Talk:Bedford–Stuyvesant, Brooklyn

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Hip-Hop?[edit]

No mention of the history of Hip-Hop in Bed-Stuy? Seems like after South Bronx, this would be one of the most influential areas, and worthy of at least a mention.

So feel free to add factual material if you have it. This is Wikipedia. -- Cecropia 05:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation[edit]

What is the correct pronunciation of Stuyvesant? I'm Dutch myself, but I can assume in English it would be said differently. Soetermans 12:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Locally, it is pronounced STY-vuh-SINT, with the last syllable less emphasized than the first. How would you say it? -- Cecropia 18:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
That is hard to explain, because in Dutch the 'stuy' part is pronounced differently. I don't think that in English there's a similar sound to it. About the 'sant' part, that's said like you read it (sant is old-Dutch for zand, sand ofcourse).Soetermans

Context of race riots[edit]

I recontextualiized (is that a word?) the nature of the later race riots. By the latter part of the decade, rioting occurred in the broader context of the social and political climate in the U.S. of the time, not specific to problems in Bed-Stuy. Partly because of Mayor Lindsay, NYC suffered less than many other communities after the initial riots. -- Cecropia 16:33, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Naming[edit]

I think this should be moved back to Bedford-Stuyvesant, sans the ", Brooklyn". I believe "Bed-Stuy" is well known enough to get it changed back to Bedford-Stuyvesant. --Zimbabweed 22:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, Bedford-Stuyvesant has long been synonymous with being a section of its own. People don't usually refer to it as Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. It's either Bedstuy, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Stuy or an amalgamation of Bedford-Stuyvesant.--Redwolfb14 17:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Most people refer to BEdford-Stuyvesant as either "da stuy" or "Do or Die Bed-stuy" and some areas of Brooklyn knows Bed-stuy as those nicknames to usually around marcy projects —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.124.220 (talk) 18:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Nicky Cruz[edit]

What was the name of the street, where Nicky Cruz lived? -Wonderer from Finland

Education, Places To Visit[edit]

Some one should post information about education and colleges, and things of that sort. Also places to come and visit here in bed-stuy.

Are there any colleges in Bed-stuy? It's not really a tourist destination. I can't really see a reason for someone to visit the place unless they know someone there or they like old brownstones.

NPOV[edit]

"Improved" needs to be used only if directly citing a source that talks of improvements to the neighborhood. 24.47.149.158 00:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Race Riots[edit]

I recently saw a PBS documentary on NYC that mentioned the Harlem riots referred to in this article. It claimed that the black youth had not in fact been shot, but had been quietly released to avoid trouble. However, when he disappeared a rumour that he had been killed quickly spread, fueling the riots. Can anyone confirm this? 67.70.28.217 (talk) 03:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)a gentleman from Canada

Dave Chapelle's Block Party[edit]

I'm slightly changing the part that refers to Dave Chapelle's Block Party being filmed in Bed-Stuy. The site of Broken-Angel, as well as many other blocks featured in the film, are in Clinton Hill. It should be acknowledged that much of the film takes place in this area, as well as Bed-Stuy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMac121 (talkcontribs) 16:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Racially diverse?[edit]

I found this part in the article strange. I lived in Bed-Stuy as recent as December of 2009 and there were very few whites in the neighborhood. In fact, whenever I've gone back, I haven't noticed anything different either. I also think the article downplays the crime problem in the neighborhood. It may not be like the 80's and early 90's anymore, but I'd be willing to bet that the crime rate is still among the worst neighborhoods in the city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RandyRhoadsRonnieDio (talkcontribs) 04:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity of residents[edit]

I've changed the section title from Ethnic changes since it hasn't been established what it's changing from. More to the point, the ethnicity or demographics over time is more interesting than changes.

Beyond that, this section is missing the early residents and the recent influx of conservative Jewish (not sure what they're called), African (not african-american) and Caribbean residents. I've tagged it as {{POV-section}} and {{Recentism}}. Please don't remove the tags without addressing those issues.Toddst1 (talk) 17:32, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Boundaries[edit]

Biggie Smalls has been restored to the notable residents section on the strength of an article which claims his address was considered part of Bed-Stuy at the time. I see little evidence for this claim elsewhere.

There are plenty of sources that say Biggie was from Bed-Stuy -- unsurprising, since he always said he was, and we tend to trust people about such things. But I have been unable to find any source from any era on the neighborhood that defines the boundaries in such a way as to include his home. New York neighborhoods tend to be vaguely defined, but one can find plenty of sources that attempt to define Bed-Stuy's boundaries. Urbanology, for instance, shows three different maps, based on the boundaries of community district 3, the definition from the Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation, and the definition from the U.S. Census Bureau. They differ substantially, but not one of them includes Biggie's home.

I would be delighted to be proved wrong about this, but I don't think sources about a rapper can trump everything ever written about a neighborhood. If he lived outside what is considered Bed-Stuy in all discussion of the subject unrelated to him himself, then he lived outside of Bed-Stuy. I am removing him again pending further citations.

Ncsaint (talk) 23:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

You raise an interesting point and there's a way to handle this instead of just deleting sourced content, which Wikipedia discourages. I think you're alluding to a risk that the several media were fooled by a claim B.I.G. made and wished were true (I'm only assuming arguendo that his statements were aspirational but myth-making is common for major entertainment industry stars). But since his claim is sourced and is an important part of his public persona, it deserves weight. In this case, what we also need is a source that is either a validation or a disclaimer: either a source settling the larger boundary claim for any of the years he lived at his address or a source disputing his claim of ever living inside Bed-Stuy. If sourcing says the latter, then we should report both his claim from the recently-deleted sources and what the other sourcing says about his not living there, because Wikipedia prefers reporting both sides of a controversy. The recently-deleted sources should be restored but there's no problem with waiting temporarily while we seek other sourcing or we come up empty-handed. New sourcing can be added whenever found. Nick Levinson (talk) 15:15, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
The trouble is not a lack of sources exactly. There are lots of sources on the boundaries of Bed-Stuy, though that is obviously not a cut and dry issue. There are sufficient sources, which are undisputed, as to where he lived. We are 100% sure of where he lived, based on reliable sources, and 100% of sources (AFAIK) about Bed-Stuy that aren't specifically about him describe an area that excludes that address. But no one would bother to write specifically that he did not live there, no more than that they would write that he did not live in Paris. So the question is simply whether comparing an address to a boundary constitutes banned original research. That would be the *only* excuse for including him, since, again, his address in not controversial, and the boundaries of Bed-Stuy do not include that address in any source other than those specifically asserting that Biggie lived there. - Ncsaint (talk) 06:38, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree that, normally, people don't write denials of other people's claims, but they do if the subjects are controversial, and famous people often get looked at for controversy. If someone disputed his lyrical authenticity, they might have challenged his residential neighborhood claim, because it would have critiqued his authenticity. (Years ago, a controversy arose over Jamake Highwater, who said he was an American Indian and who had built a career as a writer of books on the subject; I had read one of his books (I think on hiking or travel); apparently, he was not a tribal member.) I'm not deeply into this artist's work, but I haven't noticed any controversy around his authenticity, so the likelier addition would be that the boundaries were inclusive back then, if sourceable. I assume there are sources about Bed-Stuy's boundaries as they were decades ago, especially if Clinton Hill is newly carved out from Bed-Stuy. One problem may be that the obvious sources would be old city maps from various publishers and they would tend not to have lines for boundaries but simply neighborhood names plunked into approximate areas meant, perhaps decentered for typesetting to fit, and citing those maps for boundaries would often be original research. But if there exists a secondary source from his time frame and not about him or his music that clearly includes his address as being within Bed-Stuy, that would solve the problem. If what we wind up with is a source that he lived at a certain address and a source that clearly places that address as within Bed-Stuy back then, stating those two statements would not be original research or banned synthesis. The two statements could even appear in different parts of the article and the boundary statement would still justify an entry as a notable resident. This awaits research, which probably won't be next week. Nick Levinson (talk) 15:39, 31 October 2013 (UTC)