Talk:Bandwidth (computing)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus on new destination, if any. JPG-GR (talk) 05:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Bandwidth (computing) → Bandwidth (digital) — The current name for this article is not broad enough. Digital bandwidth is also widely used in telecommunications, since much of it is now digital. The misnamed article is confusing the editors who are busy disambiguating links to Bandwidth. I've seen several links to Bandwidth (signal processing) that should have pointed here. —Srleffler (talk) 00:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I am doing a lot of the disambiguation, so I thought I should ask which instances there is disagreement about in my choice for the bit rate sense (computing/digital) and the frequency range sense (analog/signal processing). I hoped I was doing more good than harm, but if I am causing consternation, I want to work together to come to a consensus. CosineKitty (talk) 00:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

You're definitely doing more good than harm. If there are any you're not sure about, feel free to leave a note on my talk page and I'll see if they are clearer to me.--Srleffler (talk) 00:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose. In textbooks on digital communications, digital electronics, digital wireless communications, etc, bandwidth would be measured in Hertz. Measuring bandwidth in bps is only common in books on computing and computer networking, and perhaps some books on modern telecommunications, not dealing with electrical engineering aspects. The term "digital bandwidth" is not very common, but I like it. It is mainly only occuring in a few books about computer networking, for exampel Data Communications and Networking By Behrouz A. Forouzan, section "Digital versus analog bandwidth". Mange01 (talk) 02:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Hi. It is usually a noun, not an adjective, that is used in parentheses. WP:DAB says the word in parentheses should be "the subject or context to which the topic applies". It also says "Rarely, an adjective describing the topic can be used, but it is usually better to rephrase the title to avoid parentheses." Would Digital bandwidth be better? or Bandwidth (digital communications)? Sam (talk) 20:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The original suggestion was based on the assertion that computing was too restrictive, and thus was confusing people into disambiguating links improperly. I was doing a lot of this disambiguation, and there has been one case where I definitely did make a mistake. But it was not because I didn't understand the difference between signal processing and computing. Another reason offered for the article move is that computing is too restrictive, because transmitting bits of data over a fiber optic line is not necessarily computing, but it is digital. It is also digital communications, but digital bandwidth also applies to, say, transferring data on a bus between memory and CPU, which is closer to computing than communications. With this in mind, maybe something like Bandwidth (data transfer) or Bandwidth (bit rate) would make sense? There are many other possibilities where we could follow the convention and make it a generic enough noun, and still distinguish this sense of the word from the range-of-frequencies sense. CosineKitty (talk) 22:17, 24 June 2008

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Error in Definition

I noticed an error on this page in regards to the description in the Bandwidth disambiguation page. According to the Bandwidth list, "Bandwidth (computing): a rate of data transfer, or bit rate, measured in bits per second". However, on this page it is noted, "It should also be distinguished from "data transfer", which is the quantity of data transferred over a given period of time." If this bandwidth is a rate of data transfer in bits per second, then the line in the article saying that bandwidth should be distinguished from data transfer is inaccurate, or misleading.

THIS ARTICLE IS WRONG!!!

Bandwidth is commonly used to refer to bit rate in computing, but this is technically WRONG! Bandwidth is the size of the frequency range used for a signal and THAT'S IT. This article reads as though the technical definition of "bandwidth" is different when used in the context of computing. Textbooks refer to bit rate or throughput, because THESE ARE TECHNICALLY THE CORRECT TERMS AND BANDWIDTH ISN'T!!! More wikipedia ignorance spreading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.225.18.170 (talk) 02:31, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't like the sloppy use of the bandwidth term, but it does not matter what you or I like, this is how it is used since at least 20 year ago. Also as engineers, we must sometimes accept language filled with abstract metaphores. If we have objections, we should contact the textbook authors; don't blame Wikipedia. Wikipedia must reflect established standards in textbooks and other authorative sources.

I have now added sources from five famous textbooks used in computer network university classes all over the world. I would be happy if you could find a single counter example - a textbook in Computer networking that never measures bandwidth in bit/s. In telecom, electronics and wireless communications however, bandwidth is typically still measured in Hertz.

The article is indeed wrong. For example how can one then explain 'Spectral Efficiency', which is used as a measure of the bit-rate that can be transmitted over a given bandwidth, with units of 'bits/s per Hertz', or (bit/s)/Hz, or usually bits/s/Hz. Wikipedia can explain that IT people erroneously/colloquailly (and confusingly for the learner) refer to bit-rate as bandwidth, but it's an informal use of the word. From a consumer's point of view, if they install more (similar) communication lines from the supplier, then they are in a sense getting more data through (more bit-rate) and in a sense "putting in more bandwidth" (but NOT PER line...and each line will use the same part of the frequency spectum - the same band of frequencies). Now, they are just getting more in the way they would get more refrigeration capacity if they bought more fridges, and if they wanted that large refrigeration capacity all in one big fridge, then the fridgeration-system design would be quite different, and to explain the design of the latter one would use fundamental scientific/engineering concepts, and one should also do that when explaining bandwidth and bit-rate. Look at (Hartley-) Shannon's Capacity Theorem, and look at its limits as the bandwidth tends to infinity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.113.57.161 (talk) 19:01, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Theoretical "Perfect" Bandwidth

I imagine there might be a theoretical bandwidth which would provide the perfect digital media and communications experience for a single domestic or small business user. This could be described as a perfect point beyond which any further bandwidth would be superfluous. An account of bandwidth seems as incomplete without a definintion of this perfect point, as an account of geography might be without a mention of the size and circumferance of the Earth. Has anyone calculated the point at which all the dreams of a internet user might be acheived ? Collateral to this would be a timeframe when this might be acheived in developed countries and finally for the whole world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.64.189.193 (talk) 21:04, 19 September 2011 (UTC)