Talk:Australia

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Misleading[edit]

I have 2 points: 1. Why the word 'Europeans' is used constantly to describe English occupation and settlement of Australia? If there were some other Europeans migrating to Australia - didn't they follow the English rule anyway? Is the proportion of other Europeans compared to the English - very small? The use of the word 'Europeans' in this article is similar to saying 'during WWII China was occupied by the Asians' (to avoid saying they were Japanese). Very misleading and untrue. 2. Health issue: is there a universal dental coverage in Australia? I don't think so. Are there emergency queues with waiting time over 8 hours? Yes. So how can Australia claim having one of the best health systems? The reality sounds more like a developing or 3rd world country. Please update accordingly. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.134.4.61 (talk) 13:59, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Point 1. At the time of colonisation, and for a long time afterwards (for some, even now), the British saw themselves as anything but European. Europe was a place full of foreigners. The colonisers certainly weren't European in the language of the time.
Point 2 would need some proper comparison. Perhaps it exists. Have you checked the sources? HiLo48 (talk) 22:18, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
British not English, to be picky to the IP. I'm unaware of any statistics regarding demographic distributions in the early period, but our First Fleet article says there were African, American (presumably white), and French prisoners on board. As for health systems, the IP doesn't sound like they've seen a lot of third world health systems, although I suppose it's a fair point that those with no access to healthcare don't have to wait in queues. CMD (talk) 22:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't know too much about point two, but as for point one, they came predominantly from the British Isles. In one sense it is correct to say British, as Ireland was a part of the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland after 1800 (but not before 1788 or after the early 20th century). Today, however, Ireland is not part of Britain, however (and huge numbers came from Ireland - you'd be hard pressed to find a white Australian without Irish ancestry unless their forebears were post-federation immigrants) so British Isles would be the most accurate way to say it. This is somewhat awkward though so I guess they've gone for European. 'English' is inaccurate as England hasn't been a country for 400 years. In 1788 the nation that claimed the Eastern part of Australia was the Kingdom of Great Britiain which is made up of the former countries of England, Scotland and Wales. It later absorbed Ireland and became Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.--Saruman-the-white (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I can recall when I was young seeing a stamped label under some bentwood chairs my grandmother had. It said "'Made by non-European labour'". That did not mean Asian, or Africa, or anything like that. It meant they were made by good British folk, not those evil continentals. I think the answer to this problem is that we should be describing it as "British" settlement. Despite the complexities of what comprises Britain, it's far more accurate than "European". HiLo48 (talk) 01:13, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
I think you are wrong about that. Non-European on Australian furniture meant it was made by white Australians, and not other races (particularly Chinese). I've no evidence to back that up, although I heard if from a relative who is a furniture restorer.--Dmol (talk) 01:49, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
You could be right. HiLo48 (talk) 01:52, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Don't forget the German settlement in Australia beginning from 1838, which was particularly important in the early history of South Australia and the establishment of the wine industry in the Barossa Valley. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 03:01, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Australian flags[edit]

There's an ongoing issue with Australian flags from articles to which they are relevant. I've started a discussion regarding this at Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board. --AussieLegend () 12:26, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

2014 HDI[edit]

The 2014 HDI is now out. Could someone edit it? The new number is 0.933, and it is still very highly developed and in 2nd place. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheBoulderite (talkcontribs) 16:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Languages contradiction[edit]

The article says "Between 250 and 300 Indigenous Australian languages are thought to have existed at the time of first European contact, of which only around 20 are in use today.[270] Many of these are exclusively spoken by older people; only 18 Indigenous languages are still spoken by all age groups." Except around 20 - 18 = 2, so using those numbers would lead one to conclude that few of those are exclusively spoken by older people. Since general patterns of language lead me to accept that many are only spoken by older people, the number in use and the number in use by all age groups should probably come from the same source.--Prosfilaes (talk) 13:52, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Two population questions[edit]

First, is it really true that Australia's population has increased from 21.5 million in 2011 to 23.5 million in 2014? That would be a 10% increase in three years.

Second, this line from the article has me scratching my head a bit:

Because Australia's census doesn't ask for racial background, it is unclear how many Australians are descendants of Europeans. Estimates vary from 85% - 92%. Asian Australians make up 12% of the population.

If the racial background isn't asked, how can the 12% figure for Asian Australians be known? Funnyhat (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Just as a guess, those numbers came from immigration rather than census data. Before the 1970s, Australians of Asian descent comprised a tiny percentage of the population. If we know the origin of immigrants, then it wouldn't be too difficult to count up everyone arriving of Asian background and make a percentage of that number against the census total. Bit of assumption there; not everybody immigrating from (say) Singapore or India is going to be of purely Asian background. --Pete (talk) 22:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
More importantly, large numbers of immigrants from our biggest immigration sources, New Zealand and England, are going to be of Asian background. Additionally, any children of that 12% are, by definition, going to be of Asian background. This is why we see figures like 20% of the population having at least one Asian parent. The number of "Asian Australians" depends entirely on how you define "Asian Australian". I've seen reliable figures that >30% of Australians are Asian, which is not surprising if 20% of the population have 50% Asian ancestry. By the time you factor in the likes of Bob Katter, who has one Asian grandparent, 30% Asian Australians would seem like a minimum if Asian Australian is anyone with any Asian ancestry. Of course if Asian Australian is defined by >50% Asian ancestry, or by self-identification or by some other criterion you get a completely different figure. The SMH article never defines "Asian Australian" or notes specifically where it got its figure from aside from somewhere in the 2011 Census. It seems to be referring strictly to immigrants from Asian nations, not to people of Asian race (whatever that means) living in Australia. As such it's misleading to tack this onto a section talking about people of European background, as though this is the equivalent figure for people of Asian ancestry. We need to either find the census figure it refers to and word this articel in the same manner as the census, or make it clear that the term "Asian Australians" was being used in an unclear manner in the source.Mark Marathon (talk) 01:45, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia as an encyclopaedia cites sources for its entries. The debate on calculation should be elsewhere. Alan Davidson (talk) 05:25, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, no. Editors also have a duty to make the articles aren't incomprehensible and self-contradictory. Verifiability is one very small part of what "Wikipedia as an encyclopaedia" does.Mark Marathon (talk) 05:52, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

The relevant RS on population size and growth is the ABS time series Australian Demographic Statistics. The estimated resident population increased from 22.5 million in 2011 to 23.3 million in December 2013. Migration accounted for the majority of the population growth over this period. Regarding the figures on ancestry, the Census data is pretty hard to interpret: people can nominate whatever two ancestries they want, and it's totally subjective: [1] (eg, the 35% of people who claim 'Australian' ancestry would include Indigenous Australians, people from long-established settler backgrounds and recent migrants who identify as 'Australian'). Figures for the countries people were born or where their parents were born can be more useful if you want to get a picture of Australia's ethnic diversity, but are obviously limited in other ways. This ABS article on the various Census figures looks pretty good as a primer on Australia's ethnic population make up. Nick-D (talk) 11:32, 15 August 2014 (UTC)