Talk:Ashkelon

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rocket into hospital[edit]

The rocket that hit the Ashkelon hospital did not hit it in may 2008 but earlier, in februray 08: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3512185,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.116.204 (talk) 19:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


Image Size[edit]

The image on this page needs to be reset for a smaller size. Brockthepaine 16:39, 25 Mar 2008

Done - there was some change at WikiMedia which meant that this happened on many pages. The fix: simply to remove the px from after the image size although also in this case the 3 was missing from the main image. Thanks for flagging it up. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 16:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Name: What is Ashqelon-Ashkelon[edit]

How pretentious that Ashkelon is Ashqelon in the English-language Wikipedia, to stroke parochial vanities. Wetman 16:22, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wha...? Where is this coming from? Isn't Ashqelon the official spelling? It was always my understanding that Ashkelon is a media spelling, much like Rechovot instead of Rehovot, or Eilat instead of Elat, or Hawaii instead of Hawai‘i. Ashqelon is also the closest diacritic-free spelling alternate to the academic Standard Hebrew transliteration, Ašqəlon. What's the matter? Who's stroking whose vanities? - Gilgamesh 01:00, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There is no "official" spelling, but Ashkelon is the most common.--Josiah 01:02, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This is what I know. Before recently when I merged Ashkelon and Ashqelon, Ashkelon was about the history of the city (including modern times), and Ashqelon was purely about the Israeli city with a few more specific details on it. It's also been Asqalān in Arabic and Ascalon in Latin. With all the different forms, I thought it proper to unite them under the Standard Hebrew name. - Gilgamesh 02:49, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Also, look at the page history of Ashqelon to see how the article already existed. Since it's the article for the city today, I put Ashkelon's content in the history section then placed a redirect to Ashqelon. And "Ashqelon" is not as uncommon as you may think — there are thousands of Google results for it. There's nothing pretentious about it; it would instead seem to suggest that Ashqelon and Ashkelon are both permissable spellings and neither is necessarily wrong. Also, plenty of other articles for Israeli cities (and Israeli settlements) use Q in the article spelling. See Qiryat Arba. - Gilgamesh 02:55, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

One reason that there was an entry Ashkelon for the ancient city and a separate Ashqelon for the modern one is that the modern city is not historically continuous with the ancient site, nor even exactly on the same ground. (Please click on the link.) "Ashkelon" has been the standard spelling in English print since the 17th century, google-schmoogle. Wetman 01:43, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Alright, I won't dispute it. "Ashkelon" it is. - Gilgamesh 04:23, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Issues regarding using "Canaanite" as a "Hebrew" script[edit]

Please see comments regarding this matter at [1] Thank you. IZAK 08:00, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Changes of Hebrew definitions[edit]

See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#New "twist and turn" as "Hebrew alphabet" is switched to "Hebrew languages" concerning appropriate uses of the word "Hebrew" here. IZAK 05:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

History[edit]

A large chunck of history between Byzantium and the Crusades needs to be filled in. --Yodakii 08:42, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Equaly important, a large chunk of history between 7th Century and 1948 needs to be filled in from the vantage point of its own culture and inhabitants. Al Majdal was not exactly a ghost town unless you consider Arabs or Muslims to be ghosts. It is for this reason that a separate page for AL Majdal is necessary in order to have freedom of thought and justice. This is not intended to be a political argument. I simply don't see how the current page here can survive a transition from a mind-set that is fixated on European events to another that is concerned with local events like any other functional city. It needs to address historical landmarks such as the shrine of Imam Hussein and the fountain of Job (Biblical figure) for example. Users who keep redirecting Al majdal seem to be in denial of the fact that others once inhabited the city for a very long period of time. And that many important historical events took place over there and would need to link to somewhere when the topics are written and cleaned. Thank you for your consideration. HAE


this text has been reverted into a very empty version:

Ashkelon (Hebrew: אַשְׁקְלוֹן‎; Tiberian Hebrew ʾAšqəlôn; Arabic: عسقلانAbout this sound ʿAsqalān ; Latin: Ascalon) is a city in the western Negev, in the South District of Israel. It was established on the area of an the ancient Philistine (an non-semitic sea people unrelated to todays people by similar name). Ashkelon is seaport on the east coast of the Mediterranean Sea just north of Gaza, close to the ruins of the ancient city which existed for over 5000 years. There are about 117,000 citizens in the city. The anciant city was detroyed at 604 BC by the Babilonian king Nbochadnezar and again during the Arab conquest in 1270 AD. An Arab settlement called "Al-Mijdal" was established on the site after the original area was destroyed completely by the Mamluke king Biberes after it had served as a Crusader base. There remained a large Jewish population in the town until the Crusaders invaded the region in 1153. This was the remnant of the population into which Hordus the king had been born, the Jewish King who rebuilt the Second Temple, and also invested in much building efforts in Ashkelon. The city is home to several startigic facilities such as a power plant, a small harbor and one of the world largest de-salinization plant - all located at the southern end of the city. Recently, the area has been a target of Palestinian Kasam rockets fired from Gaza.

i figure there's some good info here which needs to be readmitted, i will maybe give it a go at a later date. Jaakobou 05:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The first requirement is a good source, but that text had no source at all. Second, a lot of that material is already present in the article in a more reliable form. Third, some of this text is pure speculation, such as the claim that the Jewish population in 1153 was a remnant of some population of 1500+ years earlier. This is way, way, more than any actual historical evidence can possibly be found for. We should avoid speculative assertions. Of course, well-sourced data on the Jewish history would be welcome (though not necessarily in the introduction). Also the time of founding of al-Migdal needs a source and besides it was not "on the site" but a few km to the north-east. It wasn't even the closest Arab village to the site (that was al-Jurah). The relevance of al-Migdal to this article is that the houses of al-Migdal were the initial buildings of modern Ashkelon. --Zerotalk 08:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ashkelon is NOT Mijdal[edit]

I am really not sure why all this Mijdal info is in this article.

Ashkelon is a city that existed from biblical times and now a city in modern israel.

Mijdal is a Palestinian village/town that was near by (a bit inland) and no longer exist - it dersve it;s own article like many non exist Palestinians towns.

Sure but Mijdal is a town that has been icluded by the the growing city of Ashkelon. Furthermore in its present day it isnt in possesion of the Palestinian authority, and neither is it included within the 1967 boundaries, nor the armistice line. Zeq 15:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Crusader period History[edit]

I rewrote the Crusader history section for Ashkelon because i thought it was unacceptable considering that this was an important city during that period. I'll do the Roman and Byzantine history at a later date. Hera52 17:51, 01 July 2007

Fair use rationale for Image:AshkelonLogo.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop anti Israeli propaganda on this page.[edit]

Stop declaring lies based on propaganda books about the city of Ashkelon. Whoever is responsible for this page should not allow people to write fake contest under disguise of quoting serious books.

Stop anti Israeli propaganda on this page.[edit]

Stop declaring lies based on propaganda books about the city of Ashkelon. Whoever is responsible for this page should not allow people to write fake context under disguise of quoting serious books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Creativityisme (talkcontribs) 04:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Major POV Issues[edit]

This article has major POV issues, particularly in the Modern History section. If the information is verifiable, it needs to be worded much differently. I have not seen such a bad case of NPOV on Wikipedia in quite a while.

If only every Wikipedia article had "a bad case of NPOV"... ;-) -- ChrisO (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


We really need an audio file for the Hebrew pronunciation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.229.54.25 (talk) 06:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Persian period[edit]

The Persian period is missing, including the amazing dog cemetery that is the largest ancient burial place for dogs ever found. Someone please add! Zerotalk 11:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

List of rulers[edit]

From the lede: "In the course of its history, it has been ruled by the Canaanites, the Philistines, the Israelites, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Phoenicians, the Romans, the Persians, the Egyptians, the Muslims, the British and the Crusaders."

Which "Muslims" is this talking about? Given that all the rulers listed are nations/states/specific ethnic groups, shouldn't "Muslims" be replaced with whichever specific Muslim nation(s)/state(s)/people(s) were ruling it.

Also, what British rule is it talking about? I could see no other mention of the British in the article. Does it mean the early 20th century Palistinian Mandate (in which case why is it listed before the Crusaders), or something else? Wardog (talk) 11:10, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

That's a good point. "British" in this region is synonymous with the mandate, I moved it to last. As Saladin's rule is usually referred to as Egyptian, this leaves "Muslim" to be the Ottoman Empire. I corrected it as such. The lead still needs work, it is too cumbersome and repeats too much material from later in the page. I will correct it later today if someone doesn't beat me to it. --Muhandes (talk) 11:54, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Forgot something. Maybe the Mamluks should be mentioned. I'll look into it later today. --Muhandes (talk) 11:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Benjamin of Tudela, explain deletion[edit]

I deleted:

Around 1163 Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela visited Ashkelon and found about 200 rabbinate Jews living there.<ref>^ 'Early Travels in Palestine, comprising the narratives of Arculf, Willibald, Bernard, Saewulf, Sigurd, Benjamin of Tudela, Sir John Maundeville, De la Brocquiere, and Maundrell. Editor Dr. Thomas Wright. 1848. pub. Bohn, London. page 87. 'This city is very large and handsome'.</ref>

Reason: This is a mistake. What Benjamin wrote was "From there it is five parasangs to Palmid, which is Ashdod of the Philistines, now in ruins; no Jews dwell there. Thence it is two parasangs to Ashkelonah or New Askelon, which Ezra the priest built by the sea. It was originally called Bene Berak. The place is four parasangs distant from the ancient ruined city of Askelon. New Askelon is a large and fair place, and merchants come thither from all quarters, for it is situated on the frontier of Egypt. About 200 Rabbanite Jews dwell here, at their head being R. Zemach, R. Aaron, and R. Solomon; also about forty Karaites, and about 300 Cuthim." So Benjamin was describing a place quite some distance from Ashkelon. Four parasangs is about 22 km, greater than the distance from Ashkelon to Ashdod. Zerotalk 23:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

On the other hand it could be that Benjamin was mistaken when writing "The place is four parasangs distant from the ancient ruined city of Askelon." It would be original research to sort this out ourselves; I found a modern source which does interpret the place as Ashkelon. Zerotalk 00:33, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I think Benjamin of Tudela is mistaking the ruins of Mayunas Ashkelon, which is was a Byzantine town/port somewhat north of the ancient tell, with that of the original tell. Furthermore he talks about karaites being present in ( new Ashkelon ) which thus must be the ancient tell, if we deduct it from karaite sources in Ashkelon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.67.201.103 (talk) 13:14, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Materials[edit]

Relevant sources for this article:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynhockey (talkcontribs)

History: eras missing[edit]

Greetings,

The heading says "Roman" era, but what is mentioned is Persian, Greek, and Roman "eras".

Also, not much of the "Roman" or Byzantine eras is actually discussed.

Then, there's no mention of the first Islamic conquest in the 600s A.D.

76.17.118.157 (talk) 02:43, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Recent Discoveries[edit]

Perhaps the kind people of wikipedia could include information (under "Landmarks") about the recent discovery of a Roman Era Statue, a ruined bath house,and a ruined mosaics. This was after a storm hit Askelon's Beach around December 15 2010. I found it on The CNN website. Sorry, no link. Thanks NDGKH (talk) 00:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Benny Morris and the "State of Israel" section[edit]

A user at IP address 129.98.208.150 added, at the top of that section of the article, a comment saying:

(This narrative reflects the view of revisionist historian Benny Morris, and has not been verified as fact)

There is no way I will get involved with an Israel–Palestine argument, but since I removed the commentary from the article itself, I thought it fair to post the IP editor's complaint on the talk page. If anyone else sees the use of Morris as a problem, here's the place to discuss it. A. Parrot (talk) 23:31, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Honesty51 added "The following represents the opinion of historian Benny Morris", which is practically the same thing. Do you know a good way to tell the user that adding that commentary is not appropriate on Wikipedia? David1217 (talk) 22:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The Arab village of al-Majdal or al-Majdal Asqalan...[edit]

Is there a reliable source for the Arab village being called al-Majdal Asqalan? I don't think I've seen it called anything except al-Majdal. Of course many authors have noted the ancient name parenthetically after naming al-Majdal, but that doesn't count. Zerotalk 22:51, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm still unsatisfied by this being present without a source. Also, Al-Jura was much closer to the site of ancient Ascalon than al-Majdal was, it is almost missing from this article. Zerotalk 22:31, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Well,medieval Arabic usage might often have qualified al-Majdal with 'Ashqalān in order to discriminate it from Majdal Yābā.
  • The linked name is used in Ami Ayalon, Reading Palestine: Printing and Literacy, 1900-1948, University of Texas Press,p.53 cites letters appearing in the al-Hilal newspaper years for the interwar period from readers in Majdal-'Asqalan, and parentheses are not employed. In his bibliography p.188 he cited 'Abd al-Rahim Ahmad Husayn's Qinat madinah:al-madjdal wa'-asqalan,(Beirut 1987).
  • Moshe Sharon Corpus Inscriptionum Arabicarum Palaestinae(Addendum. Squeezes in the Max van Berchem Collection) ‎BRILL 2007 p.32 lists an inscription from 1375-6 C.E. that might derive from the mosque built in Majdal 'Asqalān (Majdal-'Asqalān in his index p.186 )around 1300CE.
  • In a memorial book for the town of Majdal 'Aqalan, a photo is glossed with the caption:'Majdal 'Asqalan: 17 martyrs of the 1936 revolt,' cited by Rochelle Davis, 'Mapping the Past, Re-creating the Homeland: Memories Village Places in pre-1948 Palestine,' in Ahmad H. Sa'di, Lila Abu-Lughod (eds.) Nakba: Palestine, 1948, and the Claims of Memory, Columbia University Press, pp.53-75, p.62.Nishidani (talk) 10:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Ok, that's enough evidence to justify inclusion of Majdal Asqalan. One reason I was skeptical (and remain puzzled) is that there was another village Al-Jura situated much closer to the ruins of ancient Ashkelon than al-Majdal was. Al-Jura was almost adjacent to the ruins, but al-Majdal was 4km from them. Moreover, al-Jura had been there a very long time (in 1596 census, etc). So why is al-Majdal rather than al-Jura written up as the modern successor of Asqalan? Maybe just because it was large and famous compared to al-Jura? Zerotalk 19:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Probably because Sayf ad-Din Salar al-Mansuri an-Nasiri built a notable mosque in Majdal, and not at Jura. Geographical orientation was diff'rent them days, a landscape was sacred or profane, and what was notable was determined by the monuments that marked the songlines. Or sumfen along them there lines, guv. Will keep pies eeled however to see if this can be finessed along the lines you suggest.Nishidani (talk) 19:39, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
A fine theory, except that the mosque of Ali's head was also much closer to al-Jura than to al-Majdal. I have another theory: the association is only because Israeli Ashkelon was originally seeded with the buildings of al-Majdal (though it has long since encompassed both locations). Zerotalk 20:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Hm. I dunno whether I feel more like Dolly Dyer or Frank Partridge in this exchange, Barry. My only problem is that Salar's mosque in Majdal-'Asqalan is dated ca. 1300, two centuries before records speak of al-Jura. You're probably right, but like 90% of the problems we encounter here, the solution lies in Arabic books, only 1% of whose historical details seeps into foreign languages, ahimé.Nishidani (talk) 22:15, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page[edit]

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mentioned in the Bible?[edit]

Zep 2:4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up

Should not this be noted? Yes, or no? Why, or why not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.47.87.16 (talk) 19:50, 17 July 2014 (UTC)