Talk:Athens, Ohio

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A short A. And it has more than 6100 full-time residents; it has that many "households," but households doesn't equate to "full-time" residents.

Untitled[edit]

Is the name of the town pronounced with a long a or a short a like the town in Greece?Edison 05:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

It's short A. I think all US Athens towns (there's something like 20, usually college towns) are pronounced the same. jaknouse 18:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Awesome Media People[edit]

I removed this section which was basically a plug for a local radio presenter.

Regards

Capitalistroadster 18:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Stable Hillsides[edit]

I removed this statement which is simply not true:

"Most hillsides, though, are solid sandstone and present very little slip potential."

jaknouse 18:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Human vs. Zombies[edit]

Actually, this IS a real event that has happened in 2006 and 2007 (and is over for the year as I write). If it happens again next year, I would feel justified listing it. jaknouse 19:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC) This event has continued to go on, and took place in 2008 and 2009, and there are plans to continue it this year (2010). You can find Humans vs. Zombies on facebook, and it has been reported on in The Athens News and the OU student paper, The Post. There is also a similar event in the spring called "Zombpocalypse." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.74.22 (talk) 03:12, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Yep, definitely seen human/zombie battles in town... it's actually a significant piece of Athens culture. Check it out: http://hvzathens.com/ Guypersonson (talk) 00:49, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Citations[edit]

This article needs a lot of citations in pretty much every section, especially of oustanding claims are made. Please be sure to add a source and avoid using phrases like "most people say" or "some people think", etc. --JonRidinger (talk) 07:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Outline for general improvements[edit]

There are many areas for improvement, here is just an initial list.

  1. The intro summary is too brief and incomplete
  2. The section on trails might be better headed as "Recreation" and include a wider variety of recreation common to Athens
  3. The history seems lacking, and needs references (I know I have a history book on Athens, there are likely several).
  4. There are many examples on better city pages that could be adopted.
    1. Compare to Kent Ohio, use of historical and contemporary images
    2. Several sections in other small city pages could be considered
      1. For instance, the climate graph on the Kent page is helpful.
  5. References are sorely lacking
  6. What else?
  7. The festival section might be better in paragraph form rather than a list, and some selectivity and organization could be applied.

--Htw3 (talk) 14:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I casually watch this article and occasionally edit it, but am by no means a regular editor here. That said, most of what you said is correct. The best places to start are WP:USCITY, which is the general guideline for City articles. It is by no means an absolute necessity to follow this, but is helpful for the general organization of the article. This article suffers from, like you said, a lot of unverified, unreferenced claims, so adding reliable sources is a very pressing need but be careful of WP:FANCRUFT or excessive detail, even when reliable sources are available. Simply having a source does not mean something is notable or appropriate for a specific article. Another problem is what another editor calls "border creep". This is where editors start putting information that isn't directly relevant to a specific city, but it outside the city limits. Now some of this is appropriate for articles (like when something is associated with a specific city but isn't actually in that municipality), but many times it isn't. One example is listing the repeaters for WOUB-FM. Saying it has repeaters in the region is appropriate, but listing each one of them isn't relevant to Athens, Ohio. The same could be said for listing radio stations that can be heard in, but are not based in or licensed to Athens. There are a lot of unsourced WP:POV terms like "sports-crazed" for instance too that need to be addressed. The last problem I see is a large amount of external links, most of which are embedded in the article. Generally we want to avoid putting external links in the text and instead use inline citations if anything at all. See WP:EL. An example of excessive external links is the Festivals section.
Also, while I appreciate citing the Kent, Ohio article as a good example to use (it's one I've spent time working on and continue to work on), my caution there is that it isn't a featured article, so be careful using it as a model. A good smaller city featured article is Hillsboro, Oregon. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi jon-- thanks a bunch for the comments and advice. I will be sure to use and encourage the use of the Hillsboro article as an exemplar as well as refer to the general content and organization principles in WP:USCITY. I happen to live in Athens now, and other places I have lived (Kent, Ithaca, Seattle) have attracted much more effort towards improvement. I am also encouraging some other residents I know to contribute towards the improvements. --Htw3 (talk) 20:12, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
The key here is making sure those that help are familiar with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Too often people edit the articles of the towns they are from as residents rather than Wikipedia editors and that's where problems arise with questionable, inappropriate, and unsourced content. You have to think as an editor, not as a resident promoting the town. Most smaller towns and cities have just one or two editors who edit consistently. Even the Kent article is something I've done a lot of on my own mostly because there is very little interest. The benefit to you being in Athens is you likely have access to printed materials that aren't available online (like history sources) and you can add appropriate photos. I'm always here if needed for help. --JonRidinger (talk) 20:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Missing content[edit]

  • How about a section on local culture? would include more info on the farmers market, arts, community, cuisine?
  • The economy section is lacking on local businesses.
  • Recreation section needs discussions of hunting, mountainbiking, horseback riding, rock climbing / bouldering, birdwatching?,
  • could use many more images.

--Htw3 (talk) 15:34, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

As long as reliable sources can be found and there isn't too much detail, those additions would be great. Again, see WP:USCITY if you haven't already. It not only has organizational guidelines, but also suggestions for content scope. What we're going for is a thorough, but still somewhat general, article about the city, not a comprehensive guide to everything in Athens. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Also, if information is missing or unknown, simply leave it out of the article. Putting "??", inserting or leaving a blank section, or placing "discussion needed" isn't appropriate. The place to discuss content is here on the article talk page. Basically, don't add info to any article if you aren't sure AND you don't have reliable sources to verify the info. If a section needs improvements, there are several tags to draw attention to the problem, including sources, neutrality, cleanup, and many more. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

External links section[edit]

Generally, the only external links that should be in this section are things like the official city website and the Chamber of Commerce. Because the city of Athens appears to not have its own chamber of commerce, then the link for that is more appropriate at the Athens County, Ohio article. In other words, all external links need to have a direct connection to the subject of the article, which is the city of Athens. See also WP:EL and WP:USCITY#External links for more information. --JonRidinger (talk) 20:46, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Settled by Africans?[edit]

If this is true, it should definitely be expanded upon. I only did a little digging, but there is a historical marker in town that lists 1797 as when the first colonists from New England arrived in Athens County. That doesn't mean they founded the city, of course. The marker is listed here: http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=15545 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.82.4 (talk) 16:12, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

The "African" part was actually vandalism. It originally said "European". Unless there are some sources that state otherwise, I find it pretty hard to believe a group of Africans settled in southern Ohio in the late 1790s given the fact that southern Ohio was claimed by slave state Virginia. --JonRidinger (talk) 16:00, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

History[edit]

The expansion of the history section has been a welcome improvement. However, be careful that the section stays on topic. The topic is Athens, Ohio, so tons of details about the various groups who settled or may have been in the area aren't needed since all of them have Wikipedia articles of their own. Of course there is room to put each group in proper context, but details such as lifestyle, separate history, and even what they ate aren't appropriate for the history. Also, lots of details about "nearby" things aren't needed either. This article is about the city of Athens, not the Athens region or even Athens County. I removed what I felt were excess details that really didn't add to any understanding of the topic itself. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:20, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you raising the problem of over-expansion. I agree that the history section that has been recently added seems quite general to the Ohio Valley area and seems far too extensive for an article on Athens. I will try to see if the edits come from someone who is participating in the this talk page discussion or is otherwise socially involved in Wikipedia. It would be nice to gain some mutual understanding with whomever is spearheading those additions.--Htw3 (talk) 19:39, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I see that it is HistoryPerson99, whom you spoke to via user talk. However this edit identity seems to be a bit of a drive-by editor and my not be aware of talk pages of any sort. I will use the city template / example linked elsewhere on this page to start shifting the outline and content more towards standard pages.--Htw3 (talk) 19:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Notable people[edit]

I removed the entry for William James Hoge. Although, yes, there is a reliable source (though I'm not a big fan of a Who's Who book being the only RS) that indicates he's from Athens and was a noted Biblical scholar, that does not establish that he meets the threshold of notability, even for WP:LISTPEOPLE. The main exception for including a person in a notable people list who does not already have a Wikipedia article is that the "person is especially important in the list's group; for example, if the person is famous for a specific event..." In other words, there will be some kind of article linked that will mention that person. An example I encountered when doing the Kent, Ohio article was the name of Lucien B. Price. There is not a Wikipedia article about him, but several reliable sources indicate he is the listed inventor of (took the first patent in the US for) barbed wire (i.e. a single event) and thus he is mentioned on the barbed wire article. Potentially, an article could be written about him, but as of now it would be all of one line long since almost no information is available about him outside his status as the first patent holder of barbed wire and the fact he was living in Kent at the time of the patent. For Hoge, I haven't seen anything on the related articles that indicate any notability. While reliable sources are needed to establish notability, having them does not automatically mean someone is notable. They would need to be covered in several, wide-ranging sources. From a quick web search, very little comes up beyond the Hoge Family Papers from the Presbyterian Church USA (he was one of several in his family who were ministers) and some mentions on family history sites. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:02, 2 September 2011 (UTC)