied; I don't see why they wouldn't be. Landon1980 (talk) 05:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
That would be because I didn't know how, thanks for doing that. I made the user page just to have one, I don't know how to do anything to it. Landon1980 (talk) 05:18, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, okay. Well there you go. Cheers. — FatalError 05:23, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
So far so good, still early though. Landon1980 (talk) 16:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Landon, the band states specifically that they are a "Christian band." Whether you like it or not,, this went through a consensus and you edited against it. That is what the band considers themselves. Yes, it is a religion, but classifying themselves as a "Christian band" is quite different than jsut classifying genre. I kept it out of the infobox because the band plays metalcore, so i kept Christian out of it. I edited it back into the main paragraph because there are at least three or four cources that say they are a "Christian band." The sources state that. This is not a place for you to put what you think about a band. The sources provide what to place. Please do not edit it back out because this is getting irritating. Incredibly irritating. There was a long, (INCREDIBLY long) conversation and debate about this and the descisionwas to keep "Christian" in the opening paragraph. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 23:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Also: Fatla - there are also other bands taht have religious "genres" or "labels." There's Jewish Rap, there's Muslim Rock (it's called something else), and others. Since we live in a world that is predominatly Christian or with Christian influence, we see it more often. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 23:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC) You are also compelteing neglecting this entire paragraph:

Bassist Grant Brandall has explained that Underoath's music has been influenced by various bands such as Refused, At The Drive-In, Jimmy Eat World, and Radiohead.[6] Underoath's members are openly Christian and have stated on numerous occasions that they are a Christian band. However, as vocalist Spencer Chamberlain explains, "[We are Christian but] in a different way. We’re not like your average Christian band."[10] He further explains that Christianity is the "backbone of our lives, especially in the way that we handle certain things, but it’s not so much the backbone of our lyrics. It’s not like every song is a lesson from the Bible or something. It’s just normal life struggles."[10] Keyboardist Christopher Dudley had also stated that a majority of Underoath's audience is not Christian, nor are the bands they would often tour with.[1] Though the band has been noted for "setting precedent in both Christian rock and beyond", only a portion of their albums are sold in the Christian marketplace.[33] Chamberlain said, "I look at us as just another band in the secular market like with all these other hardcore bands and we just happen to be a Christian band that has different beliefs."[16]

The sources all state the bands are Christian: This is both with the As I Lay Dying and underoath Articles... Please stop remvoing them. When asked if they were a Christian band, As I Lay Dying Said "YEAH." I showed you the source... There's also the thing with Underoath. There was a huge discussion on whether or not to classify them as a Christian band and the band stated that they are. You also forget we have the Christian category for a reason. This is REALLY starting to piss me off, especially since you are editing in the middle of a conflict. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:03, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
First of all, you reverted a lot of my edits that had nothing to do with the religion; next time, please check the edits before blindly reverting them. Second of all, we still have "Christian" in the first paragraph, so I don't see what the problem is. Read the second sentence: "The band's entire line-up consists of Christian members." What's the difference between being a Christian band and being a band with Christian members? You seemed to support AILD's quote about that, so what's the problem here? — FatalError 00:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
You don't seem to get the point, we know they are a Christian band, but that doesn't mean we have to put it in the lead. As AILD said, what's the difference between a Christian band and a band with Christian members? — FatalError 00:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
And lastly, keep your cool. Don't get pissed off about some random debate on Wikipedia with people you don't even know. We're just trying to improve the article, and your attitude is not helping. — FatalError 00:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't keep this up anymore... You still seem to forget that this has been an open debate with no consensus. I have a right to get pissed off when people keep doing that. I have a right to get pissed off when what I've been trying to do has been thrown out with no consensus on my part. "Christian" is the classification of the band. Taking out "Christian" takes away half of what a band is. I give up - this is almost as ridiculous as the Ejaculation page debate. My attitude comes from me getting off work at a bad time. Icomes from me working on these articles to keep them improved, and people do junk like this. There's no way I can keep that. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

But you're the only one that is arguing for your position. The rest of us have reached a consensus. "'Christian' is the classification of the band." Why is the religion so important? Bands aren't classified by religion, they are classified by their music. Underoath doesn't sell music with their religion, they sell it with their music. The band's religion is not as important as you give it credit for; it's just another fact about the band. — FatalError 00:18, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
No. That's not right. "Bands aren't classified by religion, they are classified by their music." That's not true. Read "Christian Music." Of course it's a classification. And of course I'm the only one aruging my point - all the rest of the editors who argued this point had reached a consensus and the debate "ended." The band is labeled as a "Christian band." It's as simple as that. What I've done, including the sources, are gone. You could at least put them somewhere else (like in their appropriate section), but no, you refuse to. I say at least keep the Chrsitian faith section in now. There was no consensus - it was you and another editor posting what YOU wanted. I was left out entirely. I don't care anymore. My input was for nothing. iw asted all of this time, using sources, policy, etc., and all fo it is now for nothing. All I ask is to keep Christian in the opening paragraph, it's a classification. That's all I wanted in the article, simple as that. But no. It can't be done because you think it isn't a classification, when, according to the many "Christian music" - related articles, it is. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Um, "Christian" is still in the first paragraph, I thought I made that clear. The sources and everything are still there. Read the actual article. I don't see your problem. The debate earlier was about whether to put "Christian" in the infobox or the article, and the consensus was to keep it in the article. Completely different debate; I kept it in the article, I just moved it one sentence down. — FatalError 00:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

"All the band Memebers are Chrsitian" isn't saying they are a Christian band, I thought I made MYSELF clear. I don't see it in the As I Lay Dying Article either. All the band members being Christian doesn't mean that they are a Christian band. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC) EDIT: it's only in the As I Lay Dying article because I added it back in, by the way. Underoath's article should have it in the opening simply because they state that they are a Christian band in a more clear way than As I Lay Dying did. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Like I said before, what's the difference between being a Christian band and being a band with all Christians? You keep failing to answer that because there is no difference. As I Lay Dying even said so! — FatalError 00:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
That's original research. Please do not put words in my mouth either. Many, infact most people know that there is a difference between the two, please read the articles I showed you. AILD just believes that there isn't, so they think of themselves as both. I didn't say that I believed there was no difference, nor did I say that I believed As I Lay Dying's words on that aspect. Underoath states that they simply are a Christian band and that they classify themselves as such. That's why it should stay. That's all I ask, that's all.¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:46, 22 June 2008 (UTC) EDIT: I'd also like to add that another reason I'm saying put it in the intro paragraph is simply because of this debate. The band says over and over again that they are a Christian band, and it has made way for debates on both sides of the argument. The intro is a summary. Simply stating that they are all Christians is implying that they are just that, only Christians in a band, when there is a difference. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 00:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I just want to say, The band has stated that there's no difference between being a Christian band and being a band with all Christians, so why is this so important and irritating to you? I personally think this "faith" thing should be noted not in the first sentence, it should be on the second one, becuase it's less confusing and more explanatory. AILD is a music band, we have to focus their music, not their faith. Anyway it should be noticed on the article that they're christian, because it's relevant, but not THAT relevant (Heh, you will never see AILD playing on a church) Same thing with Underoath. and I have told you a million times, interviews (FAQ) are not valid sources, so don't use them. And this goes for you two, Do not edit the article before giving a proper reason, we don't want to start an edit war.--Kmaster (talk) 02:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
EDIT: Interviews are not valid sources when we are talking about a band's music genre, so I think they're valid this time, my bad.--Kmaster (talk) 02:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Christian isn't a genre specifically, it's a classification, so yes, an interview as a source works. A third party source cannot tell a band that they are a Christian band - the band does it themselves. If we were to use only third party sources for genre, I can guarentee you we souldn't get Slayer, Megadeth, or Pantera's genre straight. It's as simple as that. And Christian bands don't always play in churches - infact, hardly any of them actually do, so your point is moot. And again, just because you think that their Christianity doesn't matter, it's a big deal to the band and notable simply because it is a big issue with a band, especially since it makes it into their FAQ. FAQs can be used as a source. If third party sources stated that Tim Lambesis was homosexual and he stated in his FAQ that he isn't, where would we go from there? Again, YOU don't decide whether they are a Christian band, nor do you decide if it is a big deal. That's original research and has no place here. Being a "Christian band" is a big deal, both commerically, musically, and to the bands. That's why Wikipedia has a category for it. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 02:52, 22 June 2008 (UTC) EDIT: Also wanted to add that if you don't think taht Christian is part of their classification, then why the heck are you saying an interview isn't a viable source for saying they are a "Christian band?" Again, just because you don't think Christian bands exist doesn't mean Wikiepdia thinks the same. You said "my bad," but you're still using that, that's what you've used to discuss your end of the points. That's contridicting yourself. And don't say they don't concentrate on their faith, if you read those sources, they saying that being a Christian effects everything they do. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 02:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

So if a band is inspired by reading short stories and watching the sunset, and they turn to these two things for comfort and it fuels what they do we should put in the lead sentence 'short-story rock' and they are a 'sunset band', right? Before Christian is in the very first sentence the band needs to make actual Christian music, meaning their product must be 'Christian whatever' If a Christian grows a tomato it is still just a tomato, it isn't an 'anointed Christian tomato' Landon1980 (talk) 03:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
>>Christian isn't a genre specifically, it's a classification, so yes, an interview as a source works. A third party source cannot tell a band that they are a Christian band - the band does it themselves. If we were to use only third party sources for genre, I can guarentee you we souldn't get Slayer, Megadeth, or Pantera's genre straight.
Wow, I told you it was a mistake, you don't need to argue about that, stop being so whine.
>>And Christian bands don't always play in churches
I was joking lol, that why there's a "Heh".
>>just because you think that their Christianity doesn't matter.
You are the only one person here that takes AILD faith too serioulsy. And many users have agreed with my point of view. You forgot to type "...just because you ALL think...".
>> FAQs can be used as a source. If third party sources stated that Tim Lambesis was homosexual and he stated in his FAQ that he isn't, where would we go from there?
Again, I told you, my bad, how many times I have to say that? I understand you are irritated but just take a big deep breath, and read what you type before posting. And most important, be civil.
>>Again, YOU don't decide whether they are a Christian band, nor do you decide if it is a big deal.
So you do? I am not deciding anything, I'm not even editing the page, However you continously edit and edit again the page, like if you had the last word on this.
>>That's original research and has no place here.
I have not made any research here, I'm just defending my point of view, and other users agree with that, following the Wikipedia standards at all time, that's why I told you that interviews are not valid sources when we were talking about the bands genre.
>>Being a "Christian band" is a big deal, both commerically, musically, and to the bands.
Now that's original research.
>>That's why Wikipedia has a category for it.
Irrelevant, Wikipedia has a category for everything, that's why it's called an Encyclopedia.--Kmaster (talk) 03:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Kmaster - You still ahven't read the pages for Christian music, rock, metal, etc. It clearly states that they are Cross-genre terms. "Again, YOU don't decide whether they are a Christian band, nor do you decide if it is a big deal." - If the band says they are a Christian band, I'm not the one deciding it, am I? "...I told you that interviews are not valid sources when we were talking about the bands genre." - If you think Christian isn't part of their genre, then the interview would be a valid source. Also, not all of them are interviews. I gave a third party source and you ignored it. I've already discussed your otehr points. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 16:26, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I have read the Christian metal yes, it states ON SECOND PARAGRAPH that they are Cross-genre terms. TERMS. TAGS. not music genre. But, in the first sentence we find this: "Christian metal is a form of heavy metal music" And we all disagree with that. That's all. Have you ever read christian hardcore article? "Christian hardcore refers to hardcore punk and metalcore bands that promote Christian beliefs" it's contradicted with christian metal isn't it? Yes, the bands says they are a Christian band, but they also said that there is no difference between a band with christians and a christian band, so why it's so important to you the christian band tag and not otherwise?--Kmaster (talk) 18:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
This talk has nothing to do here, I'm going to move it to Talk:As I Lay Dying (band)--Kmaster (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I've ended this arugument. I'm too old to keep it up, I guess. I'm amazed at how you'd edit without concerning my views, but oh well. I'm really done. This is the lamest discussion I've ever been in, no offense to you, I know you are acting in good faith, but saying something similiar to "A Christian band does not play Christian music" is laughable. Adios and happy editing. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 04:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

This is how it ended on the Family Force Five article, he gave up and accused everyone of sock puppetry. I don't understand you, you admit that the genre of the bands in question is metalcore, yet you say their music is Christian music. They aren't making music for only Christians, they are doing it for everyone. I just don't see the problem here, the first paragraph still clearly states the members are Christians. If the bands do not make music of the Christian genre the word Christian does not need to be beside their genre in the lead sentence. The bands that do fit the Christian genre(s) it belongs there. This seems like a no-brainer to me. Landon1980 (talk) 04:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I didn't accuse anyone of sockpuppety, I said, "If I didn't know any better." You are uncivil as they come. And Christian music is not for just Christians - THat's one of the points of Christian music, to be outreach not internal. They state they are a Christian band. it's as simple as that. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 16:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

If anyone is being uncivil, it's you. And just for some advice, "if I didn't know any better" means you meant it. But anyway, I still have mixed thoughts about this. On one hand, I agree that the band should not be labeled "Christian metal" just because their members are Christian. This is especially true for Underoath (I don't know about AILD), because their lyrics have nothing to do with religion, which contradicts the definition of Christian music/metal. (That's not original research, that's straight from the article.) However, I have to agree with IronCrow on the fact that there are numerous sources that speficially call them a Christian metalcore band, and sources are a big deal in Wikipedia. So while I don't think it's necessarily "right", I think writing "Christian metalcore" would be more appropriate for an encyclopedia. However, I'll wait for another opinion before saying more. — FatalError 23:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

No, Christian metalcore is exactly like the "christian metal" problem, we're talking about music genres, not tags. Christian metalcore is not a finished article anyway, so that wouldn't help. Heres the deal:
1) As I Lay Dying is a metalcore band from San Diego, California. Formed in 2001, the band's line-up consists of vocalist Tim Lambesis, drummer Jordan Mancino, lead guitarist Nick Hipa who is originally from the Philippines, rhythm guitarist Phil Sgrosso, and bassist Josh Gilbert, all of whom are Christians.[2][3][4] Signed to Metal Blade Records, As I Lay Dying has released four studio albums, one split album, and one compilation album.

As I Lay Dying is a Christian[5][6][7] metalcore band from San Diego, California. Formed in 2001, the band's line-up consists of vocalist Tim Lambesis, drummer Jordan Mancino, lead guitarist Nick Hipa, rhythm guitarist Phil Sgrosso, and bassist Josh Gilbert. Signed to Metal Blade Records, As I Lay Dying has released four studio albums, one split album, and one compilation album.

We just have to decide what goes first. I personally think option number 1 is the most appropiate. What do you guys think?--Kmaster (talk) 23:22, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't mean to use Christian to describe the genre, we already went over that. But I'm just saying that sources specifically call them a Christian band. I don't know...I'm still undecided. I think we should wait for another opinion. — FatalError 23:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, you guys know where I stand regarding this. We all know Underoath's genre is metalcore. So I think it should be like every other article on wikipedia and the lead describe them in genre terms, not religion. I see no need to do things different here. Landon1980 (talk) 23:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Funny, they're having a lot of the same debates on the talk page of the List of Christian metal bands article. And As I Lay Dying and Underoath are both on the list. — FatalError 00:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Even more funny, IronCrow edit all those articles, most frequently the christian metal one (talking about original research huh?) I agree with you Landon, but there's thousand of sources saying that AILD is a "christian (tag) metalcore (genre)" band, that's the problem.--Kmaster (talk) 00:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but it is clearly a tag, it is undisputed that the band's genre is metalcore. Iron Crow even uses first-party sources because according to him the tag has nothing to do with their genre. To be 'Christian________' aren't they supposed to have Christian themes and lyrics? I know I keep saying this, but on every other article the describes the band in genre related terms, why should it be different here? It's like he doesn't even read my comments, he repeatedly says that I say Christian bands do not play Christian music. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a bands genre the kind of music they play? For example 'alternative rock' bands play alternative rock 'Christian rock' bands play Christian rock and so on. Landon1980 (talk) 02:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I swear this is why i made the "Christian Faith" section long ago, to show that the band are Christians but they don't actually play Christian music. Isn't that the best solution? Jakisbak (talk) 21:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I just got done reading this section and I have to say... I agree with Ironcrow up there. Now please here me out before you all jump on me. While some of the points you make are true, I have read through the bands articals and sources and all, and while it says there lyrics aren't about normal christain stuff, they're still christain. Take Underoath for example, they have said that they don't write the usual christain lyrics, but they write them all from a Christain's point of view. Also, people say that Underoath's and As I Lay Dying's lyrics are not christain, however if you look at them and read them you'll find that they have really deep christain meaning to them. I agree that they are a christain band and should be listed as such. Besides, a christain band is a band with all members who are christain. What's wrong with listing them as such? I'm sorry but I don't get it.Emo777 (talk) 07:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
You haven't read the discussion. It's about the "christian metal" tag, not if "are they a christian band or not". Doesn't matter if they're christian or not, AILD is a metalcore band, that is what we were discussing, their genre, not their faith. There is a consensus and any edit would be reverted.--Kmaster (talk) 05:25, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I have read the discussion, i'm sorry if my response was a little bit long, but what I was trying to say was that I think they should be listed as Christain Metalcore. If we all agree they're christain and that they're metalcore, what's wrong with christian metalcore? No one had a problem with it before hand, why now?Emo777 (talk) 19:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
If you truly have read the discussion you should know why. Christian is their religion, metalcore is their genre and putting the two together looks as if their a 'Christian metalcore' band, not a Christian 'metalcore' band. Look around wikipedia, the lead is for the band's genre, not religion. I don't see the problem here, the first paragraph is very clear that all the band members are Christians. In genre related terms their not a Christian band, their a metalcore band. The only way this band is a 'Christian band' is by personal perception, meaning some think them being Christians make them a 'Christian band'. There is no need in continuing this discussion, we have already covered everything. We're doing nothing but beating a dead horse. If you implement your change here are you going to go around to the band articles with atheist members and change their lead to a 'Atheist____' band, and to the ones that the members are Mormons to a 'Mormon band'? Before Christian is in the lead sentence it needs to be the band's genre, and that isn't the case here, we do all agree on that. Landon1980 (talk) 19:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
That's right, and there is not even a real Christian metalcore article yet. (but I think it should stay that way, until another christian music fan come here claiming "Christian metalcore" to be a real music genre, or something like that)--Kmaster (talk) 04:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

First of all guys, if you go to AILD's wikipedia page you can see what the band has to say about this, it should answer the questions to this arguement. And secondly the big mistake you are making here is also argueing over whether its Christian music or metal. The answer is both, they are a Christian band but there music isn't just simply Christian, it's also metal. Their music isn't Christian as in the genre Christian, rather they are metal and they are Christian and it influences their lyrics and lifestyles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Just a thought, and I know this whole conflict is old news, but if what Iron Crow said is just true about the band considering themselves Christian, then the the line in the "Christian Faith" section (the section which I believe was developed out of poor wikipedia article building skills) which is cited and states "He also mentioned that the lyrics to most songs "are about life, struggles, mistakes, relationships and other issues that don't fit entirely in the spiritual category." really contradicts to what a lot of people saying. It's really silly, because people who are labeling AILD as CCM contradicts what Tim Lambesis was saying when he stated that he didn't know the difference between five Christians in a band and a Christian band. They don't want to be labeled, and that's what people on this talk page are doing.
Let's sum up what everyone before me with my opinion is trying to say- Regardless of their personal beliefs, the music of As I Lay Dying would not be considered CCM or anything related. That sounds better, right? WiiAlbanyGirl (talk) 16:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

"Christian faith" section[edit]

I agree with removing Christian metalcore from the genre list; I understand the argument that this is a culture/scene and not a genre. I will not argue with removal of "Christian" from the first paragraph, since to some points of view the band is not clearly a Christian band. However, this lack of clarity requires explanation in the article -- rather than saying "AILD is a Christian band" or "AILD is not a Christian band", the best option is to let the band speak for itself. Jpers36 (talk) 20:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

We agreed that it was redundant, [1] that's why.--Kmaster (talk) 21:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
There was no agreement that the "Christian faith section" is redundant -- in fact, the general consensus was that it should stay. Only IronCrow and FatalError suggested it might be redundant, while you, me, Riverpeopleinvasion, and RonJames007 agreed that it should stay. As you said, "Yes, it is different, but has nothing to do with the musical genre. Same thing with Queercore bands or Straight Edge bands. That's why it should not be listed on the infobox and it should be not removed the "Christian Faith" section (like IronCrow did)." Jpers36 (talk) 21:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

haha i remember making that section Jakisbak (talk) 21:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was making emphasis that no one can come here and remove a section without giving a proper discussion first. That's why. And there is an agreement about the Christian Faith. Just read : I said "I think we need to remove "christian" from the first paragraph and add a second sentence. Or rewrite the Christian Faith section." then, FatalError "Personally, I don't see a point for the Christian faith section on the As I Lay Dying article. For August Burns Red it actually serves a purpose, because they specifically said they don't like the "Christian metalcore" label, and that's the point of the paragraph, but As I Lay Dying did not say anything like that, they just mentioned that they were Christians." and finally, Landon1980 "I personally think a second sentence would best suit that particular article."--Kmaster (talk) 21:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Well personally i think it should stay, it explains their religious beliefs along with their genre. Jakisbak (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't care either way, just whatever you guys think is best for the article. Landon1980 (talk) 00:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
The section is completely redundant. It is the exact same thing as stating that the band is Christian, but it instead takes up a whole section of the article. And having an entire section for one quote looks bad and is pointless. Now, if the section were to be rewritten in a way that it actually served a purpose other than taking up unneeded space (no offense to the author), then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but as it is, there is no reason it should be kept in the article. I instead think that quote should be used as a reference for the fact that they are Christian. — FatalError 01:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
But the very problem is that certain editors (Kmaster, for one) claim that the quote does not state that the band is Christian. Instead of pushing the Christian / not Christian angle, the compromise would be to use the direct quote instead. Jpers36 (talk) 02:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
But just placing the quote there does nothing. Like I said, if the section were to be rewritten to describe the quote, using pieces of it as citations, that would be fine, but a sole quote with nothing behind it doesn't help the article at all. Not to mention it looks bad. And Kmaster didn't say the quote doesn't state that the band is Christian, he is trying to say that having Christian members does not make a band Christian, which has nothing to do with the quote. — FatalError 02:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that a rewrite would be fine. Jakisbak (talk) 10:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) Ok, so I might be getting Kmaster and Jpkmaster mixed up -- are they the same? If so, is Kmaster in agreement that As I Lay Dying is a Christian band? Jpkmaster stated, 'There are diferences between Christians playing in a band and a Christian band, that's why he said "I'm not sure".' I took this to mean that Jpkmaster reads the quote as not saying that AILD is a Christian band. On the other hand, I read the quote as saying that AILD is a Christian band. In order to avoid arguing over our differing readings of the quote, I thought we came to a consensus that the quote itself should stand instead of our interpretations of it, in order to avoid an edit war as well as possible OR issues. Jpers36 (talk) 13:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

As I said before, I don't really object or support the section, but I would like to see the section rewritten. In it's current form it serves no purpose but taking up space doing something that is already done. I don't like how bare quotes look either. If one of you would rewrite the section to make it work that would be nice, if not I will give it a try. Writing isn't one of my strong points, but I will see what I can do if no one else wants to. Landon1980 (talk) 15:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
You can not use that quote as saying that AILD is a Christian band, you can only use it for proving that AILD can't see a difference between a Christian band and a band with Christians. However you can quote that AILD is a Christian band with other sources, like interviews. I wouldn't mind if you guys want to rewrite the Christian faith section, I was just discussing the IronCrow's christian metal tag as a real music genre (wich is, completely incorrect).--Kmaster (talk) 18:01, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I took a stab at it. I'm not the best writer so it probably sucks. If anyone wants to change it around or whatever, feel free. — FatalError 19:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Line "but never have stated they are a Christian band" is untrue and should be removed Watch this video: at 0:37 seconds in Tim says AILD is a Christian band, therefore saying that AILD "never have stated they are a Christian band" is totally false and should be removed. That part should only read "As I Lay Dying have stated on numerous occasions that all of the members of the group are Christians. When asked if they're a Christian band or Christians in a band, (...)". (talk) 05:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)KevinB

That part has been removed since no one protested against not removing it. (talk) 21:50, 21 February 2011 (UTC)KevinB

Honest questions - 16 July 2008[edit]

So, the "Christian music" edit war has spilled over between multiple articles for quite a while by now.
What is the goal?
Do you want the references to "Christian metalcore" as a genre removed in the articles? That is what the debate seems to be about, and it clearly makes sense to remove that genre label where it is inaccurate. But many people seem to want something other than this. Is that correct? Some people have stated that they want all references to Christianity removed from some band articles such as this one, if I have read them correctly.
Why? I am not sure who this would help. Do we want to remove all references to religion from all music articles? Wouldn't that make Wikipedia less complete? Is there a reason to desire this?
Despite the fact that people are continually reiterating that the debate is just about the genre labels, it seems pretty clear to me as a newcomer that the debate has extended to larger things than that. I'd like to know what exactly we are talking about now, because I'm not sure. BecauseWhy? (talk) 19:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I dropped from the debate after it got deeper than just genres. The debate is now about the "Christian band" label in general. The people against it are saying that being a band with Christian members does not make it a Christian band. They are basically saying that, in most cases, the band's religion has little to do with their music, or in fact any other aspect of the band. As Landon1980 said, "I don't ever see Mormon rock, or atheist rock, etc. Why can't they just be a regular band with Christian members?" While I think the argument totally makes sense, I also think it's inappropriate to completely deny all the sources that state that band X is a "Christian band". Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth, and so I think this could technically be considered original research. For example, there are many sources that specifically call Underoath a Christian band, even though the band members have said that Christianity has little to do with their music. I kind of feel like it's one of those A and B, therefore C situations. I have mixed feelings about it though, and thus I am not going to argue either side. But there you go. — FatalError 02:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Personally I didn't care about the genre war until I noticed it started be more than just genre. But I agree with Fatal Error, Landon1980 did make a good point, but I don't think that it should be ignored that they are Christains. I think that if the band says they're a Christian band the label should be allowed to go in the lead, but if they say they're Christains but not really a Christain band (like August Burns Red) then it shouldn't, but that's just me.Emo777 (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, here are my thoughts. First, genres in general need better sourcing. I'm now starting to see editors say, "Song A, B, C, and D are this genre, therefore the artist genre list should include this." That's OR of the most blatant sort. The whole infobox format often throws a wrench into references, sourcing and OR removal, since there's not really much space to explain the genre selection. I'm guessing it's easy to assign genres to acts like Metallica, Randy Travis, and N.W.A. (although I don't watch those articles). It's harder with genre-crossing bands. For example, Blindside: yeah, they fall under the general rock category, and they're hard so I guess they could be called hard rock, and they have a Christian message so it's Christian rock, but there's screaming so maybe hardcore, and their older stuff was Korn-influenced so maybe rapcore, but then they increased their musical complexity to post-hardcore, and they try new stuff out so it's experimental rock, and they're definitely trying to introduce a techno feel to the hard music scene, but then again their tuning might be reminiscent of post-grunge, and of course metal metal metal. We need to source these genres, but we also need space to explicate and contextualize these genres, and the infobox just doesn't give us space to do the latter.
But, on to the Christian thing: I've got no problem falling in with consensus and leaving message aside when dealing with genre, but maybe then we should consider adding a message/theme portion to the infobox. This would serve not only to highlight religious themes (whether Christian rock, Taqwacore, or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir), but also political messages (Rage Against The Machine, Midnight Oil), philosophical messages (anarcho-punk, death metal), or even conceptual themes (Riot grrl, queercore, GWAR, rock operas). Maybe, though, I should be posting all this on some Wikiproject page rather than here. Thoughts? Jpers36 (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I copied and revised my thoughts to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music/MUSTARD. Jpers36 (talk) 16:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

You can now enter As I Lay Dying in the search box!!![edit]

If you type in "As I Lay Dying" in the search box, you will no longer be redirected to the novel. You will be directed straight to the As I Lay Dying (band) page.

If there are any complaints about this change, I will personally rechange it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Homie C (talkcontribs) 08:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

As I Lay Dying disambig[edit]

A few months ago a very limited discussion was held by a few editors on an disambig redirect page. The result was a claimed "consensus" that the article As I Lay Dying should redirect to As I Lay Dying (disambiguation). The reasoning was that a band named after the novel was now more well known than the novel, meaning the main "As I Lay Dying" phrase shouldn't link only to the novel.

The problem is that as it clearly states here, disambig pages should only be created "If there are three or more topics associated with the same term" and if one of the topics isn't the primary topic. That is not the case here. Since the band is named for the book, making the book the primary topic, and the band's album has part of its title taken from the band's name, the proper course is to have a disambig link at the top of the novel article.

If people want to change this guidelines, that is fine. But to do that, we need to have a true consensus building discussion. Please go to this link [2] to voice your opinion on this issue.--SouthernNights (talk) 17:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, there is no conflict here with any guideline. A requested move of the disambiguation page to the base name has been made; see Talk:As I Lay Dying (disambiguation)#Requested move. --Una Smith (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

- If you look here [3] it says that the name of their band has NOTHING to do with the book. Sambarino (talk) 09:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Name taken from Faulkner's book[edit]

From Beneath the Encasing of Ashes and split album (2001−2003) paragraph, it said that the band's name was not taken by the book of the same name although, in the interview in the link provided it is stated otherwise. i read the interview in the link which prompted me to edit what was said before.Hammer of the Gods27 (talk) 04:10, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

- Surely their official FAQ should take precedence over an interview? Sambarino (talk) 09:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

This Is Who We Are[edit]

I Think an article on this should be started. Anyone agree? KezianAvenger (talk) 20:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Is it a single, notable song? No, it's the final track to their fourth album, which really doesn't signify Wikipedia's instance on notability. -- GunMetal Angel 19:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe he is referring to the DVD by the same name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Linkin22luke (talkcontribs) 22:33, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh, well I thought an article was already created for that, haha. • GunMetal Angel 22:04, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

As I Lay Dying plays Groove too[edit]

The best way to explain groove metal with words, is the amalgamation of Thrash and hardcore punk. If you listen to most of their songs, many these lack breakdowns, all of them have the speed and technicality of thrash metal, and a lot of them have solos. So, it is possible to assure that, even though As I Lay Dying still plays metalcore, the heavy influence of thrash and groove are evident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

You could be right, you could be wrong, do you have a source? I hope to, if I ever have time, develop a stylistic section for article, so any sources would be good.--3family6 (talk) 12:25, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I've noticed a few sources that mentioned the band in relation to groove metal, but I think the general consensus is that they're more of a post-thrash/death metal band than in the same category as say, Machine Head and Pantera. Their last couple of albums have definitely been influenced by Sepultura, though. I guess it's a grey area. (talk) 19:48, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Melodic death metal[edit]

While I am sure this will rile up quite a few people, As I Lay Dying is described in two completely different sources as playing melodic death metal in addition to metalcore. While the first ref describes the band as metalcore in the actual biography, it is tagged as melodic death metal, and in this case the band's tags are reliable because attributable to the author of the bio. The second ref also backs this up with "have thrown in melodic death metal flourishes to their sound." While either of these on their own might not be the best, together they are a good reference for the melodic death metal.--3family6 (talk) 03:11, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't see anything that makes [4] reliable. The other one is a good source however. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 03:26, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
The MusicMight ref is attributed to the user Taniwha, which is an alias for the late Gary Sharpe-Young, who apparently was a heavy metal journalist and writer.--3family6 (talk) 03:30, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Ah, then it appears to be reliable (now that I'm searching up his name). I'd support the inclusion of melodic death metal as a genre. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 04:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

It's not really that important. • GunMetal Angel 07:00, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

What isn't that important?--3family6 (talk) 14:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they're melodic death metal influenced, just like every other metalcore band. That doesn't make them melodeath. Just about every modern extreme metal band is influenced by Slayer, but that doesn't mean they're part of the same genre.Ngk44 (talk) 10:43, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

No, they are not just influenced, they are melodic death metal according to the above sources.--¿3family6 contribs 11:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
That's two sources compared to how many that say otherwise? But ok fine, I guess I can see the validity of highlighting their similarity to bands like In Flames and At the Gates. However, if we're going to be thorough, shall we add thrash metal as well? Because I'm aware of several sources that'd give the band's music that label, particularly their latest album. (talk) 19:41, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Thrash I think would be okay, but we want to make sure that the infobox stays broad. For the record, there are no sources that I have found that say otherwise about the band being melodeath. There are sources that mention other styles, but so do the sources that say they play melodeath. Obviously the band plays multiples styles, and I haven't seen any to discredit the melodeath label.--¿3family6 contribs 01:52, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Frail worlds collapse and Shadows are security are both melodic death metal, while shadows is also metalcore. and most of their stuff is melodic metalcore as well, particularly The Powerless Rise. Could it not be put as melodic death metal (early) and thrash metal (recent)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dez Moines (talkcontribs) 03:26, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


The tours section has been tagged with {{unreferenced section}} since December 2011. As the article is rated Good I have moved the informtion here so it won't be lost. AIRcorn (talk) 12:22, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

As I Lay Dying performing at 2006's Hellfest.

In summer 2005, As I Lay Dying played on the Ozzfest Tour's second stage along with Killswitch Engage, Trivium, Rob Zombie, The Black Dahlia Murder, It Dies Today, Bury Your Dead and Arch Enemy as well as others.

They also toured with Slipknot in 2005 as opening acts with Unearth.


In summer 2006, As I Lay Dying, In Flames, Cannibal Corpse, The Black Dahlia Murder, Shadows Fall, It Dies Today, Gwar, Trivium, Evergreen Terrace, The Chariot, Terror, Behemoth, Job for a Cowboy, and Through the Eyes of the Dead.


In summer of 2007, As I Lay Dying performed at the 2007 Warped Tour. In the fall of 2007, they headlined the An Ocean Between Us Tour with support from All That Remains, Haste the Day, and Through the Eyes of the Dead.


In spring of 2008, As I Lay Dying joined the lineup of Soundwave during February and March 2008 in Australia alongside bands Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, Bleeding Through, Haste the Day, and Carpathian.

In summer of 2008 the band made a one-month appearance again on the 2008 Warped Tour from its June 20 to July 18 dates. In addition, As I Lay Dying headlined Cornerstone, Sonshine, and Revelation Generation Festival. They also played at Lifelight, Wacken Open Air, and Bloodsock Open Air, Ichthus, and Dubai Desert Rock Festivals.

In addition to that As I Lay Dying toured with acts such as Evergreen Terrace, August Burns Red and Misery signals in late spring of 08.

In fall of 2008, beginning November 8, 2008, As I Lay Dying headlined the Rockstar Taste of Chaos tour in Singapore, with Story of the Year, and A Vacant Affair as their supporting act. As I Lay Dying also headlined a show in Anaheim, California on November 21 with Bring Me The Horizon, Terror, and Born of Osiris. The Show was filmed for a first ever As I Lay Dying DVD. The band closed their 2008 tour with a performance in Jakarta, Indonesia on November, 30th.


The band toured the US with Protest the Hero, The Human Abstract, and MyChildren MyBride.

As I Lay Dying took part on the No Fear Energy Tour headlined by Lamb of God with main support from themselves and Children of Bodom, and rotating opening slots with God Forbid and Municipal Waste.[8] On July 31 the band appeared on the Inside Out stage at Soulfest, a Christian music festival held in the Gunstock Mountain Resort in New Hampshire.

As I Lay Dying appeared for the first time at Alive Music Festival in Canal Fulton, Ohio. They shared the stage with The Devil Wears Prada, Haste the Day, and Norma Jean. This was the first time that Alive Music Festival had ever featured metal bands.

They toured in October with Senses Fail, Closure and Fact in Moscow. Also in October, the band took a break from the studio to make an appearance at Self Destruct in the Ozarks which was held in Jacket, Missouri. And they also appeared for the first time in Sri Lanka,Colombo.


The band headlined a tour in Europe in support of The Powerless Rise album. The supporting acts were Suicide Silence, Heaven Shall Burn, Sylosis and Adept.


In early 2011 the band headlined a US tour, playing small venues with special guests Winds of Plague and After the Burial. They played Music as a Weapon with Trivium and Disturbed in Australia and New Zealand in early spring.

Summer 2011, they played at Heavenfest in Colorado and a small tour in Europe, and returned in the fall to support Amon Amarth.

A US "Decade of Destruction" tour was announced in support of their 10th Anniversary as a band for November–December with acts Of Mice & Men, The Ghost Inside, Iwrestledabearonce, and Sylosis.


The band played Download Festival, Rock am Ring, and Rock im Park this summer.

The band played the whole Mayhem Festival 2012 along with Slipknot, Slayer, Motörhead, Anthrax, The Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria, Whitechapel, Upon A Burning Body, I the Breather, Betraying the Martyrs and Dirtfedd.

They're supporting Trivium on a fall tour in Europe, along with Caliban and Upon A Burning Body.

They're also playing the Monster Energy Outbreak Tour this winter with Asking Alexandria, Suicide Silence, Memphis May Fire, and Attila.


First off those sources aren't reliable. The first one actually doesn't directly call them melodeath. It just uses it as a tag. It's tags include metalcore, christian hardcore, hardcore punk and stuff. Those are TAGS. Just like you wouldn't source a band's genre for the tags they have on Tags come from users and what they fuse together. the other one says they MIX it with hardcore punk. And on the metalcore page on the melodic metalcore section it says those bands melodic metalcore mix melodeath with hardcore. Which that source says the band do. They called a fusion with melodeath. Meaning they aren't melodeath, they just fuse its elements with hardcore elements. So therefore it's NOT a good source. I'm changing it.

2601:A:4100:5A:E080:C8A:3D49:C9D9 (talk) 03:02, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

The sources ARE reliable. The tags in MusicMight are generated by the staff, not just users as is the case for With Noisecreep, it says they have "flourishes" of melodic death metal, which by itself is not that strong, but it is supported by MusicMight. However, the melodic metalcore info on Wikipedia IS unreliable: Wikipedia cannot source itself, and that section is not sourced properly anyway.--¿3family6 contribs 16:28, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I actually will say reviews by staff websites on music are reliable, however tags are NOT reliable. It calls the band hardcore, christian hardcore and stuff. Allmusic tags are unreliable but their reviews are reliable. Because they describe blink 182 as pop punk but list post grunge in their genre list. Or suicide silence as deathcore but list their band's genre as power metal in it. We know that's apparently false. Tags are just random tags they'll select. Please ask User talk:Walter Görlitz for info. But the flourishes thing was saying they mix it with modern beatdown hardcore. So it's not melodeath, a core-metal style. That's how melodic metalcore however is defined. But you wouldn't call some of its bands as melodeath. So therefore I agree melodeath isn't sourced.

Ihy34 (talk) 01:36, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Why is there reason to suspect the tags on MusicMight? Unlike allmusic, the tags are attributable to the author(s). What is that matter with calling the band hardcore (metalcore is a hardcore/metal combo) and Christian rock and metal the band consists of Christians)? With regard to melodic metalcore, that is probably what style the band falls under. However, there is a significant lack of source material for the melodic metalcore style, and I haven't seen any sources that call the band melodic metalcore.--¿3family6 contribs 12:20, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Chad Ackerman?[edit]

Chad Ackerman claims to have been in As I Lay Dying 2002-3 and having toured with them. True? I don't see him listed under "Past Members".Brianyoumans (talk) 16:49, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

He may claim whatever he wants. Is there a reliable source to support the fact? Are there any other touring members listed in the past members section?
And for the record, the Ackerman article is poorly written and even more poorly sourced. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:14, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, it is. I just reduced the page for one of Ackerman's bands (Count Your Curses) to a redirect because it looks like the band basically went inactive after producing 3 self-released singles - not exactly worth an article. And even after I did a little cleanup, his article is still pretty much a promo. I was hoping someone here would know of a good source for who was considered a member of As I Lay Dying, as opposed to someone just hired on for a tour.Brianyoumans (talk) 14:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)