Talk:Battle of Schöngrabern

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Comments[edit]

Not a bad article. My suggestions for its improvement are:

1. Can the actual troop numbers be better researched? I know that many historians believe Murat had 30,000 troops at his disposal, and Bagration may have had as few as 4,000 to 6,000.

2. Can any details regarding the combat itself be added? It is a fact that the Russians fended off several French assaults...that is no mean accomplishment. Napoleon himself, upon hearing of the details at Schoen Grabern, commented on the resolve of the Russian infantry.

3. There is not sufficient attention in this article to the strategic success enjoyed by the Russians: Bagration's object was to delay the French advance, which he succeeded in doing by holding Murat off for six hours during the fighting.

4. Bagration executed a skilled and organized withdrawal from the field...I think this should be mentioned.

5. Perhaps the outcome of the battle should read as "French tactical victory, Russian strategic success"? It was, after all, a succussful Russian rearguard action.

Kenmore 05:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)kenmore

I really don't think the links at the bottom should be there. They relate to a society of re-inactors who are "refighting the war" and is not a reference or historically accurate.

Response[edit]

Thank you for your kind comments.

1: Numbers - My sources are as stated, plus Chandler's "Austerlitz" in the Osprey books series; they have no more details. I shall check a couple of other books I have. As I don't read French or Russian the archives of the armies are denied to me. But any suggestions as to other sources gratefully received.

2. Combat - where do you get your "established facts" from? I don't mean to be rude, but a source is needed. I refer you back to my comments on my sources above. The description in "War and Peace" gives detail, but how reliable is that? 3,4,5. Agree, modified as suggested.

I put this article up as I got fed up with finding nothing of detail about the battle on the internet. If I can find more accessible details, such as a reliable map, etc, I shall add them. Andrewshobley 13:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Your latest contribution to the article does justice to Bagration's rearguard action. I think the article is better rounded out now.
As for details of the battle, I remember reading somewhere many years ago that Bagration repelled about six consecutive French attacks before finally giving way. I think the Russians lost two of their four cannon.
I remember reading also that a certain infantry engagement at Schoen Grabern was remarkable in that it was one of the very instances in the way in which both sides actually ended up in close quarters combat with each other. Normally one of the two sides would lose its nerve and break ranks prior to making physical contact with the enemy.
Someone who could direct you to first rate military descriptions of the battle is Alexander Mikaberidze, a Georgian native who is now a professor somewhere in the US. Try this link for more information:

http://www.napoleon-series.org/research/biographies/bagration/c_bagration1.html

Kenmore 13:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)kenmore