Talk:Autofellatio

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February 5, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted
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A better replacement image...[edit]

Since the majority of the objections seem to center on the perceived prurient nature of the photograph, I would ask would anyone object if I tried to find a picture of Ior Bock performing the act? Since for him autofellatio was a religious sacrament, the pornography argument would be kicked into the long grass. On an existential level there should be a way to get at least a screencap, since a Finnish television channel broadcast him in the act live (and hopefully will have kept the recording, though them releasing it might be another thing). It could be hard work to find a person who has kept a personal video of it (though I do have some weird friends, so I could ask aroundc :), but if one could be found, a screencap might be a better option. The newspaper Helsingin Sanomat also ran a photograph of him limbering up prior to the act by doing yoga. Perhaps that would be even more acceptable, because that picture does illustrate that the flexibility is possible, but it wouldn't actually show the act itself. What do you think, would that fly? -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 00:28, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that we could get a free image. -mattbuck (Talk) 00:52, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Further, I think you misunderstand the motivations behind the people wanting to remove the image. If I've learnt something from all the endless wars over nude images on Commons, it's that people who want to remove nude or sexual images rarely admit the reason they're doing it is because they simply don't want the image there in the first place. They'll come up with a lot of arguments about why it should be removed (too small image on a 12MP photo, out of scope on an image which is in use, no consent on a self-portrait, etc etc) and all of them are just to try and lawyer their way to their goal which is the removal of the image, because they know "I don't like it" would get a speedy kick up the ass. It's the same here I think, people will give reasons why they object to this image, and so we can try and placate them by finding a new one that seems less objectionable on this particular criteria, and then the new one will have a different problem. We could replace it with a drawing and they'd still object. It all boils down to this: if someone doesn't like the image (or more likely doesn't like the subject or wants to WP:THINKOFTHECHILDREN) they will construct a web of claims about why the image is bad to try and get it taken down, no matter what image is used. Call me cynical, I don't care, I look at it this way - the definition of futility is performing the same action over and over and expecting a different result next time. You can assume good faith, but after a while, you have to accept bad faith. -mattbuck (Talk) 01:03, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Hehe, as the originator of the article, and having followed it through nearly a decade, I think there isn't much new about how the discussions about it swirl around. I do apologize if you thought I was speaking in earnest. Text media. (lol, self-edit-conflicted twice. That brings back memories. Thought that wasn't possible anymore.) -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 14:05, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Actually, it doesn't seem to be rare for people to state clearly that they don't think Wikipedia should be turned into Porn Central. Indiscriminate stuffing of explicit images into articles disobeys Wikipedia policies including WP:NOTCENSORED itself. Porn-happy zealots believe that NOTCENSORED stands for the proposition that any offensive image which refers to the article's subject is includable, when that's a perversion of the language of the rule. 70.109.144.96 (talk) 00:44, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
I never said I did support "indiscriminate stuffing" of explicit images into articles. However, I think there is a place for them in an encyclopaedia that attempts to give a comprehensive coverage of human sexuality, and this is one place where such an image is warranted. -mattbuck (Talk) 01:00, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Sadly, any reader can look at the image, and read Wikipedia policy, and see that you're in the wrong. Simply sticking your head in the sand doesn't suffice for correctly applying Wikipedia policy, which states: "Material that would be considered vulgar or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if its omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate." The article would not be less informative, relevant or accurate if there were no image of a man sticking his cock in his mouth; text alone makes it clear what autofellatio is.
Your main fallacy lies in not thinking about obscene images in a different way from regular ones. Regular, non-obscene images can be a valid part of an article merely by showing the main subject. The standard is higher for obscene images. 70.109.144.96 (talk) 04:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
I don't want the image just "because it shows the subject", I want the image because it "photographically shows that the subject is in fact possible". Speaking as someone who is not that flexible, it is hardly obvious that anyone could manage this act. In that manner, having an actual photo, rather than a drawing, is exceedingly useful and causes the article to be more informative. -mattbuck (Talk) 09:22, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


Here is a possible good replacement since the person in the current picture has been banned from WP and this picture has been around the net a lot. It shows the act clearly in a non pornographic manor. If accepted i will upload to commons to the public domain. http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9495/ss02v.jpg— Preceding unsigned comment added by Canter2626 (talkcontribs) 12:59, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

As a commons admin, I can tell you that that image will be deleted on sight as a copyright violation unless you provide evidence of the licence. Just because something has been "around the net a lot" does not mean you have a right to distribute it. -mattbuck (Talk) 13:16, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
I am not 100% sure how to provide that evidence, but you can see that I am the one that has submitted and "pulled" the image in the past, just because I was not sure as to if it would be used. or the correct rights that i should release. In all, i want to make sure that if I sacifice, that it is used for a good cause.````
You need to show that the copyright holder of the image releases it under a free licence, and imageshack generally doesn't provide for that. That "you found it on the internet" does not imply a free licence. -mattbuck (Talk) 14:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh sorry for the misunderstanding, I hosted it on imageshack since it is of ME. It is a picture of me that was taken years ago and has been around a ton. I figured I would host it on imagshack to see if it would be an image worth displaying the content. I figured I didn't want to submit it if it was felt it did not display the content better than the current one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canter2626 (talkcontribs) 14:33, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I see. No worries then. I would say however that the current image is better - that the guy was banned is really irrelevant as long as his image isn't a copyvio. -mattbuck (Talk) 14:44, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Since mine showed from the side, it showed a bit better understanding of the "bending" aspect since his is more straight on. I would submit it to the public domain. You really don't think the one in mine demonstrates and presents a better visualization? I want things to be as educational as possible. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canter2626 (talkcontribs) 14:50, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 September 2012[edit]

Please remove the image Autofellatio6.jpg as it is pornographic. Surely the written decription is enough! Dujomc (talk) 18:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

FAQ: Why this image[edit]

It would be great if the FAQ explained why the image displayed was chosen over other options. Hyacinth (talk) 08:51, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

But then we'd have to answer the question. My guess is along the lines of best-composed image - non-distracting background, not showing unnecessary genitals. -mattbuck (Talk) 09:09, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Why a Photo, and not a drawing? People don't come to Wikipedia to see that. 82.33.90.225 (talk) 23:55, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
They also don't come to Wikipedia because it is known for prudery, luckily. 91.114.193.167 (talk) 23:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Usage of the picture[edit]

Just trying to give my opinion on the picture here. Personally, I do not see how this could be in any way offensive. There is hardly any way that "one of the participants in the picture is forcing the other participant" since there is only one man; there is no showing off "homosexual tendencies" (or "heterosexual tendencies" for that matter) since this is all solo; and it clearly shows the best way such an action is carried out as well as the existent possibility of it. This should easily satisfy any religious people yelling that it is unacceptable on those grounds.

Also, I'm not really certain what other than a picture of autofellatio people would expect when searching for autofellatio. Certainly, if you don't want to see a man sucking his own cock, you'd just not search for an article which is bound to show it? Don't complain about graphic images on an encyclopaedia when those images are used in the same way they're used on articles on about everything else. The argument that "the picture does not add any additional value" could easily be applied to i.e. the Flag of the United States. Why would we need a picture of the flag? The text describes the colours, the shapes, the dimensions and everything correctly and in detail. That is the exact argument being used, and I call that better arguments be used before one claims the picture should be removed. AnnaOurLittleAlice (talk) 15:15, 21 September 2013 (UTC)