Talk:Avocado

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Wikipedia CD Selection
WikiProject icon Avocado is included in the Wikipedia CD Selection, see Avocado at Schools Wikipedia. Please maintain high quality standards; if you are an established editor your last version in the article history may be used so please don't leave the article with unresolved issues, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the DVDs.
 
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Plants (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of plants and botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Food and drink (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
 
WikiProject Mexico (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mexico, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mexico on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the Americas (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the Americas, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indigenous peoples of the Americas on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
Etymology Task Force
WikiProject icon The etymology section in this article is within the scope of the Etymology Task Force, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of etymology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Good This article's etymology section has been rated as good on the task force's quality scale.
Top This article's etymology section has been rated as top-importance on the task force's importance scale.
 

Nutrition of avocados and health effects[edit]

Everyone knows avocados are high in fat, but I wanted to know whether there is evidence that they are bad for you. Would be interested to know what the educated concensus is on this "fruit". Found the co-evolutionary section interesting.


they are high in monounsaturated fat, which is supposed to be good for you...plus if eaten raw or in guacamole, the fat is unheated and also probably hasn't been oxidized much... its a great food...

and a great article by Wikipedia...--72.57.16.170 (talk) 02:41, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Avocado oil[edit]

Importance of avocado oil, extraction and medicinal use.

I seemed to remember something about steroids & avocados, and a quick google brought up this article:
Cosmetic ingredients | Oils & Butters
which includes some interesting information... --Spiggot 20:17, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


Fruit type[edit]

An avocado is a drupe, right? (I just learned that word, having discovered it in another wikipedia article.)

At first glance it appears so, but because the endocarp (the thin coating around the seed) is soft and thin, it's called a berry. I have an explanatory link that I'll add to the article's External links section. - toh 19:46, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)
Well, this may be the case, but the Drupe article says Avocados are Drupes. Someone who knows for sure ought to fix the situation. Solemnavalanche 23:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
It's gotta be a berry: drupes are more like peaches or almonds, with a fleshy outer layer, then a hard kernel, then a seed inside. It's not really relevant how hard the skin is: if there's no hard kernel layer, it's not a drupe. Watermelons are berries.Clickie 06:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
The berry article also says avocados are berries. I vote for a drupe, however, as the avocado is similar to other drupes, such as the olive, which is one of the few other fruits with a substantial fat content. StuRat 00:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree, but we should check in a botany book. I would say drupe because the avocado seed has the hardened endocarp common to drupes; whether or not this is from the ovary wall is the real question. This college taxonomy course identifies avocados as drupes. --Mgreenbe 09:31, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Searching google for avacado and drupe yeilds 206 results vs 17200 for avacado and berry. On this basis, I vote berry! --Username132 16:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't think it's a matter of a vote or Google results, but rather one of a hardened endocarp. The Persea page claims that this genus of laurels produces drupes exclusively, but I can't find a source on-line. I'll run to the biology library on Wednesday and find out. --Mgreenbe 16:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The only criteria should be: is the claim supported by academic publications that have been peer reviewed. Since there is only a single academic paper making the claim that the avocado is not a drupe (by W. B. Storey) and that paper has been delisted by the University of Califorinia, the avocado should retain its historic classification for the time being. ----dneyder 14:40, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Checked a couple of botanical texts, and both said 'berry or drupe', so I guess it doesn't matter. Presumably it depends on the question, how hard does an endocarp have to be, to be called "hard"? It is certainly present, and hardish, but not very hard, in an avocado. - MPF 19:13, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
There is no matter of discussion at all. Avocados are berries. Just ask any teacher of botany rather than google statistics. So many mistakes on websites and so on because such a large berry with such one big thing inside is not usual.
There is no matter of appreciation anyway. Drupes are fruit with woody (or for the least hardy) endocarp. In avocados, the endocarp is just a fluffy whitish layer not easily distinguishable of the flesh but sometimes it does. What you were discussing about previously is the tegument (the brown skin) of the seed.
--Channer (talk) 16:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Fat[edit]

At one point the article states that avocados are high in monounsaturated fats, then later, that they contain a lot of saturated fat. Is this contradictory? Joyous 16:16, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

Theoretically they could be high in both (and low in polyunsaturated fat), but it appears to have been an error; most of the fat is monounsaturated (if squeezed from the flesh, it will remain liquid at room temperature). Someone else has already corrected the error. - toh 19:46, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)

Hass vs. Haas[edit]

Are you sure that hass is so wrong? It's named after Rudolph Haas, a La habra Heights postal worker who patented the variety in 1935.

Even if it's common to spell it Hass, it's hardly correct to say that Haas is wrong.

In any case, this info should probably make it's way into the article.

True that google hits isn't always reliable evidence, but entering ["Rudolph Hass" avocado] gets 108 hits, while ["Rudolph Haas" avocado] only gets two, which seems quite conclusive. I used to think 'Haas' was correct, but the details I've seen on investigating all point to 'Hass' being correct - MPF 09:59, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, every time I'm in a grocery store, the label says "Hass". So I'm suspicious that Haas would be correct. It just seems unlikely to me that a misspelling would be so rampant among grocers, who presumably get the spelling from the growers. --C S (Talk) 07:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
The Calfornia Avocado Commission spells it "Hass" on its website [1] and identifies the owner of the Hass Mother Tree as Rudolph Hass [2]. A Google search for "Hass avocado" gets over 29,000 results and "Haas avocado" gets less than 1,000, a ratio of nearly 30 to 1. Nohat 09:49, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I'd thought it was "Haas" because that's what I see at my local megamart, but both The Visual Food Encyclopedia and Alton Brown (q.v. Good Eats, "Dip Madness") spell it as Hass. I'll take AB's word over Kroger's any day of the week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.136.139 (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It appears that the common misspelling "Haas" stems from confusion with the Haas fruit trading company, which of course, deals in Avocados. John Elson (talk) 14:41, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

avocado gone bad?[edit]

Some guidance on telling when an avocado is ripe would be useful. And is it safe to eat once the inside has gone dark?

The avocado meat (inside) goes from green and hard, to green and soft (ripe), to yellow and sloppy (overripe), and eventually to black (rotten). I don't know if it's exactly unhealthy to eat them when the meat is brown or black, but it seems just revolting to me. When you buy them they may not yet be ripe (they feel rock hard). Ripen them them in a brown paper bag at room temperature (the bag helps them ripen quicker). 3-4 days up to a week or more. The skin should "yield to gentle pressure", and you'll eventually figure out how soft you like them. --CodeGeneratR (talk) 19:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Origin of avocados in the USA[edit]

The article says "Avocados are much more expensive in the USA than other countries due to the fact that they grow almost exclusively in California and Florida, and the main potential competitor (Mexico) is largely banned from the market".

I know from personal experience that Mexican avocados can indeed be found in grocery stores in the US. Does that mean that this ban is over? I don't have any hard data, though. Itub 22:01, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Avocado from Mexico were allowed in the US market from October 15th to April 15 only in 31 states. In 2005, the USDA aproved avocados from Mexico to 47 states (not in FL, CA, HI) year round. In 2007 avocados will be in the 50 states year round.
Since this is a Wikipedia article that is available worldwide isn't it a bit U.S.A. centric? I am a Canadian living in Trinidad and Avacadoes ( called Zaboca here) are a religion in this part of the world. The Trinidad version is much bigger and less "buttery" but apparently lower in calories and yet I see no reference to that fact.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.108.20.183 (talkcontribs).
The only way the article becomes less US-centric is through non-US-centric contributions to the page. Feel free to update the page appropriately. WLU 12:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Amen. I'm watching a British cookery show right now and they're using an avocado with smooth green skin and WHITE flesh. I came here hoping to find out which variety it might be, but there's a terrible paucity of information on non-US varieties. I'd love to hear about the avocados in Trinidad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.136.139 (talk) 19:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Double amen. There's a whole chapter on California, and US attempts to block imports, but no chapter on Mexico, which is by far the largest producer of avocados.

I live in Hawaii, which is part of the USA, and avocados here are so plentiful that they are often given away for free. Avocados (mostly green ones, of both the round and ovoid varieties, not Hass or Haas) grow on all the Hawaiian Islands in abundance, but I do not see this mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonmaui (talkcontribs) 00:41, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Toxicity[edit]

It's worth mentioning that avocados are toxic to many pets (e.g. dogs, cats and birds especially). The leaves and pits of the avocado tree may be toxic to humans as well.

Yes! I didn't know that. I'll remember that money saving tip when it's time to put Sabre down... Work it into the article somewhere --Username132 16:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

It's also worth mentioning that some dog foods are made with avocados. I am not sure it is reliable to say avocado fruit is toxic to dogs. Does anyone have a source for this assertion? It is safer to say some dogs may be allergic to the avocado fruit. The same may be said for cats, but I haven't looked into it.
http://www.breeders-choice.com/dog_products/avodermdog_veg.htm
Leon F. Whitney, The Complete Book of Dog Care. Revised ed. (New York: Doubleday, 1985), pp. 38-40.
--Scot.hale@gmail.com 21:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The scientific article cited in the main article states that the toxic chemical is in avocado leaves, not fruit.Lord Kelvin 02:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for noting that. I updated the paragraph about Avocado as a poison removing all the material that wasn't referenced. Also I made sure it was understood that the fruit is not as toxic as the leaves. --Scot.hale 03:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

It is still not clear in the article, and the makers of Avoderm would likely disagree that avocados are toxic to cats and dogs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.106.142 (talk) 05:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

The ASPCA article doesn't say at all that the fruit is toxic to animals; it talks generally about the plant without specifying which parts are toxic. This article seems to suggest (because of the citation) that the fruit is toxic according to the ASPCA, which is misleading. Looking around online I can't find anything to suggest that the fruit itself is toxic to cats or dogs. 216.9.12.110 (talk) 06:11, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

The Merck Vetinary Manual has a page on avocados which should help clear up what is actually known.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/toxicology/food_hazards/avocado.html
In particular it makes it clear that all parts of the plant contain persin, however the leaves have the most. It lists a bunch of animals known to have had myocardial necrosis and sterile mastitis caused by avocadoes, however only one (old) case of two dogs is known, and it goes on to say that "dogs appear to be relatively resistant compared with other species". Jasonphollinger (talk) 23:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Fruit?[edit]

Why not vegetable?--Nixer 20:27, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

See fruit and vegetable for the answer. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:51, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

When are those Jokers going to learn that vegetables don't grow on trees? John Elson (talk) 07:51, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Botanically, the avocado is unambiguously a fruit. Culinarily, it tends to be more of a vegetable (that is, it's neither sweet nor sour, and is more likely to be used in main courses than in desserts). Some discussion of this point would be welcome if sourceable. --Trovatore (talk) 23:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Sex of tree[edit]

It is worth mentioning that the Avocado trees exist in two sexes: A and B and both must be present in order for the flowers to pollinate and produce fruit planting guide. Because all of the breeds (varieties) currently available are clones of the origional tree of that breed, they are all the same sex and thus, for example, all Hass Avocados are sex A and all Bacon Avocados are sex B.

Avocado trees actually change reproductive sex mid-day. Depending on the tree's sex (A or B), it will be male in the morning and female in the afternoon, or vice-versa, on alternating days.

Preceeding unsigned comments added by User:68.54.34.194 at 16:49 on 28 December 2005

Following comments added to article page by User:219.88.216.162 at 03:34 on 29 December 2005

The avocado is unusual in that the timing of the male and female phases differs among varieties. There are two flowering types, referred to as "A" and "B" flower types. "A" varieties open as female on the morning of the first day. The flower closes in late morning or early afternoon. The flower will remain closed until the afternoon of the second day when it opens as male. "B" varieties open as female on the afternoon of the first day, close in late afternoon and re-open in the male phase the following morning.
"A" Varieties: Hass, Gwen, Lamb Hass, Pinkerton, Reed.
"B" Varieties: Fuerte, Sharwil, Zutano, Bacon, Ettinger, Sir Prize, Walter Hole.

This is sufficiently unusual to require references for verification - I find it hard to trust when the additions also fail to use standard terminology (e.g. saying "variety" rather than 'cultivar') - MPF 09:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Note that the California Avocado Commission Uses the term "variety" to describe this fruit. See [3] LexieM 21:35, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I Am providing refrences here: [4] (see horticulture section), [5] (section on polination and table 1). This is an important and unusual phenomenon in avacado plants, and should be in the article. I am returning it to the article. LexieM 21:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

protein content[edit]

from NATS the following % protein accounts for water content:

spinach   3%
broccoli  3%
mushroom  2%
avocado   2%
lettuce   1%

maturity[edit]

can someone post the time it takes to mature/the life cycle? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 04:52, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is a refrence to use: "Grafted trees begin to produce on a commercial scale after 3 to 4 years. In Florida, yields from mature trees average 2 to 3 bushels per year (110 to 165 lbs; 50 to 75 kg). However, with good management, considerably better production can be expected." [6] 69.171.150.47 18:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Spelling[edit]

I misspelled a link as "avacado," and did not notice because the redirect took the link to the correct page. That resulted in another page having a spelling error that would have been immediately noticed if the redirect had not existed. Can we get rid of the "avacado" redirect? --Darksasami 19:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I agree that's not a common enough misspelling that we need a redirect. (We do have at least 1,420 redirects from misspellings.) -GTBacchus(talk) 19:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I had never seen that misspelling before, but a google search suggests that it is more common than I imagined: about 1 million hits for "avacado" vs 13 million for "avocado". I think the redirect should stay. Itub 15:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I constantly make that spelling error, since that's the way I pronounce it. StuRat 01:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Species[edit]

Not only Persea and P. americana are called avocado. See [7]

Irrigation water[edit]

Explain or delete:

Yield is reduced when the irrigation water has a high electrical conductivity.

Jclerman 11:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

houseplant[edit]

I have one seed of avocado which germinated and produced a green-leavish plant. I am keeping it not in full light of sun, but in a condition of diffused light. Is it better to put it directly under the sun? Will it grow faster or that is different from the expected growing environment? Thanks! --Cantalamessa 14:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I think direct sunlight is best, yes. StuRat 01:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

More expensive?[edit]

I find it difficult to believe that "Avocados are much more expensive in the USA than other countries." They might be cheaper in poorer countries (as is most food), but in comparable (e.g., G7) countries? At any time of year I can get tiny avocados for 20 cents each. At some times of year I can get medium ones for 30. Most of the time, large ones are between 1 and 2 dollars. Is there any source for this claim? Calbaer 01:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

They cost $1-$1.50 in the Detroit area, which does seem like quite a bit compared to, say bananas, at 3 pounds for $1. Avocados were maybe half as much in Los Angeles. StuRat 01:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
In Australia (an avocado growing area) supermarket prices vary between 80 US Cents to $2.00 US (at current exchange rates). Often available 'on clearance' at farm gates and local fruit stores for about 50 cents. (Michael from Queensland 20 March 2007)
In Connecticut the Hass avocados usually cost $2.00 USD each, although sometimes you can find them a bit cheaper, especially if you buy a bag with several. For comparison, in Switzerland, a famously expensive country, you usually find them for about 1.50 CHF, which is about $1.20 USD. So yes, I believe that there is some truth to the claim. Of course, this is just personal experience, so I'm afraid I don't have a citable source. --Itub 08:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I understand that they are supposed to be hella expensive this summer because of the crops were destroyed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dougieb (talkcontribs) 01:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

Determining ripeness?[edit]

Perhaps this is outside the scope of Wikipedia, but I would find it very useful if someone could add an explanation to the article as to how to determine whether an avocado is ripe or not. Avocados have a relatively short window between being unripe and overripe - I know that I can never seen to figure out whether one is ripe or not until I cut it open, after which, it's too late. I would suppose that other people would find this information useful as well. cbustapeck 20:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

A ripe Hass avocado has a black skin and feels slightly soft. You can increase the "ripeness window" to several days by keeping it refrigerated, or you can make it ripen faster by keeping it in a warm place. Itub 21:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I suggest buying them rock hard, then refrigerate immediately. Whenever I buy one even slightly soft, most of it seems to be rotten. StuRat 01:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Refrigerating an avocado stops the ripening process, which is okay if the fruit is already ripe, but counter-productive if it's not. A Hass avocado will get slightly softer and darker as it ripens, so examining the range of colours in the market might give you some help. According to Good Eats host Alton Brown, a good indicator of ripeness is the flesh underneath the tiny stem nub at the end of the fruit - if it's green the fruit is probably either ripe or almost ripe. Here's a transcript. Matt Deres 20:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

What are the black strings that run through a ripe avocado and are they harmful to ingest?

Definitely do not refrigerate an unripe avocado. Doing so will slow the process and most likely will turn the inside of an unripened avocado black. If the avocado yields to gentle pressure and has an overall dark skin (deep purple to black) then your avocado is ripe and can be refrigerated to slow down the ripening process. A good tip is to also test the neck area of the avocado or the top of the avocado where it tapers towards the stem. When overripe this area will crack open and/or feel hollow when gentle pressure is applied. Also make sure to get an avocado that is symmetrical (no flat sides). If the avocado has dents in it or has areas that are beginning to cave in then you have an overripe avocado. Ideally you want to choose an avocado that is symmetrical, heavy, has an overall dark coloring, free from blemish, and yields to gentle pressure. To make sure you are getting an avocado that will not be overripe choose one that is firmer as opposed to softer. If you need the avocado to ripen faster, place it in a bag with an apple or banana. This will speed up the process due to the gas given off inside the bag by the apple or banana.

Ray Ortega (talk) 22:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

So a lot of the ones in produce departments probably rot without being bought. Is that why produce is so expensive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 02:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Yoon and name[edit]

I put back in the information about the name that comes from the NPR story. Please don't delete it. --Gbleem 02:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I just have. That NPR stuff isn't a reliable source, and is POV to the USA without any consideration of global usage. - MPF 14:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
It's too bad Yoon got some of it wrong because I think the changes in the marketing of the fruit in the US probably has a place in the article if there is a better source. --Gbleem 12:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Pre-Columbian cultivation history needed[edit]

this article doesn't appear to have any information on the fruit's use by pre-Columbian Mexicans, the people who presumably first cultivated it. The history stuff just starts off with when Europeans first heard about it, which seems a little unbalanced. So when was it first culivated? and whereabouts in mezoamerica and by what groups specifically? --Krsont 18:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

If you can find out, please add the information! - MPF 22:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
It was probably in all the books the Spanish burned because they thought they were satanic. --Gbleem 11:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, after all that blood sacrifice, beheadings and disembowelings I wonder why they might be prone to that...
"Yeah, after all that blood..." these kinds of comments are so biased and unfounded. I'm sure you haven't heard of the guillotine beheadings in France, or at the Tower of London, or by the Spanish Inquisition and how they tortured and mutilated Indigenous people, and many other European cases. Oh, but those wild pre-Columbians... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.90.46 (talk) 03:06, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Of course, sadly and with anger I add that those post-Colombian Mexicans are outdoing anyone else regarding this. Let's go back to the avocado talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.90.46 (talk) 03:21, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Interesting facts[edit]

I personally find some of these hard to believe, and since I am only slightly unique, I figure other people would too. Particularly the 'locking up Aztec virgins during harvesting' and the 'growers had to dissociate the fruit from sex'.. MGlosenger 02:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup, it's true! Check it! Check it! yo! * All About Avocados, History of Avocados, History of Haas Avocado The timeline on this page is pretty interesting. There are lots of resources on the web and elsewhere for this type info on our Avocado :-D Dougieb 07:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Huh, I never would have guessed. Cool. Still nothing about the Azteca virgins though. MGlosenger 07:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Damn... it's always the VIRGINS! (LOL)... Yes, you are right. Well, I imagine that is where the guacamole and tequila came in, but no matter - a citation you shall have! Dougieb 09:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Works for me. Now that I know about the magical powers of avocados, I'll be having sexual intercourse over and over and over. MGlosenger 10:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Not with Virgins though, because they are not outside (LOL)Dougieb 10:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Tasting notes[edit]

It's interesting to see that this page neglects to mention that the Avocado doesn't taste of anything and looks like a green tinted form of the stuff that comes out of spots when you squeeze them - Maybe this is for the best, it'd be putting all those virgins right off! :)

Lawrie 16:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It has a certain taste to me. Very nutty and mild, but a taste nonetheless. — Sam 20:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
It most certainly has a taste. You must have only tasted your local supermarket version of it, which, in more and more countries, is as bland as all the other fruit and vegetables they grow to look nice with complete disregard to taste. 82.45.63.28 (talk) 16:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Page looking good[edit]

This page is looking great. What would it need to do to be in the running for star class? This really is a great web page, I'm quite impressed. Good work for anyone that edits here JayKeaton 05:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup[edit]

This article needs aesthetic changes. Some images are very small, and some may be unnecessary. It needs a better structure and it only has cultivation information on the US when it is the third produced in the world. --FateClub 19:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the recipes section should be eliminated. Wikipedia shouldn't be in the business of suggesting what avocados are "good" on. "Some people like pear in there too." Come on. Neither relevant (there are thousands of recipes with avocados), nor particularly informative. Is Wikipedia supposed to be a cookbook? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.48.52 (talk) 06:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Watering avocado trees[edit]

How often does an avocado tree need watering if planted in a garden in southern Spain?62.128.182.90 07:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Migraine trigger?[edit]

There is very little evidence that any food is actually a migraine trigger. I get migraines---no food trigger involved. What triggers a migraine remains unknown as a matter of science fact for the time being. Tmangray 00:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Evergreen leaves?[edit]

Leaves are never "evergreen" but trees may be if they get new leaves before old fall.
For some tree species, leaves may live more than 10 years, but avocado leaves only last about 13 months and when they fall they are yellow-brownish like in fall.
Of course the tree is never naked for young leaves are already ready.

Well, flowers are inconspicuous if taken alone, but really they are not alone but millions and blossom is very impressive.

--Channer 17:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

If leaves are never truly evergreen, then wouldn't you logically assume that evergreen means something other than "forever green?" \ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.108.118 (talk) 07:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Dispersion beyond Middle America[edit]

I changed it to Dispersion beyond Middle America, because Central America doesn't include Mexico. The article's first sentence says the avocado is native to Mexico and Central America. Someone changed it back, so apparently there is disagreement. If the avocado is native to just Central America, the introduction should be changed accordingly. Maybe people find the term "Middle America" confusing, because it can also refer to the central part of the U.S. If you can think of a term that includes both Mexico and Central America that is less confusing, please use it.

Also the sentence about Aztecs smearing avocado as a fertility ritual may well be true and not vandalism, but it belongs in another section and needs a citation.Wldcat (talk) 05:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

The article currently says: "aguacate (lawyer)" which implies that "aguacate" is Spanish for "lawyer". But abogado is modern Spanish for lawyer, and the etymology given by the RAE (at rae.es) doesn't mention aguacate being an intermediate form. What gives? As far as I can tell, the article would make more sense by getting rid the word "lawyer", but before I made the deletion, I'd like to see what others thought. Wldcat (talk) 00:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Either way the english word avocado definitely came from the spanish abogado. I think the spanish name for the fruit probably varied between several words that sounded like ahuacatl before settling on one consistent one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 02:46, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The Etymology section of this article make no sense at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.43.55 (talk) 11:55, 15 May 2010 (UTC)


Just read the etymology section...entirely contradictory! It promotes a theory, then refutes it, at least twice. Its fine to say there is a debate, but say there is a debate, don't argue about it and present both as true. Sadly, I know nothing so can't fix it. Brooksmith's (talk) 02:37, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

P. gratissima[edit]

I think this is a former name of P. americana; if so Persea gratissima should redir here instead of to Persea (which does not mention it), and the article should mention the obsolete name. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 11:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

what dose brenette mean[edit]

Hi wat dose brenette mean


what dose brenette mean[edit]

Hi wat dose brenette mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.33.204 (talk) 23:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Evolution[edit]

The section on "evolution" detracts from the whole article. It provides no information regarding the value of the avacado to the environment (as compared with the rest of the article). It is not backed-up with hard evidence, i.e. uses the words, "hypothesize" and "may". Consider removing this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zalzalahbuttsaab (talkcontribs) 05:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, I think it is the _most_ interesting thing on the page. There is a citation (a book no less!) given. On the other hand, I find "Unlike citrus fruits, rodents are attracted to the avocado tree and fruit during breeding." very amusing. Perhaps it should remind readers that "Citrus fruits are instead attracted to ferris wheels, fire hydrants and small children." --Jaded-view (talk) 20:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I strongly agree with Zalzalahbuttsaab (and Jaded-view's facetious comment). I googled "Wild avocado" and refreshed my memory that there are very small varieties with very small pits. That this obvious weakness (alone) in Connie Barlow's "hypothesis" is not addressed suggests the section is abxolutely spurious. Iamknowledgeable (talk) 18:24, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

If everything is not attributed to the All-Powerful and All-Glorious One, Who is the Single One of Unity, but is attributed to causes, it necessitates that many of the elements and causes present in the universe intervene in the being of every animate creature. Whereas that different and mutually opposing and conflicting causes should come together of their own accord in complete order, with the finest balance and in perfect concord in the being of a tiny creature, like a fly, is such an obvious impossibility that anyone with even an iota of consciousness would say: “This is impossible; it could not be!”

The tiny body of a fly is connected with most of the elements and causes in the universe; indeed, it is a summary of them. If it is not attributed to the Pre-Eternal and All-Powerful One, it is necessary for those material causes to be themselves present in the immediate vicinity of the fly; rather, for them all to enter into its tiny body; and even for them to enter each of the cells of its eyes, which are minute samples of its body. For if a cause is of a material nature, it is necessary for it to be present in the immediate vicinity of, and inside, its effect. And this necessitates accepting that the constituents and elements of the universe are physically present inside that minute cell, a place too small even for the tip of its antenna, and that they work there in harmony like a master.

A way such as this, then, shames even the most foolish of the Sophists.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gkhndlr (talkcontribs) 20:41, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

And really, even if all avocados DID have large seeds, there's no reason they'd require a large animal to disperse them. You carry off an apple, you drop its core behind. Dispersed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 03:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

native to Perú, Mexico, South America and Central America[edit]

lol, redundancy much. removed peru not sure about mexico, is it in central or north america, or both?--Mongreilf (talk) 18:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Vitamin E[edit]

It is said in the article that avocado contains vitamin E, but not in the box nutritional value/100g. Could not find the correct amount though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stenemo (talkcontribs) 10:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Avocados in Kenya[edit]

They are loved so much.People add avocados to their food as they eat.This helps improve the taste of the food and the nutritional value as well.So when you take your next meal,just add a slice of Avocado and experience a taste like no other.This is so since Maurice says so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.139.128.2 (talk) 11:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I only recently learned that if they're ripe enough, you can peel them instead of cutting and scooping.--ResoluteTraveler (talk) 02:05, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Hardwood or softwood?[edit]

Very disappointed that this article does not say if this is a softwood, hardwood or semi-hardwood tree —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.30.31.182 (talk) 09:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Generally speaking, softwoods are conifers and hardwoods are angiosperms. Persea are angiosperms, so they are hardwoods. There does not have to be an additional mention of this in the article. Some conifers are harder (Pinus elliotii var. densa) than many hardwoods because they evolved in areas with frequent cyclones/storms, and some hardwoods are soft because they evolved in such areas and benefited from fast growth. Persea, however, is both a hardwood and a genus that evolved around regular hurricane activity. It's safe to call it a hardwood species. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.108.118 (talk) 06:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Vitamin D in avocado[edit]

A topic that needs to be investigated further is whether avocado contains vitamin D. Some papers are specifically devoted to the presence of vitamin D in avocado and yet this is not a mainstream view. See for example (Zanobini A, Firenzuoli AM, Bianchi A, Isolation and Determination of vitamin-D in avocado (Persea-Gratissima); BOLLETTINO DELLA SOCIETA ITALIANA DI BIOLOGIA SPERIMENTALE, 50 (12): 887-891 1974. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.23.186 (talk) 23:49, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Shape and color[edit]

The first two sentences are a bit contradictory and incomplete:

1 - Shape: it says first that "the fruit (...) may be egg-shaped or spherical" and then that it is indeed "pear-shaped", as some of the common names imply. In my opinion the correct information is the second one but in any case the two informations are contradictory.

2 - Color: Avocados are not only "green-skinned" (second sentence), but also often eggplant-colored, as shown in the image on the right. Skin can also be smooth or rough.

I don't want to put my hands directly on the page. Could someone confirm and update it?

FlavioMR (talk) 15:16, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

This article is RACIST![edit]

This article is clearly geared toward the Mexican race/variety of the avocado, mostly leaving out the Guatemalan and West Indian races in several ways:

1. The average number of ripe avocados per tree, per year; the small Mexican race fruit grow in larger abundance than the large West Indian race fruit.

2. The exact origin of the avocado species as a whole is unknown, although presumed to be within present-day Mexico. The origin of the cultivated Mexican race can be traced to certain parts of Mexico, and that's all that gets shown in this article. Here's a source (http://www.avocadosource.com/CAS_Yearbooks/CAS_70_1986/CAS_1986_PG_127-133.pdf) if anyone's interested.

3. Nutritional value of Mexican-type avocados only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.108.118 (talk) 06:51, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Avocado pear "seed"[edit]

In my opinion, grass has seeds, apples have pips, and avocado pears have pits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.161.12 (talk) 05:29, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

A pit is just a type of seed. You could argue that "pit" is more precise, but that doesn't make "seed" incorrect. John Elson3DhamWF6I A.P.O.I. 13:26, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Medicinal Use?[edit]

High avocado intake was shown in one study to lower blood cholesterol levels. Specifically, after a seven-day diet rich in avocados, mild hypercholesterolemia patients showed a 17% decrease in total serum cholesterol levels. These subjects also showed a 22% decrease in both LDL (harmful cholesterol) and triglyceride levels and 11% increase in HDL (helpful cholesterol) levels.[31] Additionally a Japanese team synthesised the four chiral components, and identified (2R, 4R)-16-heptadecene-1, 2, 4-triol as a natural antibacterial component.[32]

Avocado fruits have potential mouth-anticancer activity due to a combination of specific aliphatic acetogenins.[33]

Extracts of P. americana have been traditionally used to treat hypertension and diabetes mellitus.[34]

While this information cites sources and certainly seems to belong in this article, it seems a little out of place under the heading of Nutritional value perhaps there should be a separate section for Medicinal use or this heading should be changed to Nutritional value/Medicinal Use?

John Elson3DhamWF6I A.P.O.I. 13:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Avocados in Japan[edit]

Avocado is not a traditional Japanese ingredient.

Is it really necessary, or even desirable to talk about that avocados are *not*? John Elson3DhamWF6I A.P.O.I. 20:41, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

I suspect that the person wrote that was saying that avocados not traditionally used in Japanese cuisine. Since avocados are native to the Americas, it's hard to see how they could be! I'm wondering though, is it being stated that avocados are not used today in authentic Japanese food, as eaten in Japan by the Japanese or simply that it was not used traditionally? Perhaps with some clarification and a few references the part talking about the use of avocados in Japanese based foods could be rewritten so as to avoid giving a false impression.

If it is just a matter of traditional Japanese Cuisine not containing avocados then there is no need to mention it, since that really goes without saying. The same could be said for Scandinavian dishes or German foods.

On the other hand, if Avocado is not used even occasionally in Japan in such dishes, which I highly doubt, then it would be worth mentioning. John Elson3DhamWF6I A.P.O.I. 04:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Avocado with cross section edit.jpg to appear as POTD soon[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Avocado with cross section edit.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on November 20, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-11-20. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 01:04, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Picture of the day
Avocado and cross-section

A ripe avocado fruit, with the cross-section of another. The fruit (botanically a large berry that contains a single seed) is commercially valuable, and is cultivated in tropical and Mediterranean climates throughout the world. Trees are partially self-pollinating and are often propagated through grafting to maintain a predictable quality and quantity of the fruit.

Photo: Muhammad Mahdi Karim
ArchiveMore featured pictures...


Leaves[edit]

My home grown avocado has leaves of 45cm allready (about 5 years old). It is grown from a fruit, that is unlikely to be genetically altered. The 25cm form the article might only be for some races. --Murata (talk) 13:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Different Types/Species of Avocados[edit]

Out of the blue the article mentions "Guatemalan type" avocados. Is that a different species? It should be defined in the article and written about as there are more species of avocado than just Persea americana23.16.152.103 (talk) 17:04, 27 August 2012 (UTC)BeeCier

#2 How-to be certain of avocado ripeness[edit]

This is my favourite fruit, if I could, I'd eat it year-round. I'm from Brazil, so our avocados most often go with other tropical fruits wherever we put them (if you don't know, putting fruits together to each other makes them ripen faster, and often rot; this is especially true for bananas) and the climate is pretty humid and/or hot (especially in kitchens, LOL), so they grow up that odd brownish parts that I used to call 'roots' inside the fruit or rot immediately if we don't watch out. As said before, one should never refrigerate an unripe avocado because it will seem to be unripe eternally.

Pressing gently is not really my kind of test for fruits because it can cause a significant damage even when done with care so that it may start to rot. Also, AFAIK fruits may be quite ripe in certain parts but not sufficiently so at others, and it is the case of avocados. When you see an avocado becoming almost entirely deep purple or black, start to shake it just close to your ear, preferentially your best one. Seriously. As it ripes, you will perceive the sounds the big seed does inside the fruit will change. When it sounds sufficiently vacant inside (you will start to know by practice), it is ripe. ^^

Unfortunately, I don't have any source. 177.40.150.110 (talk) 12:46, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Etymology2[edit]

The meaning of the Nahuatl word a:huacatl was and is avocado, the meaning "testicle" was/is secondary used as a euphemism - Karttunen lists it as an alternative meaning in her dictionary, not as a primary meaning. The Nahua word goes back to an original proto-Nahuan word *pawa-ka-ta, which also meant avocado (see Dakin 1982). The correct and general word for testicle in Nahuatl is xitetl, calling them ahuacatl is exactly like the common Spanish use of calling them huevos - a euphemism. Suggesting that the words original meaning was "testicle" is like suggesting that the original meaning of "wiener" was "penis". I've changed this part. Also there is no evidence i know of to suggest that the Aztecs considered it a "fertility fruit". This probably comes from some guidebook or cook book that invented it to make the fruit more interesting.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 02:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you have sources for this? I know "testicle" is given in the online etymology dictionary.[8] --AfadsBad (talk) 14:27, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
They are already in the article. The Spanish word "huevo" "egg" is also used to mean "testicle", but that does not mean that that is part of the word's etymology. The meaning testicle also appears in the dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy and they all get it from Karttunen's dictionary, and she includes it because that meaning is attested. But it is obviously metaphorical and does not go back to the proto-language. The suggestion that the word originally meant "testicle" and not "avocado" is not itself sourced, since Karttunen does not suggest that this meaning is primary rather than metaphorical. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:46, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
No, do you have sources for your statement that it is obviously metaphorical? --AfadsBad (talk) 15:10, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
No, but I don't need that because the claim that it is the original meaning is unsupported. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:19, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
So, the online etymology dictionary has it wrong? The sources in the article don't actually link to the sources. And you keep saying that it is obviously metaphorical, not that any source says it is, so it is hard to follow what the reasoning is. --AfadsBad (talk) 15:24, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Do you know a single example of an etymology in any language in the world where an edible object has been named after genitals and not vice versa. I don't. I do know of dozens where genitalia are euphemized by reference to food items. The online etymological dictionary is based on Karttunen who is simply stating that in classical nahuatl the word was used in both meanings. Obviously, judging from the fact that all other etyma containing "awaka" in Nahuatl refer to the avocado plant and not to testicles that shows us that avocado was indeed the primary meaning. So is the online etyomological dictionary wrong? It is correct in suggesting that in classical Nahuatl it may have meant both and that that has to do with the shape of the fruit being similar to testicles. But if it suggests that the testicle meaning was primary then yes it is wrong (I am not sure it does, I think it can be read both ways). Now is it OR to consider the feasibility of the different etymologies. Yes it is. But it is ok to use sound judgment and extra research to exclude information thought to be misleading, what is not OK is to include original research, which is why I am not adding to the article that it is metaphorical, but simply excluding the "testicle" piece of the etymology because it is both irrelevant and likely incorrect. I will be happy to write Frances Karttunen and ask her what her source is for the "testicle" meaning, and I will also proceed to write the etymoonline dictionary to ask them to clarify.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:42, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
What I know and don't know doesn't matter; what I can source is what goes in Wikipedia. This is an excellent policy; I am often surprised by how limited a person's knowledge can be without actual verification (my own being the example). I don't think it suggests the testicle meaning is primary, but I agree that it is not clear. I don't see evidence for the likelihood of it being incorrect. We won't be able to use anything you get from Karttunen, but a correction, if necessary to the online etymology dictionary, could be made, and then we could use that, and I would appreciate your efforts along these lines.
Let's leave the article as is (with your having undone the addition), and wait for a response. I have made corrections to the online etymology dictionary, and they are usually receptive and helpful and they will clear up information, even if it is only difficult, not just wrong. Thanks. --AfadsBad (talk) 15:52, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I agree with you, but would note that we can use information from personal communication with Karttunen to make an editorial decision about what goes in the article and what doesn't. The sourcing policy requires that everything we put in the article must be sourced, not that everything we can source goes in the article.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:00, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I disagree about the usefulness of a personal communication; if the information is not citable, it's not usable. But, this can sit as is until you get useful information to sort it out, and, if the online etymology dictionary is wrong, they will want to update it. --AfadsBad (talk) 16:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
It is a well established practice that is not discouraged in any policy I know of to use personal communication to clarify meaning, and to base editorial decisions on a good combination of personal knowledge, commonsense and judiciously critical reading of the sources. And in this case Karttunen might be able to point us towards her source for including the meaning "testicle" which is now so widely circulated. Meanwhile I have written the online etymology dictionary and we'll see what they say. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Personal communications are not usable as sources. Contacting her is fine, but it won't be usable as a source. --AfadsBad (talk) 17:27, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I have not proposed citing it as a source for any statement in the article (which is what is disallowed in the guideline you link to), but as a source of knowledge for an editorial decision which is something else, and which is allowed. I have received response from both Karttunen and the etymology dictionary and it should be settled shortly.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 02:05, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
The online etymological dictionary has now been updated and says: "1763, from Spanish avocado, altered (by folk etymology influence of earlier Spanish avocado "lawyer," from same Latin source as advocate (n.)) from earlier aguacate, from Nahuatl ahuakatl "avocado" (with a secondary meaning "testicle" probably based on resemblance), from proto-Nahuan *pawa "avocado." As a color-name, first attested 1945. The English corruption alligator (pear) is 1763, from Mexican Spanish alvacata, alligato.

"User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:43, 17 July 2013 (UTC) ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── This issue looks unresolved - the compromise update made by Maunus on 17 July has not persisted, and there is no citation for an original meaning of the word other than 'testicle'. Multiple times the word 'testicle' has been deleted from the etymology. Multiple times that deletion has been made by the same user[9][10] with an uncited claim in the edit summary on that second occasion that the meaning of the word is simply 'avocado'. The omission of any meaning of the Nahuatl word makes a nonsense of the first sentence on etymology - as has been noted in the Etymology (unnumbered) section above. Given that this has happened on multiple occasions, it would be good to clarify the etymology here, and possibly arbitrate if necessary. There are multiple citations for the meaning of testicle, including the Merriam-Webster dictonary owned (cough) by the Encyclopaedia Britannica[1][2][3] Frankly, the repeated deletion of the word appears, at casual inspection, to be an issue of prudishness. Nsw2042 (talk) 11:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Further, even if the etymology was fixed to make sense by stating that the Nahuatl word for avocado means avocado that resolution would be tautological, and it doesn't resolve other questions about the origins and/or other meanings of the Nahuatl word. Nsw2042 (talk) 11:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I am reverting. Your sources are not reliable for Nahuatl etymologies. I have provided several reliable source for the fact that its original meaning of the word in Nahuatl was not testicle, but that this was a subsequent metaphorical extension.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Please explain how etymonline.com is a more reliable source than the Merriam Webster dictionary and NPR. Here is the info page for the personal site, etymonline.com - it appears to be a specialist blog site [11] Nsw2042 (talk) 21:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Etymonline is the leading English etymology site, it is distinguished because it actually investigates etymologies and only gives the most uptodate information. Most online dictionaries, probably including Webster, relies on it. Webster simply repeats the claim based on a misreading of Karttunens dictionary, and NPR probably gets its "etymology" from Webster. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:02, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Also, the etymology section is now junk because it appears to be making the point that the Nahuatl use the word avocado to refer to testicles because testicles have the shape of avocados. The opposite of anthropomorphism. Nsw2042 (talk) 22:01, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
That is because that is what is the case, just like the reason we use wiener to refer to penis is because a penis resembles a sausage not the other way round, and just like Spanish speakers refer to testicles as eggs, but dont refer to eggs as testicles. It is a metaphorical euphemism. [User talk:Maunus|User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw·]] 23:02, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
If you read the discussion above you will realize that the entire "testicle" issue is based on people's reading of Karttunen's dictionary which gives the meaning "Avocado, testicle" for the Nahuatl word Ahuacatl. The meaning "testicle" is based on the fact that in some Nahuatl speaking towns they call testicles like this. She does not claim that this is an original meaning of the Nahuatl word. TO verify that she does not claim this I wrote her to ask, and she says that no, effectively she does not think that it was its original meaning but that in some Nahuatl communities it was extended to testicle through euphemistic metaphor. Furthermore Karen Dakin in her reconstruction of Nahuatl phonology traces the word to the root "pawa" meaning Avocado. That is as solid evidence as possible for an etyomology. There simply is no evidence whatsoever that testicle should have been part of the words original meaning.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
So where is this evidence documented in a way that can be verified? The bio page of the referenced website does not meet WP:VERIFY. In particular, given widespread reporting that the Nahuatl word means 'testicle', assertions to the contrary are clearly WP:EXCEPTIONAL Additionally, your revisions to the etymology section contain WP:ORIGINAL, "probably because of the likeness between the fruit and the bodypart" and a grammatical issue "which also mean "avocado"" Nsw2042 (talk) 01:56, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
"Wide spread reporting" means very little when they are demonstrably incorrect, as they are verifiably when looking at the best sources for Nahuatl etymology. Look at Dakin 1982 first where she gives the reconstruction. Look at any Nahuatl dictionary that doesnt draw on Karttunen (such as Molina, Simeon) they do not give the meaning testicle for this word. And if you dont believe my communication with Karttunen you can write her yourself (and yes personal communication with authors clarifying interpretations is allowed - althpough of course we cannot use it to source information we can use it to make editorial decisions about how to include or exclude specific information). The insertion does not contain original research since that is what etymonline is saying. Take etymonline to the reliable source noticeboard if you think it is problematic. If you are right that would mean we need to rewrite the etymology sections of a couple of thousand articles.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

A and B cultivars[edit]

The article makes a distinction between A and B cultivars, but does not say what that means, or links to information about it. A quick google search doesn't turn up anything relevant. Can someone who knows fill in the information? Bajsejohannes (talk) 21:30, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

It's a fruit[edit]

It's a fruit. Why do you keep claiming that it is a "vegetable"?? Eregli bob (talk) 13:18, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

This was apparently vandalism; the article has now been reverted to state that the avocado is a fruit. --McGeddon (talk) 13:21, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
First I am sorry for temporarily rolling back Eregli's edits to this talk page; it was a misclick which I reverted immediately. WRT the topic at hand, I am not sure whom you are referring to but I hope it's not me. Maybe we have both been trying to fix this page at the same time. I noticed that this edit changed all instances of "fruit" to "vegetable", even in the name of an image file which broke the image in addition to introducing factual errors into the content. I was trying to fix that and was getting serially reverted. The complicating factor is that there appeared to be some good edits mixed in and other vandalism immediately prior to the "big" change of fruit -> vegetable. For some reason every time I tried to go to the last good edit it wasn't going thru. Also the first time I think I misfired and did not go back far enough or something because the file name still looked broken. The version that is up now looks right but for some reason the "vegetable" version was up for at least 10 hours which is a long time for this frequently vandalized but normally well patrolled page. Anyway thank you to McGeddon who seems to have landed at a good revert. I would have answered this sooner but I am getting edit conflicts here too. Dusty|💬|You can help! 13:33, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


Vegetables don't grow on trees, but nuts sure do! John Elson3DhamWF6I A.P.O.I. 11:42, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

The leaves of Cnidoscolus aconitifolius are a vegetable that grow on a tree. Nuts are tree fruits/seeds with a high fat content, so maybe avocados ARE nuts? I'm not serious about calling them nuts, and am more inclined to call them a fruit then a vegetable, but the culinary vegetable category is pretty fuzzy, and plenty of people do call them vegetables (enough so that the California Avocado Comission feels they need to point out that avocados are fruits [12]). Unlike most culinary fruits, avocados aren't sweet. On the other hand, culinary fruits are often eaten raw, as are avocados. It's pretty silly to try to come up with a firm fruit vs. vegetable category for avocados. It'd be nice to find a good source that talks about fruit vs. vegetable issue for avocados. Plantdrew (talk)
This argument is fruitless. Talking about vegetables versus fruits is like comparing apples to oranges because "vegetable" is a (mostly) culinary term and "fruit" is a botanical term (especially as used here in this encyclopedia). From the vegetable page:

In culinary terms, a vegetable is an edible plant or its part, intended for cooking or eating raw. In biological terms, "vegetable" designates members of the plant kingdom.

The botanical definition of a berry is "a fleshy fruit produced from a single ovary". Whereas a nut

is a fruit composed of a hard shell and a seed, where the hard-shelled fruit does not open to release the seed[.]

So basically a nut is a type of fruit, a berry is also a type of fruit, an avocado is a berry and so also a fruit but not a nut, and a fruit is a type of vegetable. Gosh I'm getting hungry. Dusty|💬|You can help! 18:47, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Clarification re use of "metric ton"[edit]

The use of metric ton in Avocado#Avocado-related international trade issues is justified by the source which states "Jorge Fernandez, president of the Michoacan Avocado Producers Association, said that as a result of the complete opening of the U.S. market, Mexico is expected to send 180,000 metric tons (198,000 U.S. tons) of the fruit in the 2006-2007 season, up from 136,000 metric tons (150,000 U.S. tons) the previous year."[13]. Peter Horn User talk 19:18, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Of course, "U.S. ton" is synonymous with "short ton". Peter Horn User talk 19:51, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Origins?[edit]

The article says

"Persea americana, or the avocado, originated in the state of Puebla, Mexico."

and

"The oldest evidence of avocado use was found in a cave located in Coxcatlán, Puebla, Mexico, that dates to around 10,000 BC",

but http://www.avocadosource.com/CAS_Yearbooks/CAS_53_1969/CAS_1969_PG_059-060.pdf says

"The association of fossil avocado leaves with those of other tropical and subtropical species provides evidence that much warmer, more humid environmental conditions probably existed in that prehistoric period, the Pleiocene, estimated as 10 to 15 million years ago, compared with the moderately arid climate characteristic of the major portion of present day California."

Are we talking about the same plant here? Or even something closely related? --Guy Macon (talk) 02:55, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

(Sound of Crickets...) --Guy Macon (talk) 11:48, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
CHIRP. --16:24, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
No response, so I am going to remove the claim that appears to be contradicted by what appears to be a reliable source. If, as I suspect, suddenly other editors decide to discuss this, shame on you for not responding when I brought it up on the talk page. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:20, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

The article you site says that fossil leaves from avocados have been in California that date from 10 to 15 million years ago, and then goes on to state that the climate in the area that is now California must have been quite different than it is today. The implication is that wild variety avocados (or perhaps an ancestral species) would not have survived in the climate that California has today, so the climate in that area must have been more conducive to avocados. This also implies, correctly, that the species died out in California millions of years ago.

The statement that avocados were first used by humans in Mexico over 10 million years later has no connection with whether the species, or a closely related one, once lived in California.

This brings up a good question. What was your purpose in making this post, and the subsequent edit? Is this a test to see if people are paying attention?

As for why nobody said anything, it could be that they were only monitoring the main page and ignoring the talk page or they just dismissed your post as a random crackpot post , or an April fools joke posted a few days too soon. I for one had no idea you planned to remove an entire section based on an article that had nothing to do with the subject of the section, unless you are seriously suggesting that the fossil leaves are evidence that humans used avocados in what is now California over 10 million years ago!

In short, unless you come up with an argument that actually makes sense (assuming this isn't some kind of joke) then I'm going to put the section back where it belongs.

If you're trying to make the point that crackpot posts should not be ignored, no matter how faulty their logic, since they contain an implied threat of an inappropriate edit, then your point is well taken. I didn't just ignore the guy who suggested that the People's Temple article incorrectly stated that there was no video of the actual event (he thought that footage from a drama made two years later was from the actual event), so I shouldn't have ignored your posts either. John Alan ElsonWF6I A.P.O.I. 05:12, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

I suggest that you read the following pages, in order: WP:BRD, WP:AGF, WP:NPA, and WP:SIGLINK. The first link (WP:BRD tells you what to do if you disagree with an edit. The next two (WP:AGF and WP:NPA) tell you what not to do. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps I did over react a bit. That section referred to the present day form and human uses/cultivation but could be changed to acknowledge that ancestral forms may have been more widespread millions of years ago when the climate was different. John Alan ElsonWF6I A.P.O.I. 13:48, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Citing a Newsletter[edit]

Is there a better source for [7]'s claim that avocado-shaped indigenous pottery dates to 900 AD? It links to an online newsletter that cannot verify. Aguessartist 13 May 2014

  1. ^ {http://www.merriam-webster.com/top-ten-lists/top-10-words-with-remarkable-origins/avocado.html]
  2. ^ What's in a Name? The Avocado Story
  3. ^ [14]