Talk:Backmasking

Two issues here that could be confused.

On the one hand, a sound track or portion of one can be reversed and inserted into (or substiuted for) all or a portion of a recording deliberately for various reasons (e.g. as a promotional gimmick [if you think rock muscians capable of such a ploy]) for desired effects, which is, as I understand it, called "backmasking", a word whose meaning, BTW, is unclear to the uninitiated and which, seems to me, to suggest something more than the simple prosaic truth of the matter. Apparently the idea of playing a recording backwards occured to Thomas Edison; so much for later generations claims to innovation and discovery.

On the other hand, some sounds in some recordings when played backwards, sound, or seem to sound, like something meaningful, i.e. as word fragments, words, or short phrases, which might then be misconstrued as, or wrongly imputed to be, examples of backmasking. The one effect is deliberate, the other, accident combined with wishful thinking, a little imagination, or expectation.

When I was growing up, I heard the usual scuttlebutt (popular rumors and urban legends) about both effects, and never took any of it to be of any real significance; although, I can imagine members of the illiterate general public getting quite worked-up about this, and for that matter some, even, who ought to know better , e.g. our legislatures folks (we sure can pick 'em).

Refimprove template

User:Morenooso added {{Refimprove}} at the top of the article with the rationale, Rv: Unsourced edits; added: Refimprove tag (as unsourced edits continue). I assume he added the tag because it contains the words, "Unsourced material may be challenged and removed." However, its main point is to indicate that "This article needs additional citations for verification.", for which reason I don't think it should be at the top of this article. Instead, I changed the list so that each of the artists on it has a reference. This should, in addition to the preexisting <!-- This sentence is not for listing all artists who have been accused. It should only be used for well-known controversies involving notable artists. -->, make it obvious that references are needed. Morenooso reverted me.

Morenooso and don't seem to be coming to an agreement, so others' inputs would be appreciated. Λυδαcιτγ 04:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

This editor has a deep sense of WP:OWN with this article. Unsourced edits take place and the Refimprove tag requires sourcing. --Morenooso (talk) 04:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, not very many WP:V and WP:RS sources exist for additions being made. --Morenooso (talk) 04:26, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

As I understand it from the linked diffs, this dispute is over whether or not various notable musical artists mentioned in 'Blecha 50' as having been accused of backmasking should have had that cite removed and {{refimprove}} added. Is this correct?

To other 3O Wikipedians: The above comment is seeking clarification only, and should not be taken to mean that I have 'claimed' this dispute. Please feel free to opine. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 02:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

No, it's more about non-referenced edits being made to this article. The tag's instructions specifically says, Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. --Morenooso (talk) 03:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, Morenooso (talk · contribs). However, both diffs Audacity (talk · contribs) linked include a cited source, qualifying them as referenced. Or are you (Morenooso) challenging the source's reliability? --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 03:16, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

If you're looking at just one DIFF, then yes BOTH editors actually got it wrong. Audicity should have posted his cites in one post and chosen to remove the Refimprove tag in another. He did a revert of my maintenance tag post. Then, I should have just re-established the tag without disturbing the cites. I did not notice this until I just looked at what you said in the post above this one by me. Now, if you look long-term history of this article, numerous anonymous IPs make edits that are not cited or verifiable. --Morenooso (talk) 03:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I had noticed the issues anon IPs have been introducing, and will be filing for semi-protection to stop those. Do you have any other problems with the article, Morenooso (talk · contribs)? --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 03:30, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Other than Audicity has a sense of ownership about the article, no. --Morenooso (talk) 03:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

In that case, I'll merge the two diffs {{user|Audacity]] cited together with the {{refimprove}} template. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 03:39, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. What's your TO? --Morenooso (talk) 03:44, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

My whowhatnow? --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 03:49, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Your edits lead me to believe you render Third Opinions. Are you going to make one? --Morenooso (talk) 03:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah. No, I don't think one is necessary in this case, as the dispute seems to have simply been a result of miscommunication between you and Audacity (talk · contribs), not one over actual content. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 03:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

And by your combined edit, I take it you feel the tag should remain. Correct? --Morenooso (talk) 03:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, at the very least I felt it should remain as a placeholder while I watched a couple of anime episodes. Now they're finished, I'm going to add the {{Citation needed}} in a couple of places I think need it. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 04:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Knock yourself out. Anime? I'm watching MTV. --Morenooso (talk) 04:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Revolver?

"The Beatles, who used backward vocals and instrumentation on their 1966 album Revolver."

Refresh my memory. Yes, there backward guitar bits in "I'm Only Sleeping", but where on the album is there backward vocals? There are a few Beatle songs that have backward vocals ("Rain", "I'm So Tired", etc.), but where on Revolver is there backward vocal tracks? Yes, "Rain" was recorded during the Revolver sessions, but it was released separately. Kingturtle = (talk) 14:11, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

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