Talk:As You Like It

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Hampton-in-Arden[edit]

I removed the following. I can find no evidence at all. The play is certainly set in the Forest of Arden. But if this specific village was some kind of inspiration there would be evidence in the text. Where is this evidence?

The real life village of Hampton-in-Arden may have been used as the setting for the play.

Pronounciation of Jacques[edit]

Can anyone help me with this question? AndyJones 09:23, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

At the Royal Shakespeare Company they always pronounce it 'Jake-weez'. Of course, the correct French pronounciation is 'Jzak' (if you see what I mean there). But in Shakespeare's verse the name always has 2 syllables, and 'Jake-weez' is believed to be the way Elizabethan Englishmen pronounced the name. The Singing Badger 12:52, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. That's pretty close to what someone has already put here, so I think I'll let it stand. AndyJones 14:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that it would have been pronounced as just 'Jakes' - i thought this was an in joke - jakes was elizabethan slang for lavatory. i may be embarrassingly wrong though

You're slightly off. True, 'Jakes' was the elizabethan slag for lavatory. However, Jacques explicitly did not want other people calling him that: once Touchstone even goes as far to call Jacques "Master What-you-may-call-it" to avoid calling him 'jakes'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.60.88 (talk) 01:34, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Or two syllables: Ja - cque as in the french nursury rhyme Frere Jacques: Frair-rer Sha-Ker. Jake-weez always sounded ... strange to my ears —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.90.227 (talk) 19:04, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The British were actually poking fun at the French, hence the odd — though intentional and deliberate — "mis"-pronunciation of "Jacques". Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:01, 5 May 2011 (UTC))

removed[edit]

removed the statement that the Forest of Arden was not a real place. It is indeed a forest set outside of Stratford-upon-Avon. William's mother Mary Arden, was a direct decendent of the original owners of the woodlands.

The edition that emends Shakespeare's Arden to "Ardennes' should be identified, if it exists. --Wetman 11:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Homoerotic overtones?[edit]

I'm not sure I see how "Ganymede" carries "homoerotic" overtones. Twin Bird 20:17, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  • No, it's not very clear, is it? Ganymede is sometimes portrayed in a pederastic relationship with the god Jupiter, for example in the opening scene of Marlowe's Dido, Queen of Carthage. It would be good if someone who knows about this could expand upon it, though. Have we got a gay literature page, or similar, where we could post a question? Alternatively, would they know about this at the Virgil page, maybe? AndyJones 15:22, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Golly, there is a gay literature article. I've posted a question there. AndyJones 15:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Also at Virgil. AndyJones 15:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
  • The Greeks and Romans didn't exactly have a word for homosexuality (I'm not even sure if the English did in Shakespeare's time) so references to the relationship between Zeus and Ganymede tend to seem quite oblique (although not to the ancients whose concepts of things were different). There are some examples that make clear the nature of the relationship as it was probably perceived consistently throughout the classical period - have a look at Theognis[1] 1341-1350 for example (a very early author). There's something similar in the much later Achilles Tatius 2 (not on the internet, as far as I'm aware) - two characters debate about whether love of men is preferable to love of women and as support for the former opinion, the relationship between Zeus and Ganymede is cited (AT 2.36). I'm not sure if Shakespeare was aware of either these (I doubt he was somehow) but they show that the overtones were popularly realised. Virgil makes only the vaguest reference. One version of the story that Sh was certainly aware of is by [2] Ovid in the Metamorphoses. I'd say the overtones are certainly there and the article's comment is factually correct. It didn't stop 19th century editors translating Ovid without any apparent embarrassment and denying any overtones.--Lo2u 18:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

AS WE LOVE IT[edit]

All the World Cup's a stage. See Guardian Unlimited, 9 June :-) --John

spellings[edit]

The character list gives Phebe but the synopsis gives Phoebe. Only one can be correct! My memory says Phebe but I don't have an authoritative source to hand. Mooncow 18:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It is "Phebe", I've fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out! 12thwxman 17:46, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The name of the character is Phebe, as per the First Folio. Any other spelling is incorrect.

George Bernard Shaw's criticism of the play[edit]

I've been looking for a source for George Bernard Shaw saying that the title was an indication of the lowbrow nature of the play. I can't seem to find the original source, but I did find another article where someone cited the same fact. The cite given was:

George Bernard Shaw, “Shakespeare and Mr. Barrie,” rprt. in Bernard Shaw: The Drama Observed, ed. Bernard F. Dukore, 4 vols. (University Park: Pennsylvania State Univ. Press, 1993), 3:937–43, 937.

Since I haven't found this article in my school's library (not a very big library to be admitted), could someone with a larger library verify this as a source and then add it in? Fieari 17:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler tags[edit]

This is an encyclopedia. This encyclopedia article is about the Shakespeare play "As You Like It", and being an encyclopedia article it contains a fairly detailed treatment of the plot. The plot summary in this article is helpfully labelled as such: "Synopsis". There is no need for further warning. This is an encyclopedia, and we're not in the business of insulting the intelligence of the readers. --Tony Sidaway 23:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The matter is being disputed on the proper pages, the ones about the template. Go dispute it there.Goldfritha 00:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
The important edits are to be performed on the article, not the discussions. --Tony Sidaway 00:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Nevertheless, if you feel that way, you should be trying to overturn the general principle, not the specific case. --Agamemnon2 17:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Pastoral Reference[edit]

Added A block quote and reference to an English theatre education website that provides supportive material to the Pastoral entry. I used the ref tag to automatically place a footnote and reference (including the URL) at the bottom of the page. Tanstaafl28 19:22, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Nice. Wrad 16:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Music?[edit]

Is it known that Shakespeare wrote music or had music written for the songs in the play? Since it is suggested in the article that the earliest performance may have been well after his death, he may not have had to write music for any performance. I know music that any "original" music no longer exists, but is it known whether there actually was music written by or for Shakespeare? TheHYPO (talk) 16:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Forest of Arden[edit]

I wonder if the article should more accurately state that the "forest of Arden" could be a sexual pun on his mother's name Mary Arden (that is, originating from her sexual organ). CoolDream (talk) 14:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

It's in, but uncited. I'm tagging it. --Old Moonraker (talk) 02:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Forest of Arden[edit]

There is a section in this entry entitled 'setting', discussing a range of theories about what Forest of Arden means. Then in the next section the text links to Wiki's own Forest of Arden entry that confidently describes the area of England, near Stratford Upon Avon, called Forest of Arden. Either the Forest of Arden in the play is the English Midlands area, or it's one of these theories, Wikipedia can't confirm that it is both. Perhaps someone with knowledge of this topic could clarify and clean up the entry. StopItTidyUp (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Original Research[edit]

The OR tag is on the article, but I can see anything referring to it on the talk page. While the article needs better references, none of it seems to be original research. I am removing the tag. --Duncan (talk) 08:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

as you like it pharaphrase[edit]

the song reveals the happiness of life in the forest of arden.the first verse emphasises the peace and freedom people feel in the greenwood it assures people that the hard enemy that could be met in the quiet forest is the cold weather.

2-in the forest ,men forget their ambition ,they enjoy a simple uncomplicated life 8in the perfect contentment —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.232.20.200 (talk) 22:00, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Dramatis personæ for "Characters"[edit]

Wikiproject Shakespeare calls for consistency in the articles dealing with the plays, and uses Characters. WP:MOS doesn't allow deprecates wikilinks in section headers; the fact that the term needs an explanatory link in itself militates against its use. I suggest a RV. --Old Moonraker (talk) 05:49, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

If that is the Project Policy, I was unaware of it. Nonetheless, I cannot think of a better and more appropriate place to use the term "Dramatis personæ". Indeed, this is the exact usage for which the term was intended. If need be, we should re-examine that Project Policy. Why, indeed, would the Shakespeare Project members — of all people — object to the use of this term? We don't need to "dumb everything down". And, people interested in a Shakespeare article likely already know the term "dramatis personæ". And those who are unfamiliar with it would likely have an appreciation for learning (and exposure to) the correct term. This is an encyclopedia, after all ... we are not "catering" to third graders (as the term "characters" seemingly aims to do). Also, regarding the rule about not using links within a header ... the MOS states: "Headings should not normally contain links, especially where only part of a heading is linked." That is, links are not forbidden per se. Rather, they should be used sparingly, when warranted, as an "exception to the general rule". Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC))
Another point – In reading the Dramatis personæ article more closely (just now), it states: "However, the term is closely associated with the works of William Shakespeare and appears in the original publication of the First Folio, published in 1623." That bolsters my points above. Namely, that I cannot think of a better and more appropriate place to use the term "Dramatis personæ". And that, indeed, this is the exact usage for which the term was intended. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:23, 5 May 2011 (UTC))
Another point – Personally, I would prefer the term "dramatis personae" as opposed to "dramatis personæ" (since that last "æ" character is difficult / inconvenient to produce on a keyboard). But, I won't split hairs on that issue. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC))

As with any project policy, this one is always able to be reviewed by project members, but the talk page of the project is the place to initiate that. The article should conform to project policy until the policy is changed by a new consensus. For my part, I would point out that the assumption that the use of the word "characters" is a "dumbing down" is wrong. The term "character" did not come into common use until after the early modern period. Character is now the standard and most common term for what is being described in these sections. It would be anachronistic, not to mention rather pretentious, for a present-day encyclopaedia. Our overriding aim is to communicate clearly using the most common terms, not to initiate the reader in the vicissitudes of the history of the terminology employed by the editors of dramatic texts. It may be appropriate to write a section in the character article that treats the history and relationship to the term dramatis personæ. A section header in the articles treating individual plays is not an appropriate place to enlighten the encyclopaedia's readers. At most, it might warrant a footnote. That it is particularly appropriate for Shakespeare's plays is dubious. Shakespeare himself did not use the term. It was imposed by some of his earlier editors. It doesn't usually appear in Quartos. Many present-day editors do not use it. The New Cambridge Shakespeare, for example, uses "List of characters" while Oxford use "Persons of the play." Dramatis personæ has also been used to describe protagonists (as distinct from characters). Consistency is desirable not merely across the thirty-odd articles on Shakespeare's plays, but across all articles on drama and within the Theatre project as a whole. The term dramatis personæ is associated with old editions of plays (not with old plays studied or performed in the present) and is a function of the dominance of latin in early modern educational practice, something which has long since disappeared. I agree with Moonraker that the necessity for a section header link in itself indicates that the term is undesirable.  • DP •  {huh?} 08:53, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the comprehensive reply ... much appreciated. Also, informative and insightful. While I agree with some of your points, I disagree with others. Nonetheless, quite frankly, I have bigger fish to fry; I have also learned to pick and choose my "battles". This is, at the end of the day, not all that important to me. However, I do indeed think that the term is not only important, but also quite appropriate. As such, I have added it into the "Characters" section, as a prefatory comment. I hope this is an acceptable "quasi"-compromise (i.e., middle ground). Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC))

Eden, Hercules, and ?[edit]

The list of allusions read as follows: "to Eden, to Hercules, and". I made this grammatically correct, but if whoever wrote that has a valid third item, the person should add it.
Robert 00:58, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Minor Characters[edit]

Should we create new pages for the minor characters of As You Like It or merge all the minor characters in a single page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZonMusicStar (talkcontribs) 03:48, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

the title[edit]

what do you guys think about the title of the play.. I reminds of 'What you will', the alternative title of 'Twelfth Night'.Zon (talk) 15:21, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


Motifs[edit]

This section simply rehashes key plot elements, whereas motifs are expected to have symbolic significance. Maybe this play is so rudimentary in construction that there are no motifs worth discussing? if so, this section needs to be removed.Kishorekumar 62 (talk) 17:41, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

By all means feel free to expand on the section if you feel it is lacking. However removal of an entire section should never be done lightly. Mediatech492 (talk) 18:13, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism?[edit]

I have just visited this article this morning (07/03/13) and clearly something is not right with many anachronistic or impossible dates, as well as the caption on the first image.

Not a Wikipedia member so not sure how to flag this up in a more noticeable way!

I'll leave it to an actual Shakespeare expert to make corrections though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.102.168 (talk) 09:54, 7 March 2013 (UTC)