Talk:Auto racing

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From the article:[edit]

Illegal street racing is not drag racing.

This sentence seems to be wrong and ill-placed on many levels. First, street racing in general can take many forms of auto racing (of which drag racing is the most popular). This is like saying "drinking is illegal in some countries" as opposed to "drinking alcohol is illegal in some countries".

Second, drag racing, as defined in the article itself, constitutes covering a straight distance of a given length in the shortest amount of time, the distance traditionally being the quarter mile. No part of the term 'illegal street racing' is in opposition of that definition. I have removed this sentence from the article, please reply here if you disagree. GodGell 02:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd disagree. "Street racing", by definition, differs from drag racing, which is sanctioned & run on controlled tracks. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Should the term "motorsport" be used as a redirection to auto-racing? I mean, when I think of motorsports, I think of auto-racing, motorcycle racing, motorboat racing, and air racing. Should motorsport (and the plural form) be used as a disambiguation for for different types of motorsport and not just auto-racing? - Captain Spyro, 2005

Note: I added a mention to motorboat racing and air racing at the top of the page. - Captain Spyro, 2005

Yopu're absolutely right! Auto racing is only a fraction of the whole spectrum of motorsports and even then is IMO an unusual term worldwide. German and Spanish Wikis among other too have auto racing articles, but they also have motorsport articles in general. There should be seperate "motorsport" article with a link to the sub-species. The Rre-direct is just wrong 213.243.182.3 21:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed the term "psuedo-sport" (sic) from the introduction.--Ciroa 22:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


What is a rally raid? Is it the same as off-road racing? --rmhermen

What you call off-road racing is not off-road racing. Off-road is rallycross and autocross. Baja races and the Paris-Dakar Rally are called Cross-Country Rallies, which isn't the same as rallying either. --Pc13 08:27, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't want to start a US vs other languages war but I never hear any of those terms in common usage. Where I live it is almost always "motorsport" and of course includes all forms of motorcycle racing. --dramatic

Petrol fueled ?[edit]

"The beginning
"Auto racing began almost immediately after the construction of the first successful gas-fueled autos."

Is that meant to indicate gas as in gasoline/petrol, or some form of gas? Gas as in gasoline is mainly US usage. Moriori 03:13, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Please pick either "gasoline" or "petrol" and stick with it. There is no reason to use synonyms randomly.75.208.127.252 (talk) 22:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

In early racing they were also steam powered automobile and the first car to break the 100 km/h bareer was electic powered thus I tweak the beginning. Ericd 22:24, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Why was petrol fueled restablished ? IMO this hide the fact that there was a serious competition between petrol, steam and electric engines in the beginning. Ericd 07:07, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree with eliminating distinction regarding the vehicle's power source, especially as a couple of the cars racing at Le Mans this year were powered by fuels other than the typical "petrol" (diesel and bio-diesel).
Going on the old adage, "the race began the moment after they built the second one," I'd say we should remove any indication of the power source, vis "Auto racing began almost immediately after the construction of the first automobile." Hopefully fill out some of the early benzine/steam/diesel/electric races going on. It's all about four wheels, right?
Agree: energy source is not material; all that matters is that the energy powers a mechanical "motor" on board to mobilize a car. An automobile could compete against a man or horse without needing a second automobile. 75.208.127.252 (talk)
I'd like to fill out the "history" section a bit. Any suggestions as to sources?
--User:Atombaby 00:19 13 Nov 2004

Single-seater racing[edit]

Should this section be called single-seater racing or open wheel racing? A google test shows that "open wheel racing" is ten times as prevalent as "single-seater racing". Personally, I would always call it "open wheel racing". Comments? --Timc 15:16, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The usage of "open-wheel racing" exists only in North America. In Europe it's always called "single-seater racing" or a translation thereof. --Pc13 08:27, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
What about "formula"? AFAIK, these types are the only racing cars that are governed by a "forumla" (i.e. displacement, weight, etc) and carry the "formula" moniker, similar to sailing formulas.
--User:Atombaby 00:10, 13 Nov 2004
No, that won't do - not so long ago intenational rallying had a Formula 2 championship. Here in Britain, "single-seater" is by far the most common term. Loganberry 05:01, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
No, because that implies "spec" racing, which covers more than that. I'd suggest heading it "single-seater" & open the section with a double def, "single" & "open-whl". Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Autosport magazine[edit]

I note that autosport redirects here. I would say that to British motorsport fans, and probably to European enthusiasts in general, the word Autosport overwhelmingly means the weekly motorsport-related magazine of that title rather than the sport itself, and since there is an article for F1 Racing magazine, I'd say there should be one for the much more widely read Autosport. Possibly it could go Autosport (magazine), with a disambiguation page at autosport, or at least a note about this other usage of the word? There's also a Motor Sport magazine in the UK, but this is less important. Autosport, however, has considerable influence, and surely deserves an article. Loganberry 23:00, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

My opinion is that when an article for the magazine is created it should be at Autosport with a disambig note to the auto racing article. SamH 10:22, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sports Car[edit]

Didn't see a mention of the TransAM series. It's fallen to the wayside of late, but for many years (AFAIK) it basically was road-racing in the States. I was thinking about adding it, but couldn't decide where it'd be appropriate. It's in between touring car (being run on road-courses) and stock-car (because the cars have only the shell of a production vehicle, stickers for headlamps, etc). -- User:Atombaby 5 November 2004

Transam was the US version of touring car. And as long as remember the regulation were similar to European Group 2 : the car were seriously tuned but had more than the shell in common with a production vehicle Ericd 22:24, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Good point. I was uncertain of the regulations regarding Transam, just looked at the format (basically a tubular race-designed frame with a shell). Curious how both transam and stock car have developed similarly- from tuned production vehicles through to vehicles with only the engine and logo similar to the original. Stock cars from the late 70's and early 80's looked a lot more like what you could buy, versus the modern era, with only the engine and logo that harken to the road-going car.
Anyway, thinking that road-racing is probably more appropriate. Unless there's any objections...
-- User:Atombaby 7 November 2004
Shouldn't Trans-Am be mentioned in the Sports Car section instead of the Touring car category, since that series involves (or represents, however you wish to say it) 2-door sports cars like the Corvette, Jaguar, and Mustang over 4-door sedans? - User:Captain Spyro - Feb, 2005

Maybe, but back in the day. Those family cars were NOT considered sports cars except by kids who drove there parents cars. Pony cars were really a seperate breed. Nobody put them in with MGB's and Triumphs. The racing versions did not have a back seat but the streetcar versions did. It’s not 4 door but more than two passenger that made a difference. Corvettes, Cobras, Jaguar sports cars were not 4 passenger cars. GT

Agree. Trans Ams aren't what I'd consider touring cars; the big Benzs now are. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Agree, this really should be included. Trans AM racing has had a resurgence and should be included somewhere in this article. A good source for current information on the status of this racing class can be found at http://www.trans-amseries.com/Schedule.htm. Zenhog (talk) 00:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Link suggestions[edit]

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The first American automobile race[edit]

Some of the facts are a little mixed up as it is now written. A better writer than me will need to fix it. There was an exhibition race on November 2, 1896, from Jackson Park in Chicago to Waukegan and back (about 90 miles) but there were only two cars--the Duryea car and a German-built Benz. The Duryea crashed near Evanston and left only the Benz to finish. The actual race was on November 28 and scheduled for the same length but because of heavy snow was shortened from Jackson Park to Evanston and back (about 50 miles). Six cars started the race, two electric, three gasoline powered Benzs, and the gasoline powered Duryea. Only one of the German cars finished the race, and neither of the electrics. Duryea won the race, an hour and a half or so ahead of the remaining Benz. Of course all of this ignores the Great Steam Car Race of 1878.12.74.168.251 04:43, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Motorsport Wiki[edit]

If anyone is interested, there is a dedicated [Motorsport Wiki] currently under development. Any contributions from wikipedians is very much apreciated! MonkeyMumford 20:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Anglo-centric?[edit]

Parts of this article have a UK-centric feel, which is somewhat ironic considering the American-English title. Note the following sentences:

  • "Single-seater (open-wheel) racing is perhaps the most well-known form of motorsport." (That's not the case in the U.S., where NASCAR is far and away the best-known form of auto racing.)
  • "The best-known variety of single-seater racing is the Formula One World Championship." (Probably true worldwide, but in the U.S., it would be IRL or Champcars. Maybe it should say "Outside of the U.S.") Mwalcoff 04:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Formula One is still the best-known variety of single-seater racing in the U.S.

-oo0(GoldTrader)0oo- (talk) 01:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

  • "Stock car racing is the American variant of touring car racing." (Or is touring car racing the British variant of stock car racing?)

Should the article be adjusted to reflect a more-global view? -- Mwalcoff 04:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

This article as a whole sucks, as it is a merry muddled jumbled mess of mish-moshed sections which have little to no cohesion. But, this article is definitely not UK-centric, it is instead reflective of worldwide perspectives on motorsports. The best-known variety of motorsports worldwide is single-seaters, and the best-known variety of single-seater racing worldwide is Formula 1. NASCAR and IRL/Champ Cars, while big in the US, are decidedly small-time on the rest-of-the-world stage. FCYTravis 05:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
True, but I'm inclined to agree touring car is a variant of NASCAR, which dates to 1949, & not the reverse. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
i don't think many people would agree touring car racing is a variant of NASCAR (i would consider both to be too fundamentally different to be considered a variant of the other), even if it were a desendant, which i am not aware of. I think Mwalcoff's very suggestion is terribly US-centric, there always seems a need to point out any difference where the US position is different to that of the rest of the world, but not from any other country.

i wouldn't be so sure of the 'correctness' of the statement brought into question however; is F1 coverage/following (which, surely represents 90%+ of single-seater racing following, atleast in EU), greater than the combined following of Rally racing + touring car + NASCAR, and the various other lesser two+ seater racing forms.. ~ Bungalowbill —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 06:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Please add an article on auto racing rules[edit]

Dear Sir/Madam: I'd like to understand auto racing rules (about which I know nothing at present). You seem to have no article on the subject, and the one about FIA lists no rules.

So please add an article explaining the rules of this sport.

Thank you very much! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.41.31.53 (talk) 20:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

Whoever crosses the finish line first usually wins.

-oo0(GoldTrader)0oo- (talk) 01:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

New pages for driver and car[edit]

There should be two articles for race car driver and race car. The racing driver article should include descriptions of what does one and how they have evolved along the history, and the race car needs all the car types and the history of their evolution. What do you say? -- NaBUru38 19:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

error?[edit]

Under the drag race section the following is included, "Average street cars cover the ¼ mile (400 m) anywhere from 15 to 20 seconds..." I am not an expert at all but that seems like a real long time. Just checking. Rugz 16:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not. That's about typical. And recall, cars that can't run 13s don't even require helmets under NHRA rules. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

What is an Average street car?

-oo0(GoldTrader)0oo- (talk) 01:20, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Why motorsport redirects to Auto racing?[edit]

Please see more on my old question: Talk:Motorsport#Why motorsport redirects to Auto racing? SharShar 21:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Open road [citation needed][edit]

I added the tag: the Monte Carlo Rally is still run, & on open highways AFAIK. (Unless the marshals close them for the duration...but I don't think so. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

While stage rallies such as the Monte Carlo Rally still use public roads, the roads are always closed to the public during the timed speed sections of such events. There are no sanctioned and legitimate speed contests conducted on open public highways, because of the clear and present safety issues posed to competitors and non-competitors alike. It would not do to come flying around a corner at 150 mph only to encounter a local motorist's family sedan traveling at 45 mph - the results would be catastrophic for both vehicles.
There are time-speed-distance rally events conducted on open public highways, but these rallies are invariably judged on the driver's ability to precisely navigate routes between checkpoints within fixed time limits, rather than outright speed. TSD rallies must be timed within legal speed limits. FCYTravis 03:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Requested Move 1 : "Motor racing"[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 05:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


auto racing is an american term, and motor racing did not originate in the US. motor racing is used to refer to 'car racing' (or, 'auto racing') and not racing of anything with a motor (including watersports etc), as stipulated in the article here. ~ Bungalowbill

According to the article, auto/motor racing originated in France so should the article be moved to Compétition automobile? WP:ENGVAR says: "In the early stages of writing an article, the variety [of English] chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used, unless there is reason to change it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic."AjaxSmack 05:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
note "In the early stages of writing an article,". this is not "In the early stages". Furthermore, France is in the EU, this is en.wikipedia, and british english represents the english language of the EU. ~ Bungalowbill
You missed the point. The guideline is that we leave articles in the form of English in which they were originally created, so as to avoid pointless arguing over which variety of English is The Wrong Version (tm). FCYTravis 18:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I should leave this alone but I can't help it. The first auto/motor race occurred in 1895 in France followed by one the same year in the USA. However, WP:ENGVAR should be thrown out because the EU (established 98 years later), which includes France, also includes the UK? Interesting premise but oppose the move. — AjaxSmack 18:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose The FIA is not the International Motormobile Federation. 132.205.44.5 03:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose per AjaxSmack. Vegaswikian 22:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This section is confusing as it is not mentioned anywhere what the proposed new article name was. Same for Requested Move 2. --Falcadore (talk) 21:59, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Requested Move 2 : "Motor racing"[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was WITHDRAWN, please debate in request 3 below! ~ nov 5 2007


firstly i appologise for re-opening the debate, however i did not visit soon enough to reply to anything, and so i belive this is the proper procedure.

in responce to AjaxSmack; "Europe" then. "EU" and europe are often interchanged so i used eu. And yes, i believe the fact that France is in Europe with Britain to be a better reason to chose the article's langauge than the fact that the article was started by an american. I used to be under the impression that wikipedia did not support american collonialisation of the internet. i don't see WP:ENGVAR to be conclusive in favour of not changing it. it also states "European Union institutions—(British English)" as an example of "strong ties" where the language should be chosen.

Furthermore, (and perhaps more importantly) "auto racing" does not make sense in anything but american-english, the phrase "auto" means "automatic" not automobile in english-english. So 'auto racing' could quite easily refer to robot races or something. The phrase "motorsport" however is not so ambiguous, as far as i can tell. (please speak up if otherwise)

WP:ENGVAR states: "Use an unambiguous word or phrase in preference to one that is ambiguous because of national differences. For example, use alternative route (or even other route) rather than alternate route, since alternate means only "alternating" to a British English speaker." i belive auto racing is a stronger case than even this example.

Similarly, the (french) "automobile" in FIA is not "auto" so that point is moot. ~ Bungalowbill Nov 1, 2007

  • Oppose Motorsport is ambiguous, as things that are not cars have motors, such as speedboats. And racing anything with a motor for motive force is a motorsport. 132.205.99.122 19:28, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose per the discussion the last time. I'll also request that this be closed reviewing the previous discussion where there was 75%-80% opposed to moving. Don't see how this is a no consensus. Vegaswikian 03:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
ok, since there is clearly opposition still (motorsport is viewed as ambiguous?+) i am going to withdraw the requested move and create another to move it to "Automobile racing". This is even used at the start of the article so i don't see how there can be much arguement against that.. vegaswikian; i agree that the last one was a consensus of 'opposed' but that is irrelivant, this is a NEW request opened, with a new arguement (primarily ambiguity), it should not be ignored because of the previous one.
+i must disagree that speedboat racing tends to be refered to as 'motorsport' however i appreciate your arguement, and atleast motorbikes could fall under the title. ~ Bungalowbill Nov5 2007
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested Move 3 : "Automobile racing"[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 08:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


Proposed move to Automobile racing on the following grounds;

  • quotes from WP:ENGVAR:
  • In choosing words or expressions, especially for article titles, there may be value in making choices that avoid varying spellings, where possible. In extreme cases of conflicting names, a common substitute (such as fixed-wing aircraft) is favored over national varieties (fixed-wing aeroplanes [British English], and fixed-wing airplanes [American English]).
  • Use an unambiguous word or phrase in preference to one that is ambiguous because of national differences. For example, use alternative route (or even other route) rather than alternate route, since alternate means only "alternating" to a British English speaker.
  • "Auto racing" is ambiguous for non-american-english speakers. Auto refers to "automatic" in british-english etc. (as above). It is also just not a phrase which is used or immediately understood/recognisable.
    automobile racing is clear in all variants of english, and specific to the article (arguably unlike motorsport). It is also used as the primary phrase in the main body of the article. Automobile racing does not favour one variety of english, unlike auto racing, which is US-EN, or motorsport/racing which may be predominantly GB-EN. therefore should avoid and further issues with the article title. ~ Bungalowbill Nov 5 2007
  • I'd argue that "Automobile racing" is also US-ENG, and so the same problem would persist. ELIMINATORJR 15:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Oppose - Choosing a name that is used neither in the US nor the UK would not be an improvement. --EncycloPetey 04:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Drag Racing Objective[edit]

I'm not highly knowlegable about drag racing, but I think this opening statement is misleading.

In drag racing, the objective is to complete a certain distance — traditionally ¼ mile (400 m), though 1/8 mile {200m} has become popular since the 1990s — in the shortest possible time.

As I understand it, the objective of drag racing is to beat the other car to the finish the line. Depending on reaction time, in a professional class, the winning car could have a longer ET than the losing car. Or, in the case of sportsman racing, the winning car could take longer to complete the distance. I think it would be more clear to say this:

In drag racing, the objective is to complete a given straight-line distance, from a standing start, ahead of a vehicle in a parallel lane. This distance is traditionally ¼ mile (400 m), though 1/8 mile {200m} has become popular since the 1990s. The vehicles may or may not be given the signal to start at the same time, depending on the class of racing.

--Tedd 18:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't quite do it either - it doesn't take into consideration dial-your-own-time racing. A vehicle crossing the line first may break out (go faster than the dialled-in time), therefore lose, even if the other car is much, much slower. I'd suggest removing most of the info about drag racing as it has its own wiki entry.

Motorracer (talk) 23:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

RENAME - "Motorsport" - or create "Motorsport" category[edit]

This article should be renamed to Motorsport, as typing Motorsport actually re-directs here to Auto racing.

As others have stated, the term "motorsport" applies to any vehicle which is powered by an engine. This is well-established, and includes car racing in its' various forms, motorcycle racing, truck racing, powerboat racing, and could even include the relativly new sport of air racing (such as the Red Bull Air Race series).

Alternatively, leave this section for "four-wheel" racing, and create another page, or category, called Motorsport which covers all aspects of racing as mentioned above. -- Teutonic Tamer 11:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if I'd buy into your definitions as to the scope of either term. But I'd say leave this article as it is.
The Category:Motorsport already exists.
I don't have any big objection if you
  1. Create a new Motorsport (disambiguation) page (you can click on the redlink to start it), and add a disambiguation link here along the lines of "Motorsport redirects here; for other uses, see Motorsport (disambiguation).
  2. Replace the redirect at Motorsport with a disambiguation page so that anybody who links to that or types it in the "Go" box gets the disambiguation page instead of this article.
  3. Write a more fleshed-out article there instead. Just open the redirect page and start typing to write either a disambiguation page or an article. You can use the "main article" templates and summarize existing articles for most of the various sports involved. Gene Nygaard (talk) 12:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Infobox picture[edit]

Do we really need a picture like this in the infobox? I believe the infobox picture should represent what is immediately thought of when the term "Auto racing" is brought to mind and should represent auto racing is an as generalized form as possible -- while this current WRC picture may be neat in many ways, it does not in any way represent the majority of racing! Rally cars do not represent the majority of racing, and rally cars flipping over and worse, driving on two wheels (!) is very rare indeed. This is not a circus or stunt article! Why is this picture there? Is it some kind of joke? Or did some fanboy of WRC and the Peugeot 206 put it there?

The picture should NOT be Rally of any kind, Rally is one of the few genres of auto racing where the cars do not actually compete simultaneously.

The picture should be of the starting grid of e.g. F1, GP2, Indy Car, Nascar, GT, JGTC or something like that.

Why starting grid? Because in the majority of racing race cars compete simultaneously against each other.

Please remove this picture and put something even remotely appropriate there, it just looks silly.

Posix memalign (talk) 04:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely agree, and moreover, the picture of an accident in progress is a very negative representation of the sport. Would an article on football contain a picture of a footballer lying on the ground after a successful tackle? --Falcadore (talk) 09:58, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

External links[edit]

Surely we should have a separate page which deals with motorsport sanctioning bodies globally as opposed to a potentially ever-expanding list of external links at the bottom of this page. Some of the links don't even need to be there as they already have Wiki entries (e.g. FIA, National Hot Rod Association, etc). I propose we make a separate category/page that deals with these on a global basis and open the submissions from other countries. Then each sanctioning body could eventually have its own Wiki entry, kind of like what happens for List of auto racing tracks.

Motorracer (talk) 00:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Ban[edit]

There should be an article about motor racing bans, such as that imposed by the Swiss until 2007 and the one proposed by Italy (which made Ferrari withdraw from some competitions). Anyone fancy making it? 91.110.130.32 (talk) 19:13, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

 Possible. It could be a section in this article. See Auto racing#City-to-city racing. 75.208.176.27 (talk) 04:51, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

History and classifications sections: Woefully inadequate[edit]

The above sections should have more detail on how the various classes and flagship races came about. It should also be clear on what the differences are. This lack of info has led to a lot of merger moves on the daughter articles Vinay84 (talk) 03:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

racecar[edit]

race car redirects here, but little is said about the actual cars, shouldn't it have its own article? 98.206.155.53 (talk) 16:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Possible rename[edit]

A discussion is in progress at WP:MOTOR about possibly renaming this article. Please contribute any views you may have at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport#Rename Auto racing?. DH85868993 (talk) 02:28, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Dubious[edit]

First formal race[edit]

Re: this sentence about the 1895 race:

the Paris–Bordeaux–Paris race is sometimes considered the first formal automobile race since all competitors started together.

This is confusing, even if they were racing against the clock it would still be a real race. Many races are clock based. The 1894 race really does seem to be the first formal race, as a spectator sport and not a gentleman's bet. Green Cardamom (talk) 03:47, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The text was changed to: "The Paris–Bordeaux–Paris race of June 1895 has sometimes been erroneously described as the first motor race, despite the 1894 event being decided by speed and finishing order of the eligible racers." [emphasis mine]. This is obviously a disputed point of view. It expresses an opinion without source or rationale. If some authority describes it as the first, that should be mentioned. If some authority lists an earlier race as the first, the it should be mentioned ahead of this one. The 1894 contest was not judged on speed alone. The "winner" was subsequently disqualified. The text in the article lists two manufacturers as the winner, not a particular car. 75.208.176.27 (talk) 04:41, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

First Played?[edit]

Surely there is a more appropriate title for this in the infobox at the top. I can't think of one off the top of my head but "first played" doesn't seem to me to be the correct term for motorsport. Bigdon128 (talk) 20:51, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I've changed it to "first contested". DH85868993 (talk) 14:10, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
That's the word I was looking for, thank you very much. Bigdon128 (talk) 21:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


Paris–Rouen: the world's first motoring contest[edit]

I do not agree with the conclusion that detaining the victory to de Dion vehicle was caused by it's need of a stoker. While it is often heard that it was not easy to handle (gasoline cars at this time weren't, either), it in fact didn't need a stoker. One of the prime achievements of the patented boiler (invented by Bouton and Trépardoux in 1882-1883) was, that it allowed handling by a single person. Anyway, it is somewhat strange that a vehicle needing a forbidden stoker was allowed to start at all; already the pre-selection run (which was, iirc, also won by de Dion) should have proved it's irregularity. Is it possible that it was an act of arbitrary by Giffard? He and the count de Dion had developed a deep antagonism over the Dreyfuss affair, which was settled quite publicly before.--Chief tin cloud (talk) 12:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)