Talk:Babe Ruth

Name

Where is his birth name? He was born as Georg Hermann Erhardt.

Baby Ruth candy bar controversy

There is conflict of information regarding the number of years expired between the death of Ruth Cleveland and the introduction of the candy bar Baby Ruth. This article claims it was 15 years, however upon checking with both "Ruth Cleveland" and "Baby Ruth" sections, both provide information that it was actually 17 years. "Ruth Cleveland" death: 1904 "Babe Ruth" candy bar introduction: 1921 1921 - 1904 = 17

Steph6n (talk) 04:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Steve

Nicknames

Should we source the several nicknames in the article lede? Some are well know (Sultan of Swat, the Bambino) but others are more obscure and probably only popularly used during Ruth's playing days.Wkharrisjr (talk) 18:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Not enough info about his pitching

There's at least one area that describes what Ruth did statsitically and I was wondering if i could add some of his pitching statistics. He has some good pitching numbers here then 71.105.87.54 (talk) 06:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC) Trey was here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.13.207 (talk) 18:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC) babe ruth was wary stupid at the time

i disagree

and why is there nothing about his shared No-Hitter, he was only responsible for a single batter, a walk, and then got ejected for arguing balls and strikes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.38.130.195 (talk) 09:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Ococeanguy, 1 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

Please change his birthplace from "Pigtown" to "Ridgely's Delight". 216 Emory St. is the birthplace and museum, but it is in the Ridgely's Delight area of Baltimore, not nearby Pigtown. The Ridgely's Delight wikipedia page correctly identifies itself as the birthplace of Babe Ruth.

Thanks

Per your request for a source: http://www.usatoday.com/mchat/20010418004/tscript.htm http://www.livebaltimore.com/neighborhoods/list/downtown/ http://www.ridgelysdelight.org/neighborhood.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ococeanguy (talk • contribs) 21:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

One more from the Baltimore Sun: http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/real-estate/bal-re.insider17feb17,0,6948301.story —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ococeanguy (talk • contribs) 22:21, 4 August 2010 (UTC) Ococeanguy (talk) 03:26, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --ANowlin: talk 03:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

The Elephant in the Room: Ruth's Features uggest some African lineage

Was Babe Ruth part African-American? His full lips, wide nose, and olive complexion are familiar hallmarks of mixed African lineage. Throughout the 19th and 20th century, it was not uncommon for exceptionally fair skinned blacks to "pass" (i.e., claim to be of pure European ancestry) as East Europeans, Italians, or Hispanics. There is documentation that some white businessmen aided such individuals in passing if the person of mixed race possessed an extraordinary athletic ability or other talent. As a result, many blacks played major league baseball by claiming to be Cuban prior to Jackie Robinson’s entrance. Hence, there is a plausible argument that Ruth was a gifted mulatto who concealed part of his ethnicity.

Further, there are substantiated accounts of Ruth frequenting black women in Harlem during his years with the Yankees. Even though an affinity for black women is not an indicator of ethnicity, it is worth noting in light of other facts.

While it is unlikely that we will answer the question of Ruth's genetic pedigree, any description of his race deserves an asterisk.

The Elephant in the Room: Ruth's Features Suggest Some African Lineage

Was Babe Ruth part African-American? His full lips, wide nose, and olive complexion are familiar hallmarks of mixed African lineage. Throughout the 19th and 20th century, it was not uncommon for exceptionally fair skinned blacks to "pass" (i.e., claim to be of pure European ancestry) as East Europeans, Italians, or Hispanics. There is documentation that some white businessmen aided such individuals in passing if the person of mixed race possessed an extraordinary athletic ability or other talent. As a result, many blacks played major league baseball by claiming to be Cuban prior to Jackie Robinson’s entrance. Hence, there is a plausible argument that Ruth was a gifted mulatto who concealed part of his ethnicity.

Further, there are substantiated accounts of Ruth frequenting black women in Harlem during his years with the Yankees. Even though an affinity for black women is not an indicator of ethnicity, it is worth noting in light of other facts.

While it is unlikely that we will answer the question of Ruth's genetic pedigree, any description of his race deserves an asterisk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tremaineross (talk • contribs) 09:20, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

He was of German extraction. He looked similar to his father. Read one of the biographies of Ruth and you'll get more info on this and you'll learn why there's no need for an "asterisk". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

@ Baseball Bugs: Do you believe that his biographies tell the whole story? Also, please look at his photos again. Have you ever seen a German with those features? I don't think the question of his racial makeup can be easily answered by any biography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.43.216 (talk) 21:28, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I have see Germans that look kind of like that. Not all "white" people are snow-white. And the modern biographies don't shy away from discussing some of the stuff he was called by his acquaintances that implied he was black. But if there was even a clue that actually he had "Negro" blood somewhere in his background, he would never have been allowed to play professional baseball. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:20, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Since Swat is a place in Pakistan, he is more likely to be Asian in origin, but of course that's just a nickname. Most people of mixed race origin are proud of their origin. It's no good saying "he covered it up because he was ashamed" the whole family had to cover it up. Without any other evidence apart from his physical features, you just have to assume he was white. Maybe he had black ancestry four or five generations back, but that doesn't make someone black.

"The Sultan of Swat". Right. Or "The Bambino" suggesting he was Italian. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:21, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And both "Babe" and "Ruth" suggest possible female gender. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

"Babe" was a common nickname for men in those days. In addition to a number of ballplayers, some of whom preceded Ruth on the scene, there was Oliver "Babe" Hardy and Jerry "Babe" Horwitz, better know to the public as "Curly Howard". Typically it was applied either ironically, to large men, or to young men (as in Ruth's case). His real name, of course, was George Herman Ruth, and he was George to his pals. "Babe" was a newspaper nickname - as with "Curly". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:41, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

@ Baseball Bugs "But if there was even a clue that actually he had "Negro" blood somewhere in his background, he would never have been allowed to play professional baseball." Baseball Bugs, it happpened. However, don't take my word for it, look it up if you're interested. There is plenty of information available regarding the topic of mixed race baseball players "passing" as whites and hispanics.

@ Wolfowitz I agree. He could have been mixed with a number of ethnic groups. However, blacks have long made up a large part of the Baltimore area (i.e., his place of birth) and there has been "mixing" between white men and black/bi-racial women for a long time.

Also, race is simply a social invention (i.e., biologically there is only one race: the human race). Still, when we describe race, what we're essentially describing are the person's features (e.g., skin tone, nose/lips, hair type). We may try to justify it by associating a person of a certain race with a specific culture but that argument fails. Irrespective of cultural manifestations, we always refer back to features. For example, no matter how Eminem speaks, dresses, or behaves, (i.e., regardless of his culture) he will probably never convince you that he's actually an African-American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.41.202 (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

And if you had only heard but never seen Charlie Pride, you might have thought he was white. :) What you need to do is read some bios of Ruth and see what they have to say about his racial background and his seemingly African-based features. A good recent one that should still be in print is The Big Bam by Leigh Montville. FYI, "Bam" was a nickname often used by his teammates, a play on "Bambino" along with his monstrous slugging ability. A lot of black Americans liked Ruth, not just because of his generally being a popular, larger-than-life character, but also because of the rumors (or wishful thinking) about him having some "black blood", and also because he was a man with no apparent racial prejudices who often played in white-vs.-black exhibition games (for which he sometimes was criticized). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Will do Bugs. However, right now I'm working on the Complete Sherlock Holmes Volume I. Needless to say, it's going to be a while before I can get to it. Thanks for the conversation; it's been fun.--TR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.43.216 (talk) 03:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I think this whole line of inquiry is a monumental waste of time, and has no real bearing on the topic. IMHO. Mark Sublette (talk) 07:40, 11 August 2010 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette (talk) 07:40, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you're unaware that his colleagues in the reform school dubbed him "N*gg*r Lips". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:39, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Here is an article from Sports Illustrated on the topic: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1022447/index.htm#ixzz1IlTbCPGm Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune has also discussed this. DFS (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Interesting perspective. Ruth was held in high esteem by kids of all races, and had no particular racist attitudes (contrasting with Cobb and many others of that era). The rumors about possible black ancestry I'm sure didn't hurt his esteem with the black kids. And if it turned out that Ruth indeed had some black in his family tree (though I very much doubt it), it would be the ultimate joke on the baseball segregationists. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:30, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Babe Ruth Early Years Edit needed

{{editsemiprotected}} Please change- "Ruth was born at 216 Emory Street in Pigtown, a rough neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland"

in the Early Years section to -

"Ruth was born at 216 Emory Street in Ridgely's Delight, a rough neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland"

216 Emory Street is located East of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard in Ridgely's Delight. This can be verified by viewing the Pigtown, Maryland page and seeing that it states Pigtown's eastern border is MLK Blvd and Ridgely's Delight's western border is MLK Blvd. Therefor, if 216 Emory Street (which is verified to be Babe Ruth's birthplace) is East of the MLK, it would be located in Ridgely's Delight.

199.173.225.33 (talk) 17:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.
Before any change can be made, the claim of which neighborhood 216 Emory Street is actually in (Pigtown or Ridgely's Delight) must be supported by a provided/referenced source. Personally, it should be remembered MLK Blvd is a modern invention and did not exist at the time these neighborhoods' names/designations came into being.

Shearonink (talk) 23:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Here is Ridgely's Delight's historical paperwork submitted on 9/3/1979 and approved on 2/6/1980 to the National Register of Historic Places managed by the National Park Service, U.S. Department of the Interior.(www.nps.gov) In this document you will find that the street borders are Pratt St to the North, Freemont Ave (now MLK Blvd) to the West, Russell St to the East, and Conway St to the South. The only exception is a single block in the North-East corner that is entirely occupied by a modern power station. This district is the namesake of a prominent property owner from the turn of the 19th century named Charles Ridgely. The layout of the streets today are similar to the the layout from a map of the city from 1823. So, if the Ridgeley's Delight district has been named and is in a similar physical state since the turn of the 19th century and Babe Ruth's birthplace (216 Emory Street) is located within this district, it should demonstrate proficiently that Babe Ruth (born after the turn of the 19th century) was born in what was and is still considered Ridgely's Delight. All supporting claims for this are located in the federally reviewed and accepted bibliographical references section in the district's approved request to be considered a nationally recognized historic district. http://www.ridgelysdelight.org/rd1.PDF

p.s. You are correct in the MLK Blvd is a modern invention but in most cases it simply replaced an existing street. As in this case where MLK Blvd has replaced the area of Freemont Street which has now been made into a smaller, one-way alley style street. Though the name of the divisional landmark street has changed, The area of MLK Blvd is the historical marker of the western edge of Ridgely's Delight's historical district. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.240.218 (talk) 17:57, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Title Addition/Modification request: "The (Great) Bambino"

I mean, seriously... Who wouldn't recognize this? Simply requesting (Great) added into the title at the beginning of the page in the introductory sentence. He was often referred to as ″The Great Bambino‘’, even later in this article. Gemquist (talk) 00:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

More often just "The Bambino". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:36, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem

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Career batting statistics error

There is an error in the Career batting statistics section. "2nd on all-time slugging % with 0.690" should be 1st or "1st on all-time slugging % with 0.690"

ref: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/slugging_perc_career.shtml

or just about anywhere else you'd like to research it at. lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.3.81.34 (talk) 07:56, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Birth Date

Has there been any controversy about this? If not controversy, then maybe a slight debate. Since I have an account, I decided to look up Ruth on ancestry.com. While on his WWII registration he does list his birthday as Feb 6, 1895, but for WWI, he listed it as Feb 7, 1894. He also puts the 1894 birth on a passport application. The 1900 Census favors the 1895 birth, but in 1930, his age is listed as 36, or 1894. richjenkins 22:02, 10 Feb 2011 (UTC)

At least one of the biography books I've seen says that Ruth thought he was a year older than he was, until discovering the true birthdate, late in his career. Anyway, there's no controversy about it. But it might be worth pointing out in the article, if it isn't already. I could look for a source when I have time, which I don't at the moment. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Good enough for me. I've seen enough examples of that (from his era) so I don't doubt that's true. richjenkins 19:00, 31 Mar 2011 (UTC)

Inflation calculation correction

In the section detailing Ruth's purchase by New York and his salary demands increased to 20,000, which would be 250,000 today and not the 220,000 reported in the article!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.24.148.8 (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistencies in his ranking in the 1999 ESPN Sports Century: Top 50 Athletes of the 20th Century

In the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SportsCentury he is listed as second behind Jordan yet in this article "Babe Ruth" he is said to have come third behind Ali and Jordan

217.42.60.174 (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistencies in his ranking in the 1999 ESPN Sports Century: Top 50 Athletes of the 20th Century

In the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SportsCentury he is listed as second behind Jordan yet in this article "Babe Ruth" he is said to have come third behind Ali and Jordan

217.42.60.174 (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Contractions in article

In the section titled Boston Braves (1935), there are contractions that need to be changed. In the 3rd paragraph, change the "couldn't afford the rent on Braves Field" to "could not afford the rent".

In the last paragraph of the same section, "but Fuchs persuaded him to stay on because the Braves hadn't played in every National League park yet." should be changed to "because the Braves had not played".

Thanks. 75.241.146.96 (talk) 13:57, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Y Done -- John of Reading (talk) 17:17, 27 December 2011 (UTC)