Talk:Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

What about adults? ADHD is not exclusively a children's disorder!

This article carries a strong (and unfortunately common) systematic bias about this subject, namely that it wrongly presents ADHD as almost entirely a disorder of children. Sadly, with the exception of a couple of token sentences mentioning that "ADHD may persist into adulthood" and the (very last) section entitled "In adult" that links to Adult ADHD, this article goes beyond neglecting the topic and specifically restricts its coverage to children (take a look at the epidemiology section for example). While there is an Adult ADHD article, this article is that one's parent, and its myopic view of the ADHD population is doing the subject a tremendous disservice. – – ClockworkSoul 01:12, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

We should change the name to Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in children, that would allow people to see both sections when they search ADHD.Meatsgains (talk) 01:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

We have a page on Obesity and another page on Obesity in children. The main article is not called obesity in adults. The same situation applies here. We have a section on adult ADHD in this article. I oppose the suggested rename. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

By that rationale wouldn't it mean we should have an article on ADHD in general and one on children with ADHD? I had the same reaction to this article as Clockwork. The article definitely seems to be predominantly about ADHD in children and gives one the impression that it mainly occurs in children. Which only re-enforces the public misconception. And all the photos are of children. I suggest that the lead either be changed to make the fact that many adults have ADHD more prominant, or a hatnote be added that says something along the lines of "This article deals primarily with childhood ADHD. For ADHD in adults please see Adult attention-deficit disorder". -MsBatfish (talk) 06:04, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

HUH? First paragraph: It is a chronic disorder with 30 to 50 percent of those individuals diagnosed in childhood continuing to have symptoms into adulthood. Last paragraph: Researchers found that 60 percent of the children diagnosed with ADHD continue having symptoms well into adulthood.24.118.168.217 (talk) 17:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Quotation or not quotation?

I think we have to make up our mind. Is the list of diagnostic behaviours a quotation, or not? Many of the words are identical to the source, but some are not. Were there good reasons for changing them? If it's a quotation, then it needs to be presented as such, with quotation marks or other clear indication that it's a quotation, and the words need to all be identical to the source. If it's not a quotation, then to avoid copyright violation or plagiarism, perhaps it needs to be significantly different from the wording of the source, much more so than it now is; which can be done by shortening and summarizing, or combining information from multiple sources, (but has to be done in a way that doesn't change the facts unjustifiably). Or, it could be a combination of quotations and non-quotations, with quotation marks around the parts that are quoted word-for-word. Is the original material copyrighted? See WP:CV.

Also, we need to fix the grammar. If the list is introduced with "symptoms include:", then the first item can begin with "Being" or "Be[ing]", but not with "Be". The grammar is correct in the source.

I suggest giving just one of the behaviours, quoted word for word, as an example, and if the reader wants to read the rest they can follow the link to the source. I welcome comments from others as to how to handle this. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 21:56, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

The APA has written to Wikipedia expressing concerns that we are plagiarizing their mental illnesses. Thus we do need to paraphrase.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:31, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

ADD is not the same as ADHD

Please don´t write ADD when you mean ADHD. ADD is indeed a term which is not used in the current DSM-manuals, but the term is still used among people and refers to the type without the hyperactivity. I think it's very important to separate these two conditions, since it's not the same type of problem. I see many people on the net write that they have ADD, when they mean ADHD. Maybe we should use ADHD-PI or ADHD-I. But personally I think these terms will change quite soon, since the H stands for "Hyperactivity" and a person with ADD has no hyperactivity, so why use the H? It's just confusing and I both hope and think it will be changed in a near future.

Reference? --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:12, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

I remember reading this somewhere. I'll look into it if no one else does in the near future. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 13:52, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I've heard of people using this as a distinction, but have no source, doubt there is one other than the popular press, and I don't think it's even a good idea. ADHD is a "spectrum disorder", some are more hyperactive, some less. OR -- I know a lot of people with ADHD (and am one myself); some claim not to be hyperactive, and it's true they're not running about the room. Most of them do not sit still, however; they tap their fingers ... there's a long list of motions they do instead of being still. htom (talk) 15:39, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it was in DSM III. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:08, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think that this is simply confusion over the change in terminology between the DSM-III and DSM-IV. If I remember correctly, the DSM-III specified ADD with or without hyperactivity. The DSM-IV changed it to ADHD with three subtypes, inattentive, hyperactive/impulsive, and combined. That continued with the DSM-IV-TR and I believe ADHD with the three subtypes is also proposed as the terminology for the DSM-V. I think I understand the reasons for this terminology, but that's above my pay grade. I think it's simplest to stick with the currently accepted terminology, especially since this will avoid confusion if readers choose to explore the topic further by pursuing links to other sources such as NIMH or published literature, where ADHD and its subtypes are the preferred terminology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyperion35 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I was recently diagnosed by a prominent US psychiatrist of "ADD" (which was formally written on paper), so I assume the term is still used by people other than just the ignorant public. Personally I would find it harmful and misleading to describe myself (and others in this situation) as having "ADHD". I am very far from anything you could call hyperactive, which is one of the reasons it took me so long to get assessed, because I believed the myth that all people with ADHD are ""hyperactive". I also have many friends who have been diagnosed and show no signs of hyperactivity, including no signs of "motions they do instead of being still" as OtterSmith described. It is my understanding that it is actually very common particularly in adults with ADD/ADHD, that there is no hyperactivity involved. Perhaps it would be helpful to include something further explaining about the current terminology versus "older" terminology and/or less common terminology and/or terminology used in the public vernacular (and if it is mistakenly used, that's fine, we can state that). I will try to look for some sources when I have more time. Although it might be a difficult task to find sources that actually explain this. But even if there are, say, prominent medical sources that use the term "ADD", we could still state that. The only mention of ADD I could find in the article is "The previously used term ADD expired with the most recent revision of the DSM." Well, please don't shoot me for saying this, but the DSM is not the only reliable source that exists, and the article is about ADHD/ADD itself and not solely its entry in the DSM. The article currently makes it seem like ADD is just an old synonym for ADHD, when that is not the way it is commonly used outside the DSM. -MsBatfish (talk) 12:13, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Years ago I read an explanation along the lines you're discussing, MsBatfish, in a textbook, I think. From memory, the old ADD is now "ADHD without hyperactivity," but I'm not in the least surprised that practitioners are using ADD rather than that absurd designation. I guess we're waiting for one of us to find a concise description of the evolution of the terms and syndomes to base an explanation on. Someone's just deleted ADD and AD/HD from the lede, which I'm OK with, because I think equating ADHD with ADD is probably misleading. [1] --Anthonyhcole (talk) 08:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Lead image

Agree with Dbachmann [2]. The other image has good precedent, too. [3]. --JN466 15:56, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I might sit this one out. [4] --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:05, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I accepted the current arrangement as a compromise and still do.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:45, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Should other treatment areas be mentioned?

I was thinking Neurofeedback methods. Some methods have been proven effective (see the refs on the prev link). What do others think? (I am studying to be a neuroscientist, is this too specific a treatment for this page?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by AJake88 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Are there good review articles to back it up? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I think that Neurofeedback should be mentioned. One meta-analysis called Efficacy of Neurofeedback Treatment in ADHD: the Effects on Inattention, Impulsivity and Hyperactivity: a Meta-Analysis (from 2009 incl. 15 studies and 1194 people) draws the conclusion "Therefore, in line with the AAPB and ISNR guidelines for rating clinical efficacy, we conclude that neurofeedback treatment for ADHD can be considered “Efficacious and Specific” (Level 5) with a large ES for inattention and impulsivity and a medium ES for hyperactivity.". The full analysis is available here:PDF. I do not think that Neurofeedback is to specific for this article, because the German article mentions this method to control ADHD. Google for it an you will see that there are 3.260.000 results. I think, based on these informations it should be mentioned in this article as an alternative and/or complementary treatment to medication. Regards --Cyrus Grisham (talk) 19:51, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure have added.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Divorce Rates

The "divorce rate is higher" point is quickly getting debunked. Even the citation flat out comes to that conclusion: "Surprisingly, research has not consistently found that divorce rates differ between parents of children and adolescents with and without ADHD. Although several studies revealed a greater prevalence of divorce among families of children and adolescents with ADHD (Barkley, Fischer, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990; Brown & Pacini, 1989; Faraone, Biederman, Keenan, & Tsuang, 1991; Jensen et al., 1988), an equal number found no differences (Barkley et al. 1991; McGee, Williams, & Silva, 1984; Minde et al., 2003; Schachar & Wachsmuth, 1991). These conflicting findings likely occurred for two reasons: (1) all but two studies (Barkley et al. 1990, 1991) assessed parents of pre-adolescents and (2) all studies used a single assessment point. Investigations using longitudinal data sets with families of children across a wider age-range are needed to examine the probability of divorce over a greater passage of time. Furthermore, because young children are not the only ones negatively affected by divorce, but adolescents and young adults as well (Amato, 2000), studies are needed to compare the prevalence of divorce in families with or without ADHD youth of all ages." From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631569/?tool=pmcentrez (the study quoted in the first place) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pizzamancer (talk • contribs) 06:54, 19 December 2011 (UTC) Signed:Pizzamancer (talk) 12:18, 19 December 2011 (UTC) (I keep forgetting to do that)

Can you quote the text you're discussing from our article please Pizzamancer? I just did a quick page search for divorce and couldn't see anything. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 08:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 February 2012

The section "Comorbid disorders" begins: Inattention and "hyperactive" behavior are not the only problems in children with ADHD. ADHD exists alone in only about 1/3 of the children diagnosed with it. Such combinations can greatly complicate diagnosis and treatment. "Such combinations" is meaningless as no combination has been descibed, only the negative fact that the absence of some sort of combination is rare. The last sentence should be changed to The combination of ADHD with other conditions can greatly complicate diagnosis and treatment. 86.41.41.138 (talk) 11:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Done. [5] --Anthonyhcole (talk) 11:57, 14 February 2012 (UTC)