Talk:Battle of Mortimer's Cross

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Detail[edit]

Tripled the size of the article, inc. refs etc. No longer a stub. Basket Feudalist 19:53, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

The Butlers did it[edit]

I simplified the reference to Butler: as someone who has lived in the area, Wiltshire is a long way away from north Herefordshire. The article is for a world-wide, not Herefordshire audience, and the famous Butler family are far more notable world-wide (and therefore for readers of the encyclopedia) as earls of Ormonde … a later earl was one of the prime movers of the Irish confederacy (rebellion) of the 17th century. I suppose we could go back to mentioning both.Straw Cat (talk) 00:14, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

For a world-wide audience I should think they're not that far apart-! I'm also not sure it's really relevant what the Butlers did 200 years later, although I agree they should be recognised as being the same famous family (perhaps a ref along the lines of 'Who, by the seventeenth century, would later...' etc?).
But on this particular point the secondary literature is pretty clear: Robin Neillands (The wars of The Roses, London 1992, p.99), E.F. Jacob (The Fifteenth Century, Oxford 1961, 524), Anthony Goodman (The Wars of the Roses, London 1981, p.49), and Charles Ross (Edward IV, Trowbridge 1974, p.31) all refer to him by his English title.
Interestingly, (and apropros nothing) his Irish title was not that useful to Butler during this period; a few months previously, whilst the duke of York was in Ireland (as Lord Lieutenant), Ormond sent an agent to arrest him, and due to having far more popular support amongst the Irish nobility, York had him HD&Q...! All good clean fun... Basket Feudalist 13:28, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

"I simplified the reference to Butler:" Really? Then why does he become Wiltshire again lower down the page? (I have edited the text to Butler)

"as someone who has lived in the area, Wiltshire is a long way away from north Herefordshire." Have you really? I have lived in both and that too is wholly irrelevant to anything and this is problematic, because you are implying a relationship between titles and geography which has no substance. Topically the Earls of Pembroke reside at Wilton, that's in Wiltshire (for your benefit). The Duchy of Cornwall is in the hands of the Prince of Wales, but it owns great tracts of Herefordshire. It is even further from Herefordshire to Cornwall. There is not the slightest hint in Wikipedia that the current Duke of Cambridge has any connection with Cambridge, which is a large city to the north of London.Optymystic (talk) 08:48, 29 July 2013 (UTC)