Talk:Auld Lang Syne

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Davide Riccio?????[edit]

An interesting but uncited edit is quoted in full below. There have been a string of edits of similar import put in lately - various editors have reverted them.

According to the Italian version of Wikipedia, the original music is from musician Davide Riccio (or Rizzio), a singer, player and composer from Piedmont (a northwestern region of Italy) who lived in the 16th century and was in the royal court of Savoia; in 1561 went to Scotland with a royal delegation and his brother Giuseppe and was hired as a court member of Queen Mary Stuart. The original tune then was not a "waltz," and its rhythm was 4/4.

This seems extremely unlikely - the only cite we have seen was to an Italian Newspaper, which is on the face of it certainly NOT a reliable source. Please note that Wikipedia is NOT incestuous, and that another article, even on another edition of Wiki is NOT a source. Surprising "new" facts do sometimes come up - but Wikipedia is not the place for them to make their first appearance. This ought to be common sense. Incidentally ALS has never been in 3/4 time, just hum it and count the beats for heaven's sake. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 03:43, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

There are many books, scores, manuscripts where is written that Rizzio is composer of Valzer delle candele.--Vito.Vita (talk) 10:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
As far as can be determined, the fact is that apart from a single Italian newspaper article this is totally false. This is an encyclopedia, and "facts" do need proper documentation. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Valzer delle candele[edit]

Hello, it is not true that my update is silly season" practical joke. My updated is with source, not only the Italian newspaper (as you wrote). http://www.marisalivet.com/blog---the-soap-bubbles-vendor/lets-sing-a-carol-along is not a newpaper. In any case, there is written in many books and scores that Davide Rizzio is composer of "Valzer delle candele": for example in Piemonte magico e misterioso by Renzo Rossotti (edited by Newton Compton, Rome). Here http://robertobrumat.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/italiano-il-valzer-delle-candele/ you can read all history about Davide Rizzio. If you do not know a thing, this doesn't mean that it is false.--Vito.Vita (talk) 12:26, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but it just ain't so. Auld Lang Syne is not a "waltz" anyway, so either Valzer delle candele is misnamed (a waltz in 4/4 time?) or it is not the same melody as Auld Lang Syne". Published scores often misattribute music and do not constitute "reliable sources" in themselves - nor does a personal or commercial website or blog. -Soundofmusicals (talk) 13:05, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
I have spent a few happy hours surfing the web for Valzer delle candele (in plain English "the candle waltz"), including listening to several Italian people singing it. It certainly has pretty much the same melody line as Auld Lang Syne, but it DOES feel more like a slow waltz than the fairly brisk march of the original. Whether this is more because it is simply a slower version, or because the time signature HAS actually has been changed I am not, to be honest, enough of a musician to pick with any certainty. More to the point, for every place where it is stated that Davide Rizzio wrote the original melody, there are nine or ten places where that melody is very simply described as "Traditional Scots", or, "based on a song by Robert Burns", or words to that effect. Where Davide Rizzio IS mentioned the wording seems suspiciously similar, as if they are all copying each other. There are in fact other Scottish strathspeys (what we call a dance tune to that particular rhythm) that are very similar to the "Auld Lang Syne" - among them the tune to "Comin' through the rye". A clincher, while the Rizzio bit DID get into the Italian version of the article, it got edited out again (and NOT by me). I'd like to know - when exactly did "The candle waltz" become popular? That is, which Italian singer actually introduced it, rather than covering it? It seems surprising that if "The Candle Waltz" is an Italian folk song that has been around for a while that we haven't mentioned the fact in this article before.
Having said all this we probably need a mention of Valzer delle candele being an Italian version of "Auld Lang Syne", (with very different words set to a much slower version of the melody) and even (perhaps) that some (Italian) people attribute the melody to Rizzio. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:05, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

File:John Masey Wright - John Rogers - Robert Burns - Auld Lang Syne.jpg to appear as POTD[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:John Masey Wright - John Rogers - Robert Burns - Auld Lang Syne.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on December 31, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-12-31. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:13, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Picture of the day
Auld Lang Syne

A mid-19th century illustration for "Auld Lang Syne", a Scots poem written by Robert Burns in 1788 and set to a traditional melody. It is traditionally used in the English-speaking world to bid farewell to the old year at the stroke of midnight on New Year's Eve; this has led to the song being used to close other activities as well.

Engraving: John Masey Wright (artist) and John Rogers (engraver); restoration: Adam Cuerden
ArchiveMore featured pictures...


Translation of "auld lang syne"[edit]

The reason I changed the minimalist translation from "auld lang syne" to "long, long ago" was just that I felt that those three words are the part of the poem which standard English speakers have most difficulty with. I am just as happy for it to be "days of long ago" as I am for it to be "long, long ago" since either of these puts over the idiomatic meaning and they both scan. I just felt that leaving the "auld lang syne" phrase in the translation was defeating the basic purpose of the translation. -- Derek Ross | Talk 05:19, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

No worries. What seems to happen is that there is a certain type of person who you can tell them all day what "auld lang syne" means and they will ask you (either right away or after five minutes) YES, but what does it MEAN? Whether they have been brainwashed into thinking the phrase is incomprehensible, so that understanding it is actually in some way reprehensible, or they just don't believe it when you explain I have no idea. The point I made in my edit summary is that if we do add something idiomatic it has to make sense (just not idiomatic otherwise) in each line. "Long long ago" doesn't actually make sense in several of the places "auld lang syne" is used in the original Scots, whereas "days of long ago" does (more or less anyway, I think). Either totally wrecks the good old ballad rhyme scheme (ABCB).
We actually visited this idea before, as you can probably remember, and thought that since "auld lang syne" is not actually directly translatable into standard English, we'd be better off leaving it in Scots, and explaining the range of possible standard English equivalents appropriate in different contexts somewhere else. Hence calling this translation "minimalist". --Soundofmusicals (talk) 07:30, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Scots a "dialect" or a "language"?[edit]

Whether one considers Scots to be a dialect of "Common British" or a language in its own right rather distantly related to that degenerate Sassenach version (what's it called?) depends very largely on one's (legitimate) POV - perhaps it is best in an article like this to remain as neutral as possible, and not to plump too definitely for one or the other? (this is related to the minor edit I have just made in the lead. -Soundofmusicals (talk) 21:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)