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2014 HDI[edit]

The 2014 HDI is now out. Could someone edit it? The new number is 0.933, and it is still very highly developed and in 2nd place. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheBoulderite (talkcontribs) 16:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Languages contradiction[edit]

The article says "Between 250 and 300 Indigenous Australian languages are thought to have existed at the time of first European contact, of which only around 20 are in use today.[270] Many of these are exclusively spoken by older people; only 18 Indigenous languages are still spoken by all age groups." Except around 20 - 18 = 2, so using those numbers would lead one to conclude that few of those are exclusively spoken by older people. Since general patterns of language lead me to accept that many are only spoken by older people, the number in use and the number in use by all age groups should probably come from the same source.--Prosfilaes (talk) 13:52, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Two population questions[edit]

First, is it really true that Australia's population has increased from 21.5 million in 2011 to 23.5 million in 2014? That would be a 10% increase in three years.

Second, this line from the article has me scratching my head a bit:

Because Australia's census doesn't ask for racial background, it is unclear how many Australians are descendants of Europeans. Estimates vary from 85% - 92%. Asian Australians make up 12% of the population.

If the racial background isn't asked, how can the 12% figure for Asian Australians be known? Funnyhat (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Just as a guess, those numbers came from immigration rather than census data. Before the 1970s, Australians of Asian descent comprised a tiny percentage of the population. If we know the origin of immigrants, then it wouldn't be too difficult to count up everyone arriving of Asian background and make a percentage of that number against the census total. Bit of assumption there; not everybody immigrating from (say) Singapore or India is going to be of purely Asian background. --Pete (talk) 22:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
More importantly, large numbers of immigrants from our biggest immigration sources, New Zealand and England, are going to be of Asian background. Additionally, any children of that 12% are, by definition, going to be of Asian background. This is why we see figures like 20% of the population having at least one Asian parent. The number of "Asian Australians" depends entirely on how you define "Asian Australian". I've seen reliable figures that >30% of Australians are Asian, which is not surprising if 20% of the population have 50% Asian ancestry. By the time you factor in the likes of Bob Katter, who has one Asian grandparent, 30% Asian Australians would seem like a minimum if Asian Australian is anyone with any Asian ancestry. Of course if Asian Australian is defined by >50% Asian ancestry, or by self-identification or by some other criterion you get a completely different figure. The SMH article never defines "Asian Australian" or notes specifically where it got its figure from aside from somewhere in the 2011 Census. It seems to be referring strictly to immigrants from Asian nations, not to people of Asian race (whatever that means) living in Australia. As such it's misleading to tack this onto a section talking about people of European background, as though this is the equivalent figure for people of Asian ancestry. We need to either find the census figure it refers to and word this articel in the same manner as the census, or make it clear that the term "Asian Australians" was being used in an unclear manner in the source.Mark Marathon (talk) 01:45, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia as an encyclopaedia cites sources for its entries. The debate on calculation should be elsewhere. Alan Davidson (talk) 05:25, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, no. Editors also have a duty to make the articles aren't incomprehensible and self-contradictory. Verifiability is one very small part of what "Wikipedia as an encyclopaedia" does.Mark Marathon (talk) 05:52, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

The relevant RS on population size and growth is the ABS time series Australian Demographic Statistics. The estimated resident population increased from 22.5 million in 2011 to 23.3 million in December 2013. Migration accounted for the majority of the population growth over this period. Regarding the figures on ancestry, the Census data is pretty hard to interpret: people can nominate whatever two ancestries they want, and it's totally subjective: [1] (eg, the 35% of people who claim 'Australian' ancestry would include Indigenous Australians, people from long-established settler backgrounds and recent migrants who identify as 'Australian'). Figures for the countries people were born or where their parents were born can be more useful if you want to get a picture of Australia's ethnic diversity, but are obviously limited in other ways. This ABS article on the various Census figures looks pretty good as a primer on Australia's ethnic population make up. Nick-D (talk) 11:32, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Why the artificial section division[edit]

between "Demographics" and "Culture"? Some sub-sections such as language and religion could be in either place. I propose merging them to one section "Demographics and culture". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:31, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I see no problem. Demographics and culture are two quite different concepts. Demographics is the consideration of the population through numeric make-up. "Broken down by age and sex", as they say. So we see the percentages of Australians of such and such a religious persuasion, ethnic group, location and so on.
Culture is something we discuss in more absolute terms. We don't talk about the numbers so much as the subject itself. To put it another way, we could talk about sports, listing the percentages of league followers, football fans, rules fanatics and so on. But that doesn't describe the games, the events, the atmosphere, the traditions. One is numbers, the other is what people feel or do.
The two things belong in two sections, and they are described appropriately in each. I see no need to merge them. --Pete (talk) 20:37, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
The split between "Arts" and "Media" ia really confusing. So film, television and music aren't forms of art? If the entire history of Australia can be condensed into one section then so can the arts. Merging these two subsections will require the removal of some content, leaving only the most notable. I don't see Alvin Purple surviving. - HappyWaldo (talk) 01:17, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Sports image[edit]

An Aboriginal cricket team with their coach and captain Tom Wills, Melbourne Cricket Ground, 1866. Cricket has been popular in Australia since colonial times.

I added this image (right) to the sports section but it was reverted by user Mark Marathon because "an image of people actually playing sport is more appropriate". Maybe in some cases, but there are many images of people not actively playing sport that still manage to sum up a nation's sporting culture, which is what the Australian sports section needs. With this in mind, I think this image is superior to the current one for the following reasons:

  • The image shows a group of Indigenous Australians. Nowhere else in the article is there an image of Indigenous Australians. The only image that is even remotely related to Indigenous Australia is an artwork I added by white artist Sidney Nolan, as it represents a synthesis of Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australian culture. The current sports image shows what looks like a nondescript cricket match. Nothing about it is uniquely Australian, the match could be taking place almost anywhere in the world.
While an image of indigenous Australians is certainly appropriate, the fact that this image is a twofer doesn't have any relevance to its effectiveness as an illustration of Australian sports. The image shows a nondescript image of some men wearing wasitcoats posing for a portrait. Without reading the description there is nothing to even link the image to sport. Therefore it isn't illustrative of sport in Australia. The whole point of an image is to illustrate the subject. People posing for a portrait is a good illustration for portrait. It's of limited value as an illustration of sports.
Nothing about the photo is any more uniquely Australian than the current image. Unless you are arguing that Australoids are uniquely Australian while Caucasians are not. Both are images of Australian people, thus either both are uniquely Australian, or neither.
So the image fails on two grounds.It's not uniquely Australian and it's not illustrative of sport. It may be related to sport, but a portrait doesn't illustrate sport.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Most of the cricketers in the current image are English. It is basically an image of the English cricket team inflicting Bodyline on one Australian. I concede that the proposed image alone doesn't illustrate sport. Most images need some kind of explanation, including the current one. That is why captions exist. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
1932–33 Ashes: Bill Woodfull evades a bodyline ball at the Gabba
It certainly is not an image of contemporary Australian sports. No other article on a nation goes back eighty years to find an image to illustrate the "Sports" section. France has an image of the 2005 Tour de France. The UK has a 2010 image of a football stadium. The USA shows a swimmer from 2008. New Zealand has a 2008 image of an England Test. Germany has an image of the 2014 World Cup-winning football team. Spain has a 2008 tennis player. Norway has a 2009 photo of a skier. South Africa shows the 2007 rugger team. Canadia in their "Culture" section, revealingly has an image of their 2010 ice hockey team. The image of the Russian ream dates from 2011. All of them contemporary. So why, precisely, should Australia be the exception? --Pete (talk) 15:39, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
I was rightly called out for WP:OSE. It applies here too. - HappyWaldo (talk) 16:21, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Of course. Nevertheless, you want this article to go against what seems to be a Wikipedia-wide norm. But why, precisely, should Australia be the exception? --Pete (talk) 16:25, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Again, why does sport, out of all cultural activities, have to be illustrated with an up-to-date image? The other nation articles are jumping on the latest bandwagon. Past athletes and events are just as worthy. - HappyWaldo (talk) 16:51, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
If you can't answer the question, that's fine. You have a gut feeling, perhaps. To answer your question, sports doesn't have to be illustrated with a current image. It seems to be the universal case that it is, so there may have been some policy discussion on this. Cultural sections likewise seem to contain contemporary images. The exceptions are sub-sections such as Music and Literature, where we see portraits of great artists or writers. Mozart, Shakespeare, Picasso - individuals with global reputations. Iconic individuals indelibly linked with the national spirit to the extent that they have their own museums and galleries. Their houses are preserved as national treasures, places for pilgrimage. I've visited Hannibal, Missouri to see the childhood home of Mark Twain, for example. Nothing similar seems to apply to your team. They are barely notable. --Pete (talk) 17:26, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
The first Australian cricket team to tour overseas is barely notable? Indigenous Australian participation in sport is barely notable? The MCG is barely notable? Tom Wills is barely notable? The portrait might be the most notable image in Australian sport, despite being less recognisable than, say, Bradman, Australian cricket's Shakespeare. Interestingly enough the Bradman Museum has an exhibit dedicated to the Aboriginal team. I seriously doubt there is a policy against using historic images in sports sections. Sticking with Europe, Greece and Hungary have historic sports images, so the need for complete newness isn't universal, OSE aside. Ice hockey nations might as well use the same template image of a team celebrating, just colour in the uniforms and add the date of their latest victory against [insert main rival]. It's chest beating jingoism. - HappyWaldo (talk) 01:09, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't want to offend you, but I think you're reaching a little. Greece has an image of the first modern Olympics. Huge sporting glory right there. Global significance extending to the present day. Your image isn't quite in the same league. Of course, you have your own opinion, and that's fine. --Pete (talk) 04:57, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
And, speaking of being offensive, I asked you a question, which you declined to answer. You then asked me a similar question, which I answered, and you then attempted to disparage my opinion. I haven't changed it, so please don't continue in this vein. Thank you.
Opinions are one thing, but we don't write an encyclopaedia on opinions. We need sources. I don't see your team get much of a mention in any polls: [2], [3], [4] etc. etc. --Pete (talk) 05:15, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, the Aboriginal team isn't nearly as significant globally as the first modern Olympics. But this is a section on Australian sports/culture, not global sports/culture. Australian rules football, the Heidelberg School, Paul Kelly—all cultural icons worthy of coverage on this page, but not very notable on a global scale. Your question was why should Australia be the exception to the norm. Because I think an image of the Aboriginal team encapsulates Australian sport to a greater degree than any "up-to-date", free image. If you think a different image, modern or historical, does a better job, then would love to see it. I could be persuaded. I already posted the NMA's "100 defining moments" list in which the Aboriginal team ranks beside the Melbourne Cup and the 1956 Olympics. Pre-Test cricketers have no chance of entering SPHoF. - HappyWaldo (talk) 07:02, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
You didn't answer my question. Why should Australia go against the norm for Wikipedia? You offered your opinion for this article only. But, without exceptional circumstances, sports sections in national articles don't use images more than a few years old, and never as the only image in that section. They all show a current image. There's few external sources that support your view, and - if we were to go the historical route, a long list of far more well supported possibilities. Don Bradman, for example.. --Pete (talk) 07:31, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, this is a discussion pertaining to the Australia article. You said yourself the sports image doesn't have to be up-to-date. There isn't a guideline against historical images in sports sections. You are recycling WP:OSE arguments. Again, post an image that does a better job at encapsulating Australian sport. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:05, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
  • The group in question is the first Aboriginal cricket team - the first in a long line of successful Indigenous athletes. In 1868 they became the first Australian sports team to travel to England, ten years before the first white Australian Test cricket team went overseas. The current image shows Australia playing England, but again this is not obvious from the image alone.
The proposed image shows a group of men posing for a portrait. It is not obvious from the image alone that the men have have any connection whatsoever to sport, much less that they are the first of a long line or any of the other points that make them important. I agree entirely that what is obvious from the image alone is of paramount importance in deciding whether it is illustrative. That makes the decision to exclude this image obvious.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
  • The image was taken in 1866. This demonstrates the prominent role cricket has played in Australian history. The current image was taken in 1933, even though the caption is about Australian cricket's popularity going back to the 19th century.
This seems like a non sequitur. Why does the fact that one photo is 30 years older make it more illustrative of the role cricket has played in history? I could perhaps understand this if one were taken in 1790 and one in 1990. But 30 years is less than a generation. And even if we were to accept that age is important, we have an image of an image of an 1858 intercolonial match that should be used and an image of The Victorian XI, 1859 that could be used.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
The current caption reads: "Cricket has been an important part of Australia's sporting culture since the 19th century." I think this fact would be better illustrated by a 19th century image than a 20th century one. There's a 67 year gap between the Aboriginal tour and Bodyline, not 30. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
  • The image was taken at the Melbourne Cricket Ground, the most iconic sports stadium in Australia, serving as the "spiritual home" of Australia's one unique sport - Australian rules football. The current image was taken at The Gabba, Brisbane, not nearly as significant as the MCG.
Firstly, this is at odds with the repeated claims made above that it is important that the significance of the image be obvious from the image alone. Nothing in the image would allow anyone but an ardent historian to link it to the MCG. Secondly, claiming that the Gabba is less significant than the MCG to cricket is contentious at best. Significance is such a subjective term that it would be impossible to reach such a conclusion.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Is it subjective to say that the MCG hosted Australia's (and the Southern Hemisphere's) first Olympics? Or that the first Test match was played there in 1877? "Significance" is subjective, but then so is culture. Whatever a particular culture holds to be significant, is significant within that culture. The MCG is Australia's most significant stadium. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
  • The white man in the image is Tom Wills, "Australia's first cricketer of significance and pioneer of the sport of Australian rules football".
This once again seems at odds with the repeated claims made above that it is important that the significance of the image be obvious from the image alone. Secondly, to suggest that Tom Wilis is more significant to the history Australian cricket than Harold Larwood or the Bodyline tour is contentious at best. But even if we do accept all this, we have images of an 1858 match showing a cricket match and an 1859 image of The Victorian XI that could be used that both feature Wills.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
While Bodyline cannot be overrated, I think an image of the Aboriginal team with Tom Wills speaks more broadly to Australian sport/culture than Larwood avoiding Bodyline. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
  • The image is higher res than the current, and the persons are actually identifiable. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:19, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
The resolution of an image isn't all that important. As for whether people are identifiable, I would lay money that far more people would recognise Larwwood in the current image than would recognise any of the people in the alternative image. None of which has any real bearing on this discussionMark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
I meant the Aboriginal team is identifiable due to higher res. Bodyline is probably more recognisable, yes. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Support including the image, per above rationale. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:04, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose using images of dead people to illustrate a live topic. Sports in Australia is what people can watch in real time. On television, at sporting grounds. And then read the results in the paper. I would be happier with using an image of the Fitzroy team to illustrate Australian Rules than using this antediluvian image to represent modern sports. --Pete (talk) 19:20, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
Australian sport is more than just real-time actions and newspaper results. It's a window into who we are as a people. Re image, I don't think there's a modern equivalent that can reveal so much about our society and culture. It's cricket (doesn't have a Barassi Line), it's Indigenous (needed due to aforementioned under-representation), and it's the MCG. It's practically Australia defined. - HappyWaldo (talk) 00:23, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
It doesn't say much about Australian sports today. In the History of Cricket in Australia article, sure, but I think our readers are looking about information on today's Australia. An American schoolchild searching for material for a report, for example. It's a great historical image, for sure, but this article doesn't dwell much on history. This isn't to say we can't find a better image to represent sports in Australia, of course. --Pete (talk) 23:51, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
I think the image is a very pertinent symbol of reconciliation in Australian sport, which of course continues to this day. It's historical but for all times. This list was released only yesterday I believe. The aboriginal cricket team is one of five sports "moments". Another moment is the first recorded Australian rules football match, which Tom Wills umpired. - HappyWaldo (talk) 06:34, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Reconciliation? In 1866? --Pete (talk) 22:45, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
A symbol of reconciliation, or a step towards reconciliation. Victorians embraced the team as their own. Some players like Mullagh were invited to join the elite MCC. For the first time, Aborigines were widely seen as equal to Europeans. - HappyWaldo (talk) 03:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
In 1866. Yeah, right. I think you're constructing a fantasy here, and I'm wondering why. --Pete (talk) 06:58, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
I suggest you read about the 66-67 tour and the public's response. Can you imagine a crowd of 10,000 white colonists supporting the Aboriginal team against the Melbourne Cricket Club? It happened. HappyWaldo (talk) 08:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
If you could show me where the word "reconciliation" was used in contemporary reporting, I'd feel more comfortable that you were presenting some accurate and truthful view of history. As it is, I'm smelling editorialising and synthesis. I'll also question your "Aborigines were widely seen as equal to Europeans" claim. In some limited arena, perhaps, but not in the wider view you are implying. This article on Australia is aimed at presenting a view of modern Australia, apart from the "History" section. We don't use an image of Gallipoli to illustrate the "Foreign relations and military" section, nor an 1860s gold mine to illustrate "Economy". Other articles on nations all seem to follow the same pattern, with few opting to adorn (say) the "Transport" section with a picture of a horse and buggy. I think we need a good reason to kick against what is a clear pattern. --15:21, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
I never claimed that the word "reconciliation" was used contemporaneously, only that the tour is now seen as one of Australia's first steps towards reconciliation. For example: "The efforts of leading cricketer Tom Wills to involve Aboriginal players with the game in 1866 was in itself an important early gesture of reconciliation..." Cricket Australia Chief Executive James Sutherland. There is another clear pattern in culture sections: portraits of long-dead authors, artists and composers. Sport is part of culture, and athletes and events from past periods are frequently named. Why does sport, out of all cultural activities, have to be illustrated with an up-to-date image? - HappyWaldo (talk) 16:13, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
You said, "I suggest you read about the 66-67 tour". I was following your suggestion. Now you want to talk about modern views. Fine. Sports seems to be illustrated with modern images in every article about a modern nation I've checked. Why should Australia be different? --Pete (talk) 16:19, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Reconciliation is a word that is too easily used and often thrown about these days. It wasn't used until the 1980s or 90s and when it was first used it confused a lot of people. The efforts of Tom Wills were not early gestures of reconciliation, they were simply the norm for the day. --AussieLegend () 16:20, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, read about the tour. You will find in contemporary reports similar sentiments to those expressed around modern reconciliation, and a desire to mend the past. That is all. I think we have gone way off course here. - HappyWaldo (talk) 16:51, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. The image of the Indigenous team is an important one in both Australian sports and cultural history. They were also the first non-English cricket team to travel abroad (all previous overseas tours having all been made by English teams - to the United States, Canada and Australia), so the Indigenous team is also historically notable on an international scale in cricket history as well. Figaro (talk) 06:54, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Because both images are relevant, I have returned the image of the historical Indigenous team to the page, while also keeping the image of the cricket game in progress. Hopefully this should resolve any issues with regard to the two images. Figaro (talk) 08:10, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Restoration isn't appropriate. The image was added to the article, its addition was reverted and a discussion was started per WP:BRD. While disputed content is under discussion, the status quo reigns per WP:STATUSQUO. Articles are not supposed to be image farms and most sections in the article have a single image. We really don't need two for sport, especially when they are of the same sport. If we were to have a second image, it should be of another sport that is significant in Australia. Of course, if that were to happen we'd have another argument. --AussieLegend () 08:52, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Ok. Figaro (talk) 10:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose The image is a portrait of men wearing waistcoats. While the men are unarguably of great importance to the history of Australian sport, the image doesn't illustrate Australian sport. Illustrative utility is really the only thing we should be considering for the inclusion of images. Without reading the caption, there is no way for anybody looking at the image to even know that it even relates to sport. As such it clearly fails as an illustration. If we think the men in the photo are worthy of inclusion in the sports section of this article, we should write about them or link to them. If we want older images of sport, we have an image an image of an 1858 intercolonial match that should be used. Nothing in Wikipedia policy suggests that its a good idea to use non-illustrative images just because the image has links to important events or figures. This is akin to using an image of the factory that built Bradman's bat on the grounds that it has links to an important sporting event, despite not being in any way illustrative of it.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Sports image 2[edit]

An Aboriginal cricket team plays on the Melbourne Cricket Ground, 1866. Cricket has been popular in Australia since colonial times.

A happy compromise? - HappyWaldo (talk) 03:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps so. Two points however about the content of the images - (1) I wonder if this engraving is in fact depicting the match played at MCG in late Dec 1866 and may have been published in early 1867. (2) The group photo which includes Tom Wills does NOT depict the team which toured England in 1868. Half the people shown in the photo did not go to England. I think it should more properly be known as the 1866-67 team during a tour of Eastern Australia.RossRSmith (talk) 05:01, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
You are correct re date. I thought the MCG match extended into early 1867 but it turns out that was just the date of publication. The 66-67 team and the 68 team which toured England are essentially the same. Charles Lawrence took over as captain-coach during the NSW leg of the 66-67 tour and took them to England the following year. Some members died and had to be replaced. - HappyWaldo (talk) 05:20, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Why is this image any better than the current image? If we just want an old image, then we have an 1858 image that is even older. But I don't believe that an old sketch of a local match is more illustrative than a photograph of probably the most memorable ashes series in history. Once again, if we feel the article needs indigenous Australian images (and I feel it does), then by all means add them. But we shouldn't be trying to shoehorn a twofer into another section at the expense of illustrating that section. Can someone explain why this image is an improvement over the current one, or why the current one needs to be removed?Mark Marathon (talk) 08:04, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
As an illustration of a cricket match, I think the proposed image does a better job as it shows batsmen running between the wickets as opposed to one batsman crouching. I guess this comes down to which "defining moment" we would rather use to represent the important role cricket has played in Australian culture since the 1800s: the English cricket team using Bodyline at the Gabba in the 1932-33 Ashes series (which Australia lost), or the first team to represent Australia overseas—a cricket team comprised of Aborigines—playing on the Melbourne Cricket Ground in 1866. - HappyWaldo (talk) 13:12, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
We don't use "defining moments" to illustrate any other section of the article - apart from History, of course - nor can I see any similar article doing likewise. We can certainly use a more up-to-date image, though, and I suggest we move a little further ahead in time, rather than haring off into the past. --Pete (talk) 15:28, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
It is interesting to note that the image used on the 'Australia' article is the same cricket image which is used on the Sport in Australia page - while images of the Indigenous Australian cricket team are not represented on either page. Figaro (talk) 09:13, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
A compromise can, perhaps, be reached by creating a special Australian cricket page and having as many Australian cricket images on the page as wanted, or thought necessary, to illustrate the sport in connection with Australia. Just my two cents worth. Figaro (talk) 09:13, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
It would be entirely appropriate at History of Australian cricket, for example. --Pete (talk) 12:53, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
I agree. Figaro (talk) 09:39, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2014[edit]

"The population of 23.1 million is highly urbanised and heavily concentrated in the eastern states." This statistic in the lead is now inaccurate, it's approximately 23.58 million. <-- Taken from the same source. Crystallisation (talk) 01:07, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done - by another - Arjayay (talk) 10:04, 29 August 2014 (UTC)