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[edit] Copyediting request
Hello! I come here via a copyediting request that weas left on my talk page by User:Ink Runner. I'll be happy to copyedit this article. I will admit from the beginning that I have zero knowledge about Japanese singers or pop culutre, so I may be back to this talk page with questions if the prose is unclear. I'll start by doing a first pass through the article on paper, and will upload my changes section-by-section over the next couple days. Livitup (talk) 13:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- If it's alright, would you please fix the capitalisations of Ayumi Hamasaki's remix albums and remix album tracklists? (Here is the list of remix albums Ayumi_Hamasaki_discography#Remix_albums). I've already fixed a few. It's just that things like "RMX Works from Super Eurobeat presents Ayu-ro mix 3" should be "Rmx Works from Super Eurobeat Presents Ayu-ro Mix 3". It's because - not only are such album titles and track titles in incorrect English capitalisation - but also because they are a a direct violation of WP:NC policies. Thank you. Lily1104 (talk) 07:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Tildes to go
A number of the articles about Hamasaki should be retitled without tildes (or swung dashes), according to MoS-JA. That will take time. In the meantime, most if not all of the tildes in this article should go. I've made a start on this. Morenoodles (talk)
- Okay, I've removed the rest of the incorrect tildes in the body of the article. I'll get to work on the article names now. Ink Runner (talk) 20:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
- Well done! Morenoodles (talk) 09:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
[edit] External links
Although I do believe the rest of the article looks perfect (if anything, even better than that), I think after the list of references it tends to get a little messy and confusing. I was thinking that we should organize it so the extra links at the very bottom of the article can come up in neat little sections like Jay Chou's, but I only see four or five links at my time of writing this and due to lack of sleep, I really do not feel like investigating all of them... If someone could change the links to be more organized, it would be nice. Perhaps we should try adding more fan-built sites, like lyrics, photos, and music. That's what Chou has.
I also added the IMDB profile. Although it doesn't have much like the Western stars, no photos or anything, it provides a convenient list of movies she's been in and and forums. I was a bit skeptical about adding that one in at first, but I figured if Jay Chou had it, then we're good. ★Dasani★ 04:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, and I feel this talk page must be archived once again. This one contains twenty-one topics, while the previous ones only had half of that amount. However, I am afraid to touch article talk pages for fear of damaging them. I only know how to do user pages. ★Dasani★ 04:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Miscount: twenty-three, after my comment. Oh dear. Okay, I will just stop here. ★Dasani★ 04:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Don't look at me, I'd probably break something too. :P As to the external links, I think fansites are frowned upon. I mean, the floodgates would be opened once one or two good sites are put up. That might work for Jay Chou, who has (presumably) rational fans, but most J-pop fans are...erm...rabid. I do think that her lyrics are probably the most defining part of her artistry, so I translated some of her lyrics and put them on Wikiquote. I'll see to organizing the external links. Ink Runner (talk) 05:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I don't feel like opening up another topic to make it twenty-four, so I'm just gonna put this here.
- One of the lines in the childhood section sounds a bit repetitive: Her grades dropped as she refused to put her mind to her studies. While living in Tokyo, she attempted to further her studies at Horikoshi Gakuen, a high school for the arts, but dropped out in the first year. Hamasaki, without a job and school, spent much of her time shopping at Shibuya boutiques and dancing at Velfarre, an Avex-owned disco club. The word "dropped" is used twice: first when Hamasaki's grades tank, and second when she actually says adios to her high school. Is there a way we can change this? I tried to think of something, but the only two things I came up with were, "Her grades suffered" or somehow rewrite it so that it says her grades became "inadequate" instead... I do think the second one would not make much sense because it said she was a good student in middle school. ★Dasani★ 05:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, two "dropped"s look redundant, so I changed "dropped by her label" to "dismissed from her label". ...for lack of a better idea. Ink Runner (talk) 19:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
- I had finally succeeded in a change of pace by "worsened", which took place the other day. Woo... ★Dasani★ 06:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
- Oh thank you, a change of pace is just what the doctor ordered (I personally think that stable=boring)... Maybe I should expand the lead or see if I can find some sources with which to expand the artistry section. Or maybe someone should buy a microphone and create a spoken version of this article? Or maybe someone should do what you suggested and archive this darn page. Ink Runner (talk) 06:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
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- Well, I don't have a microphone (wouldn't be such a bad idea for me to get one, though). Maybe you should try that out?
- But before we actually get the mic and read up, we should try and read over the article to make sure we don't have any holes here or there. Imagine how embarrassing it'd be, "Ayumi was dating..." and then some lines later (or prior, I don't have a computerzied version of this article in my head despite all my time blown on it), "Uhh... sorry, I must stop now... I just noticed a spelling and grammatical error..." ★Dasani★ 21:47, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
- DONE... OH, yes. No more wading through twenty plus various topics, all concerning the "Queen of Japanese pop". ★Dasani★ 22:02, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Updating outdated parameters in citeweb templates
Yeah, the accessmonthday parameter is outdated, so now the citations that use the citeweb templates only show the access year. Does somebody know of a way to fix that automatically? (No way am I going to update all 100 or so instances.) I think there was a bot, MelonBot or something, that did such tasks, but I have no idea whatsoever on how to use bots. Heeelllp~ Ink Runner (talk) 03:23, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- WP:Bot requests looks like the right place to ask. TJRC (talk) 16:44, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks a lot. I can't believe I've been here for over a year and I still don't know how to work this thing. :P Ink Runner (talk) 18:44, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Pop or J-Pop?
I've been curious about this for awhile: I noticed that in the infobox, the section where it lists the various styles of music Hamasaki cranks out, only hints at "Pop". I do remember it was "J-Pop" at one point in this article's career. Ink Runner removed that. He explained in the edit summary provided, "Well, I think it's a bit racist to say it's Japanese pop." Right, but that's what she is known for. The way I see it, the current state of the genres of music is a bit too broad. We do this for other Japanese stars: Namie Amuro and Koda Kumi all have it, along with the other ones. Even the Chinese singers, like Jay Chou and Jolin Tsai, claim, "Mandopop" (and don't think I'm racist here; I'm a full Chinese female). So should we bring it back? ★Dasani★ 07:39, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- Er, well I didn't say it was racist or anything (or did I? I have the short-term memory of...something that has lousy short-term memory), just that J-pop isn't really a genre per se, it's a classification of music by a geographic location. I mean, genre is like the classification of music by it's sounds (like ethereal is like lots of flutes and synthesizers or whatever and house is a certain kind of beat), but J-pop can include ethereal and house and rock and whatnot. I mean, the template at the bottom of the J-pop page lists J-pop as by region instead of by style. Correct me if I'm wrong (translation: look up what genre actually entails because I'm too lazy XP) but...yeah. Haha. Ink Runner (talk) 08:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- If it counts, she also has a bunch of remixes and the like that are "trance", "techno", "house"... whatever. There's hundreds of them. But yeah, I understand what you're saying... I just found it strange because all the other celebrities went by "regional classifications", so to say, and then she was all cleaned up.
- By the way, sorry for the late response... my computer took a beating for almost a week (doesn't sound like a lot, but it's not easy to live without the internet for that long when you've reached a certain point of regular usage!). ★Dasani★ 22:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Renaming of "Foray into Asia"
24.132.58.125 brings up a good point, Hamasaki has (to some extent) moved beyond just Asia (Guilty was released in Western countries, "Rule" is the international theme for DBE), but I'm at a loss as to what the section should be named then. I'm leaning toward "International forays", but that's already used over at Hikaru Utada (plus she hasn't released any physical albums outside Asia). "Extra-Japanese forays" sounds too awkward, and "Aiming for a market outside Japan" is too long. Any suggestions? Ink Runner (talk) 21:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- "Beyond Japan," or some variation thereof. No reason to keep that funky word "foray" if it's getting in the way TJRC (talk) 22:42, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- I think the title should stay. Just because "Rule" is being used as the international theme for Dragonball Evolution doesn't mean anything. The director wanted a Japanese person to sing the theme song and he just happened to chose Ayumi. As for Guilty, I didn't hear anything about it being released in the west. Moon and Sunrise 00:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well, it was digitally (through iTunes and that stuff). But you're right, a movie tie-in probably doesn't warrant a rename. Ink Runner (talk) 00:41, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- But it's not particularly tied to Asia, either; so a discussion of Rule in "Foray into Asia" seems inapt. TJRC (talk) 01:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- You're right too: her forays aren't exactly "international" yet, but they're not just limited to Asia...but I don't know how to phrase it. Ink Runner (talk) 02:06, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- "[Eminence|Success|Market penetration] beyond Japan"? The more I see of "foray," the less I like it. As a technical term, it connotes an attack of some sort. As a non-technical term, it's a mild parody of one, like a "foray to the refrigerator for a snack." My apologies, if the introduction of "foray" was part of the very fine work you've done on this article. TJRC (talk) 02:15, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- "Foray" does sound kind of pretentious/doesn't have exactly the right connotation, so I was hesitant to use that term at first, but "Eminence"/"Success" might sound kind of POV since her extra-Japanese sales in Asia aren't easily measured, plus she was already enjoying popularity in Hong Kong and Singapore as early as 2001~2002. Of the Asian countries in which she enjoys the most popularity, only Taiwan has music charts [that I know of] that aren't published by a retailer or some commercial operation. And even then, they don't publish yearly charts and don't give the exact sales figures, so it's hard to gauge whether her extra-Japanese sales have been increasing that much. (Her last albums released during her "foray into Asia" period have topped the weekly charts, but then, so have her albums released before then.) I wanted to say "Moving beyond Japan", but that's kind of vague. So "market penetration" looks like the best choice, but I was wondering if there were a word in English that sums up the idea of "entering [the market]" like "foray" does. Ink Runner (talk) 02:59, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- How about something like "Reaching Beyond Japan", or "Influence Beyond Japan"? 'Market penetration' really doesn't portray the right feeling for Ayumi's rise in popularity beyond Japan. keikeiaznqueen (talk) 23:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
- Works for me. TJRC (talk) 23:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Hamasaki Ayumi's Achievements & History: Revision
As a suggestion, can we have some collaborative assistance to revise Hamasaki's history to remove redundant information and provide a better, more organized account of Hamasaki Ayumi's achievements within Japanese music and culture? Many of the sections could use revision to provide for a more concise and direct detail of her influences, career, and success. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.36.40 (talk) 04:37, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
- This article is already an FA and has gone through four major revisions (check the template at the top of this talk page for further proof) in order to become what you currently have in front of you. This isn't the right place to judge, but I thought Jay Chou was way worse (he became an FA a few months before Hamasaki did). You can read the entire lengthy article, and it doesn't leave you with a strong impression of what Chou did as a singer. I'm not sure I approve of that one, either.
- But in any case, feel free to edit this article and do a major hauling of new content. Just so long as it's properly sourced. ★Dasani★ 20:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- Even featured articles can start rotting. See Wikipedia:Defending_article_quality#Featured_articles. Eugeniu Bmsg 22:09, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
- I try to keep the article abreast of the newest FAs (there aren't too many music biographies that became FA'ed in 2009, and as the standards seem to be getting higher all the time, I'm wary of using, let's say, Celine Dion, which was FA'ed in '06.) Usually, keeping a (recent) FA up to snuff means doing minor things like making sure the sources with links don't go dead, the new content is encyclopedic, etc., but occasionally, when I find new sources, I make a major addition. I do think the article could use a prose face-lift (my writing has improved—or so I like to think—since this article became an FA) and I think I'd use Big Star as a reference. The only problem is that this article relies so heavily on non-English sources, so translating/finding translations takes a lot of time, which I don't have as much of as before. Especially since I'd like to work on other articles, major changes to this article won't be too many. If anyone else wants to make major additions, I could help with ce and stuff. Now I'm rambling lol. Ink Runner (talk) 03:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
