Talk:Bengali phonology

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This article was last assessed in March 2012.

Aspirated and murmured[edit]

According to a 1921 article by Chatterji, there are no voiceless or voiced aspirates. This article seems well-written if unsourced. If there is no sourcing soon, I will remove all references to aspiration here and at Romanization of Bengali. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 17:10, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

বিচ্ছিরি [bittʃʰiri] and বিশ্রী [bisri][edit]

"For some speakers, [s] can be analyzed as an allophone of either /ʃ/ or /tʃʰ/ ([ʃalam] for সালাম [salam] 'greetings' or বিচ্ছিরি [bittʃʰiri] for বিশ্রী [bisri] 'ugly')."

I don't think this is right. First, [bittʃʰiri] is probably not the correct IPA transcription. It's more likely to be [bitʃʰ:iri]. Secondly, even so, the [tʃʰ] in [bitʃʰ:iri] isn't really an allophone of the [s] in [bisri]. বিচ্ছিরি is a todbhobo (i.e., derived Bengali) word for the totshomo (i.e., Sanskrit) বিশ্রী. When a Bengali speaker is pronouncing বিচ্ছিরি, he knows he is pronouncing a different word than বিশ্রী, a word with a different lexeme in the Bengali lexicon. --Zaheen (talk) 19:19, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Could [bittʃʰiri] be an emphatic form? Gemination is common for that. — kwami (talk) 02:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Postalveolars[edit]

What's the source for Bengali's postalveolars being alveolo-palatal? And the retroflex /ʂ/? Everything I've read on the language so far (which isn't much) has said they are simply palatoalveolars like in English and Hindi. AlexanderKaras (talk) 11:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

In the notes, we say "For some speakers, [s] can be analyzed as an allophone of either /ɕ/ or /tɕʰ/". That makes no sense, given the current chart. — kwami (talk) 20:34, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Going through Masica, it would seem there are some serious problems to correct. For example, the spirantization of g, k, kh in Dhaka. I'll try to get to this this afternoon. — kwami (talk) 20:55, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

For diphthongs, we only ref Masica and s.o. from 1926. Masica d n h /ee̯/ /eo̯/ /æo̯/ /oe̯/, so I'm moving them here for now:

/ee̯/ ee khee "having eaten"
/eo̯/ eo kheona "do not eat"
/æo̯/ êo nêo "you take"
/oe̯/ oe dhoe "she washes"

kwami (talk) 02:28, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll put some notes (clipped from Masica) on my sandbox talk page. If s.o. here wants to use them to rewrite the article, feel free. This is just sitting on my to-do list. — kwami (talk) 19:58, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Culture of Bengal template[edit]

Recently a template {{Culture of Bengal}} was placed on this page. In most phonology related articles such templates are avoided. Again, as this template is huge in size, it reduces the pleasure of reading the article. I've simply removed it for the time being. I think, there should be an consensus before putting that template on top of this article. » nafSadh did say 18:05, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the navigational template is that much different from the one at Spanish phonology, Hungarian phonology, or Catalan phonology.
One option we could consider is modifying the template so it's more presentable on this and other articles. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 20:24, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't really have a firm opinion on this point. If someone has removed the template, it is his pleasure. Since there is an objection, I will also remove phonology from the template. Cheers. - Chandan Guha (talk) 03:46, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Masica notes[edit]

These were notes I took from Masica, but never got around to integrating into the article. Now I probably won't, so use them if you can.

They're direct quotes. No page numbers, though. — kwami (talk) 22:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)