Talk:Battle of Ball's Bluff

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March 19 edits[edit]

Text and box casualty numbers do not match. I have Fed: 46killed, 198wounded, 529captured/missing, 100+ drowned; Conf: 36k, 117w in one source - Fed:49k, 158w, 533c, 100+ drowned; Conf: 36k, 117w, 2c in the Winkler book - and Fed: 49k, 158w, 714 c/m; Conf: 33k, 115w, 1m in the Eicher work. Any consensus out there? The last para of the 'Battle' section has other numbers and a cite, plus an added statement that needs citing. Kresock (talk) 00:46, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't have the figures, but you can cite approximates and then list the discrepancies in the footnotes. In the meantime, do you have the correct Eicher title in the Refs? Hal Jespersen (talk) 14:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm rereading Jim Morgan's book, and I don't see any final numbers. I'll see if he might shine some definitive sourcing light for us. BusterD (talk) 15:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Morgan does specify 553 Union prisoners (p. 178). BusterD (talk) 15:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Got a quick reply to an email from Jim. His best source is from Vol VII, Table XXXVIII of The Medical and Surgical History of the Civil War. US: KIA 223, WIA 226, Missing 445. CS: KIA 36, WIA 264, Missing 2. He differs from the chart in one specific: he can account for 3 CS missing by name. In Morgan's book (p. 183) he discusses why the 49 Union dead figure is incorrect. He estimates (p. 184) "the Union death toll at Ball's Bluff approached 250." I'm guessing there's overlap between the 226 wounded and the 553 prisoners. BusterD (talk) 16:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Corrected the ref, thanks for catching that Hal! Adding in 100 or so drowned (listed separately because not direct combat deaths?) still doesn't get us to 250 Federals dead, so the idea of the overlapping/overcounting just might be. I've seen big ol' tables that list casualties from several sources on some of the battle pages, but I am also leaning toward just dealing with it in the notes. The numbers I gave are from a 2001 book, a 2008 book, and the Eicher one from 2001; that being said, I would give more credence to any work that can offer up three Confederates (by name no less) when my believing Conf. estimates almost anywhere is a true leap of faith to me. The casualties in this battle are overshadowed by the ramifications due to it anyway. Can the identified burial statement be cited? Kresock (talk) 03:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Got it. BusterD (talk) 04:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Appreciate the responses. I cited some figures for the Yankee casualties, but if there's other significantly different totals around they could be added. I'm less sure of the Conf. numbers so I'll leave that alone. One thing I noticed about this article is no mention of Stone's arrest/confinement and his testifying before the almighty committee about this action. I'll remedy that (after expanding Stone's page about it more) if there aren't objections. Kresock (talk) 23:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)