Talk:Autodromo Nazionale Monza

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Coords[edit]

I corrected the coordinates of the circuit. The coordinates given are for the start/finish line, taken from Google Earth (on a low resolution photo).--Ciroa 22:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)--

Assessment for F1 WikiProject[edit]

I assessed this as Start class, but I believe this strongly could be a B-class article with references. Guroadrunner (talk) 09:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Following my earnest effort with all the inline citations (from the existing bare URL ELs), I've changed both the F1 and Motorsport Projects from a 'start' to a 'C' class. I hope this is OK. But there still needs to be further independent references to make it worthy of a 'B' class. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 07:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Spelling[edit]

The spelling of the name of this circuit is wrong. The correct spelling is: "Autodromo Nazionale di Monza" (is missing "di", genitive). If no one has concerns, I'll rename it if few days. --Wizard IT (talk) 12:10, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The circuit's official website spells it as "Autodromo Nazionale Monza", i.e. without the "di", so I suggest we stick with that. DH85868993 (talk) 13:56, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
I suppose it's simply an orthographic mistake. It's fixed now. Elk Salmon (talk) 12:21, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Interestingly, the text on that page refers to the circuit as just "Autodromo di Monza", i.e. without the "Nazionale". So if the article is to be renamed, perhaps that should be taken into account? DH85868993 (talk) 02:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup?[edit]

Why all this "citation needed" tags?? --ItemirusTalk Page 08:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Because the article is in dire need of inline citations! 78.32.143.113 (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. There's already a tag at the beginning of the article saying more citations are needed. And I agree with that.
The 'banners' at the start of the article (or start of sections) are to warn readers that this particular article is deficient as an 'encylopaedic' article. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Having 100 citation needed tags in the article is ugly. And most of what is being said is true as far as I know. It's just that it lacks citations.
The 'citation needed' tags may be 'ugly', but where an apparent 'statement' in an article is made - it MUST be backed up by an inline citation. If it doesn't have a citation - then there are two options: add the 'citation needed' tag, or remove the unreferenced text! Furthermore, when you state specific persons, especially when dealing with deaths, then it is absolutely VITAL that they have an inline citation - see WP:BIOG. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I have a book on F1 race tracks which I think could be used as a resource. But does every sentence really need a citation? That can't be right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.201.190 (talk) 15:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
If you have a book which covers this article, then use the appropriate citation template, and ensure you quote specific page numbers from your book for each sentance in this article which needs a citation. And yes, EVERY sentance should have a citation, and this would be the ideal way of achieving a high quality encyclopaedic article - however, trying to find a reference for every citation may prove difficult - and ommissions of citiations from some sentances shouldn't be a major problem. But this article has hardly any inline citations, and that is a major issue. I'm sorry all these 'citation needed' tags make it look ugly - but that is how Wikipedia works. Kind regards - oh, and don't forget to 'sign' any future comments on 'talk/discussion' pages with four 'tildes' ~~~~, thanks. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
"EVERY sentance should have a citation" not really, "Sources should be cited when adding material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, when quoting someone, when adding material to the biography of a living person, and when uploading an image. " --Typ932 T·C 20:58, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Typ932, your lack of comprehension of the English language is very apparent, because you missed the text emphasis on the word "should" - "EVERY sentance should have a citation" - in other words, ideally every sentance should be referenced. But the crucial issues of this article is that there are MANY statements of 'facts' (or apparent facts), and these specific facts MUST be backed up by citations (or have the 'citation needed' tag). Furthermore, citations MUST be added for ALL comments on persons, weather living or dead - and especially so when it is a 'major event' in that persons 'life' (such as births, marriages, and particularly deaths). Why do you think the Assessment for F1 WikiProject failed to achieve nothing more than a Start class on the quality scale. The article, as it stands - whilst it provides very good comprehensive information, can NOT be verified - so in order for this article to improve its 'quailty', effort needs to made to search and include inline citations. :) 78.32.143.113 (talk) 07:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
I know very well what should means, but the case is that citations should be used only when needed... and yes I know very well citations is needed for this article but "citation needed" tag is not needed here in every sentence...everyone smart enough knows it by reading the article.... --Typ932 T·C 12:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
You are fundamentally wrong. I suggest you look at citation needed article and Template:citation needed template! Quotes from pages:

used to identify questionable claims which lack a citation to a reliable source, Many editors object to what they perceive as overuse of this tag, and the most important quote All direct quotations, statistics, and facts whose accuracy might be challenged require citations

So I state again - ALL points of 'fact' or 'statistics' MUST have inline citations - if they don't have inline citations - either tag them accordingly, or REMOVE the unreferenced text. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 12:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Can you read? I just wrote that "should be used only when needed.." and needed here means just that same thing you wrote, but its not for all sentences as you said earlier. this is pointless discussion once again... --Typ932 T·C 13:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

~ As solely a reader, and not an editor, may I say it's an absolute disgrace the amount of "citation needed" tags that dot this page. Is the person who jotted them down seriously questioning that the circuit was heavily changed following Senna's death in 1994? Sounds like someone has a grudge more than anything.

Citations[edit]

There is no need to put the article full of citation needed tags, its enough to have refimprove tag in the beginning of section, the article is almost unreadable state at the moment when messed with tags... --Typ932 T·C 19:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Wrong, I suggest you read the WP:MOS 78.32.143.113 (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I suggest you would use some of ur brains... --Typ932 T·C 20:52, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
<sigh> That was a very constructive and helpful comment! <rolls eyes> 78.32.143.113 (talk) 07:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
as much contsructive as your comment above have you read it by urself? seems not --Typ932 T·C 12:21, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
I can only agree with Typ932 about the unreadability of the page. It suffers of over-citations now... --Jollyroger (talk) 17:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, what's with all the citation tags? It's really an eyesore. Not every single statement needs 2 or 3 citations to back it up, especially when it's something like the track layout, which is not exactly subject to interpretation or bias. Does someone have a bit of OCD? Wannabe rockstar (talk) 23:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

The tags are retarded --83.132.34.187 (talk) 03:31, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


78.32 etc. seems to have been banned for edit-warring; I'm going to take the initiative, then, to organize this article. The same citation doesn't have to appear 3-4 times in the same sentence, especially for trivial things like having a citation for the assertion that the track is in Monza. Ridiculously unnecessary. Wannabe rockstar (talk) 20:31, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Motorcycle racing[edit]

Being as this article is in the Motorcycle racing WikiProject, there seems to be very little info in the article on how Monza facilitates motorcycle racing. Perhaps someone from the WikiProject can add further info - there is plenty of info in the already included MonzaNet citations. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 07:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Overuse of Citations?[edit]

I'm starting a new section because the old citations block on this discussion page was fair time ago and sounds like an argument that can't be that productive. All I want to do here is state my opinion and see what comes of it, without the risk of having my head bitten off. Personally, I feel that the 'History' section has far too many citations. I won't argue that citations are necessary, of course they are, but taking the first sentence, nine citations (many of which are duplicates) seems quite excessive. It makes quick reading and scanning of the article more tricky than it should be, looks messy and seems a little facetious. I'd suggest putting all the citations at the end of the relevant sentence - this would clean it up, no information would be lost and using the first sentance as an example, we could lose six duplicated citations without losing information or making it ambiguous. Also, looks at the first sentence of the second paragraph - only two citations (5 and 6) are needed but putting them in after every single fact seems rather silly and excessive. "In 1928, the most serious Italian racing accident to date[5][6] ended in the death of driver Emilio Materassi[5][6] and 27 spectators[5][6] at that year's Grand Prix" could easily be changed to "In 1928, the most serious Italian racing accident to date ended in the death of driver Emilio Materassi and 27 spectators at that year's Grand Prix[5][6]" because all the information in that sentence can be found in those references - highlighting "the most serious Italian racing accident", the death of Materassi and the deaths of the spectators seperately when the info comes from the same sources seems unnecessary. Anyway, that's just my opinion and suggestion - any thoughts? FaithHealer1 13:23, 8 September 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.49.249 (talk)

It does need a citation trim I do agree with you, there are paragraphs with several cites after every clause. Feel free to make the changes, although it is on my mental to-do list when I get the time. QueenCake (talk) 21:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)