Talk:Bắc Kạn Province

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Literal meaning[edit]

Article needs literal meaning of province name, and Han Tu. Badagnani 07:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Should it be 𣴓 () instead ? Bắc Kạn and the hantu 北乾 does not match. - Hello World! 07:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The k used in front of the second syllable is a non-standard spelling (k is only used in front of i, e, ê, and y) and suggests a non-Chinese etymology. DHN 16:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Interesting! I had assumed since it was up north, near Hanoi, it would have a Sino-Vietnamese etymology. If it's non-Chinese and non-Viet, I wonder what language it might have come from. One of the northern highland minorities? Do you have access to reference materials that give the etymologies of the province names? Can Bắc still mean "northern"? Badagnani 17:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

This province was created in 1997. I would guess that the name is a Sino-Tay compound since there are many Tay people there. Most ethnic minorities in Vietnam reside in the provinces north of Hanoi (near the Sino-Vietnamese border) and in the central highlands. DHN 17:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The Nom Foundation gives . Badagnani (talk) 04:12, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: blanking of 28 December 2007[edit]

It's useful and helpful to use "Discussion," which is active and ongoing, before blanking, thanks. The characters under discussion are not "Chinese," but in fact Vietnamese. A number of toponyms (including current, new province names) were already in use, and rendered in Han tu/Chu nom before the abandonment of Han tu/Chu nom by most Vietnamese. Thus, their etymology is not irrelevant and provides an irreplaceable resource. The characters supplied above (not the ones that were in the article) were sent by a specialist Han tu/Chu nom researcher in Vietnam. Badagnani (talk) 19:32, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought the primary reason to provide names in their native format is to help researchers find information about them in primary source documents. What's the purpose of Chinese (or pseudo-Chinese) characters in an article about a province created 10 years ago?! DHN (talk) 19:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

As stated above, the characters under discussion are not "Chinese," but in fact Vietnamese, this system of writing (as you know) having been in use for well over 1,000 years. As mentioned earlier, number of toponyms (including current, new province names) were already in use--for towns, cities, or regions in the same area having that name--and rendered in Han tu/Chu nom in official Vietnamese sources before the abandonment of Han tu/Chu nom by most Vietnamese. Thus, their etymology is not irrelevant and provides an irreplaceable resource. If no Han tu for this toponym were ever used, I don't see how the researcher would have found these characters. In the case of these few names that are unclear, I will ask the researcher (Mr. Cuong) for further clarification about the source of this information. Badagnani (talk) 19:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The Han Tu characters are useful from a historical perspective, they are included for some provinces but not for others. I suggest including for all. Please note the introduction does not make sense. What did Ho Chi Minh do? Hvaltonen (talk) 06:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

History[edit]

Need history of this province, and details of its creation. Did the place name Bắc Kạn exist before the province's official creation? Badagnani (talk) 19:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)