Talk:Bert Jansch

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Good article Bert Jansch has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Biographical detail[edit]

I have added a lot of details, summarised from the Doug Kennedy book which I have referenced. Although this is a music book, not a biography, it appears to have been written with Jansch's co-operation: the transcriptions seem very authentic and are accompanied by some quotes from Jansch. Hence, I think the details are likely to be accurate. Bluewave 17:51, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation[edit]

Can someone please add the pronunciation of "Jansch"? Is the J pronounced as a J or a Y? It looks as if his surname might be of Germanic origin (?). Badagnani 06:46, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The great majority of people seem to pronounce like a Y but I have talked to someone who knew Bert in the 1960s and consistently pronounces it like J. Bluewave 06:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I just found a reference and added it to the article. Was just listening to Solomons Seal while getting my car repaired this morning. What a great group Pentangle was. Badagnani 06:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Black Swan[edit]

The reference to "Black Swan" being released in September 2005 was surely a mistake for September 2006. The notes related to it have been re-framed into the past tense, and moved into the main body. The untidy brackets have been tidied.

References[edit]

I have had a bash at citing sources for most of the statements made in the article, and have taken the opportunty to add a bit more material. Also added sections about his guitars and his influence. It would now probably benefit from a good review by someone else. Bluewave 12:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Horseshoe folk club[edit]

There might be more than one folk club in London called the horseshoe, but the only one I have been able to track down is the one in the pub called the Horseshoe in Islington. NOT Tottenham Court Road. Does anyone have a citation to support the claim that there was ever a club called the Horseshoe in Tottenham Court Road? There is certainly no pub of that name there now. I'll give you a couple of months, and if nothing is forthcoming, and I am very inclined to change the text from "Tottenham Court Road" to "Islington". Here again, I have found no evidence that he founded that club either, but at least the geography will be verifiable, and that club still exists. Ogg 19:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

One references: Jacqui McShee's website includes: "Pentangle first performed together at the Horseshoe Pub in London's Tottenham Court Road, late in 1967" [1] quoted from a Pentange programme I think.Bluewave 07:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Have done a bit more research today. London phone book for 1970 has "Horseshoe Hotel", Tottenham Court Road, W1, so this is a possibility. The Doug Kennedy book says "Bert, and John Renbourn started the 'Horshoe' folk club in Tottenham Court Road". Bluewave 19:10, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

This link:

suggests that it was a jazz club rather than a folk club, and that it was at 264-267 Tottenham Court Road (now Gultronics). In the 70's it became jazz club JAFFAS:

It is mentioned twice in "Electric Folk" by Britta Sweers (2005), in both cases in 1967 only, but in neither case is it suggested that it was a folk club. If Jansch had actually founded it, I think there would be more than one source to support it. If he did found it, he can't have been hosting it for long, because in 1967/8 he catapulted himself into super-stardom, too expensive for a small venue. The Islington folk club (now at the Horseshoe) is one of the 3 or 4 oldest folk clubs in London, and certainly out-ranks the Tottenham Court Road venue in importance. Would you be terribly upset if the square bracks were removed, and the words "folk and jazz" replaced "folk"? Ogg 20:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right that Kennedy was using "Folk club" in a very general sense and I would support your "folk and jazz" suggestion. There are several refs to them playing at the Horseshoe in Tottenham Ct Rd, so I think that part is OK. As for who founded the club, I can only find Kennedy supporting Jansch/Renbourn, so agree this may be doubtful. One other ref is the Unterberger book which quotes Ian Anderson of fRoots "Bert and John set themselves up in a club in Tottenham Court Road. They had a residency for some months.Basically, it was experimental. I don't think they rehearsed what they were doing very much..." I couldn't find a mention of the Horseshoe on Renbourn's website, although he does mention Les Cousins (incidentally I have been thinking about starting a Les Cousins article!) Bluewave 13:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Stop press! I've just found this article[2] from the Scotsman, quoting Bert: "Jansch met the guitarist John Renbourn. 'We shared a flat, and we got fed up with the Cousins scene because it was an all-night affair. If you were booked to play there you had to be there from midnight til dawn. There was a guy called Bruce Dunnett, who was a left-wing Scotsman, a communist, but he was an entrepreneur. He ran this club for us, the Horseshoe. Me and John were looking towards getting a band together, but anyone could get up and play. Sandy Denny was there. Various drummers and bass players. And out of it came Pentangle.'" Bluewave 13:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

That sounds pretty definitive. We seem to have some sort of concensus along the lines of: "Renbourn and Jansch frequently played together, developing their own intricate interplay between the two guitars, often referred to as Folk Baroque. In 1966, they recorded the Bert and John album together, featuring much of this material. Late in 1967 they tired of the all-nighters at Les Cousins and helped Bruce Dennett set up a music venue at The Horshoe pub (now defunct) at 264-267 Tottenham Court Road. Sandy Denny was there. Jacqui McShee began singing with the two guitarists and, with the addition of Danny Thompson (string bass) and Terry Cox (drums), they formed the group, Pentangle. The venue evolved into a jazz club, but by then the group had moved on. ... In 1968 Jansch married ... etc". I leave it up to you to do the honours. Ogg 20:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. Have done. I changed your words slightly....feel free to improve! Bluewave 13:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Les Cousins[edit]

Best of luck with the "Les Cousins" article. Here are some starter notes towards it:

The "Les Cousins" club in the basement of a Greek Restaurant in 48 Greek Street (several sources give Frith Street instead) might have been named after the Claude Chabrol film of the same name (1959). It was formed about 1963-4. (http://renbourn.camhosts.net/sohoyears.htm) Everyone pronounced it as if it was was English, not French. Run by Alexis Korner, first resident was Noel Murphy (Who he? - http://www.tudorfolkclub.org.uk/tudarch_2003_1.htm)

Roy Harper was a resident (http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/articles/2005/10/03/roy_harper_event_feature.shtml)

In November 2004 it was revived for a Nick Drake Tribute (http://www.martin-kingsbury.co.uk/articles/drake%20tribute.htm)

Roy Harper (album called "Live at Les Cousins 8/30/69" on "Blue Print". Originally released in 1996)

The "Spontaneous Music Ensemble" (John Stevens and Evan Parker plus Peter Koward) also recorded there in 1967 (http://www.emanemdisc.com/E4005.html)

There is a photograph of it here (http://sg.imess.net/greek.htm)

Also present: Andy Matthews, Sandy Denny, Jackson C Frank, Ralph McTell, Martin Carthy, Al Stewart, John Martyn, Linda Thompson, Julie Felix, Bridget St John, Alex Campbell, Ogg 12:37, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

See Les Cousins (music club) where I've made a start. Bluewave 17:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Jan 2007 edit[edit]

I have done a slight re-edit of the article, based on the Colin Harper biography. Harper has researched the subjetc thoroughly and includes some 35 pages of notes and citations, so I am taking it is the most reliable source unless there is a good reason to doubt it. I have, for instance:

  • added mention of first marriage;
  • expanded section on the 80s and included mention of Jansch's drinking;
  • added mention of Avocet, which Jansch himself rates highly
  • and a few other corrections, additions and changes of emphasis.

Hope this has improved the article. Other views always welcome! Bluewave 11:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Article rating[edit]

This article has been greatly improved and I have changed the guitarist page template to reflect that. Kudos to all editors who have worked on this article. I would recommend that you put it up for a GA review. Following the scutiny of that process I believe this article could be pushed up to FA status. Good luck! Cheers and take care! Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 14:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

GA nomination[edit]

Thanks to Anger22 for reviewing the article. As suggested, I have nominated it for GA review. Bluewave 15:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

GA candidacy on hold[edit]

I was very happy to read this article. I found it well-written and informative. However, I believe it should be placed on hold until the following issues are addressed:

  • Consider using {{Infobox musical artist}} instead of the guitarist infobox. Mr. Jansch is an influential guitarist, but he's also more than just a guitarist. Or, if the guitarist infobox must be used, then fill in the notable instruments field.
  • Great free-use image! However, all album-cover images need fair-use rationales.
  • Write some proper photo captions. Make them complete sentences. On the album covers, grab a notable fact about the album from the article and make it the caption. [Example: The debut album Bert Jansch was released in 1965 and went on to sell 150,000 copies.] If someone browsing the page was only reading the captions, they could still come away with some useful information.
  • Please see WP:MOS-T. Album titles are italicised, song titles should be in quotes.
  • Provide more wikilinks to technical musical terms like chord, sharp, flat and time signature.
  • Under partial discography, there's no need to say "Wikipedia article". All that's needed is this:
See also: Pentangle
  • The discography is neither very pretty nor easy to read. Maybe break that section into two columns. Italicise the album titles. Consider dropping the months from the release dates and try the years first, like this:
  • 1965 – Bert Jansch
  • 1965 – It Don't Bother Me
  • 1966 – Bert and John (with John Renbourn)
  • Has this article had a peer review? If not, consider withdrawing the GA nomination and putting it through the process. Or, while it's on hold, run it through the automated peer review, which can be found here. — WiseKwai 10:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Edits suggested by User:Wisekwai[edit]

Thanks for reviewing the article! OK, I've made a start.

  • Album title italicised, songs quoted — done.
  • "See also" changed as suggested. — done
  • Discography reformatted. Reformat as suggested (OK but I'm sorry to lose the months) — done.Bluewave 14:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Guitarist infobox. My inclination is to leave this. The rationale is that Jansch developed as a writer and musician through being primarily a guitarist. I don't think he would have made his original album or done the pioneering folk baroque work with Renbourn, or formed Pentangle, etc, without being noted as a gifted and innovative guitarist first. The plaudits from people like Jimmy Page and Neil Young seem to relate to his guitar work too (certainly I doubt if they refer to his singing!) In some ways, I would compare him with, say, Clapton, who also writes, sings, etc, but is first and foremost a guitarist (and has a guitarist infobox). I'll put in something about his guitars: he has long had a deal with Yamaha although he has used all sorts of guitars, particularly in the early days. His first album was reputedly recorded using a borrowed guitar. Harper's biography includes documentary evidence of at least one occasion when Jansch failed to turn up for a gig because he didn't manage to borrow a guitar (or the money for his travel costs)! Bluewave 15:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Added Yamaha to infobox — done
  • Fair use rational for pics — done
  • Captions for pics — done
  • Wikilinks. esp. musical terms — done Bluewave 16:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Now that you've explained the reasoning behind the guitarist infobox, I support that and can now see why it would be used for someone like Eric Clapton. — WiseKwai 19:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Automated peer review[edit]

Automated peer review, as suggested above, comes up with the following: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
  • If this article is about a person, please add {{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}} along with the required parameters to the article - see Wikipedia:Persondata for more information.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}[]) in headings.
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • Avoid using contractions like: Don't, Don't.
  • As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Bluewave 17:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

OK I've followed suggestions on dates, heading styles, and persondata. I've added a little more to the intro (which didn't mention that he recorded or toured. The robot doesn't like "It don't bother me" but that's an album title. It also objects to some of the placing of reference numbers, but I think this is only in cases where they have been very carefully placed in the text so that it is clear which fact they are referencing. There are some redundancies and vague terms but I haven't fixed those: I think that might call for a new editor! OK I reckon I've gone about as far as I can go with this! Bluewave 18:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

GA review passed[edit]

This is my first GA-review. Having been through the GA process a couple of times, I felt compelled to help out. Since the suggestions I offered have been implemented, I believe this to be a good article. Good work by everyone involved. — WiseKwai 19:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help in improving the quality of the article and for the GA rating. Cheers! Bluewave 19:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Arthritis?[edit]

I remember reading am article (either about Donovan or Led Zeppelin; it's been twenty-plus years) that mentioned Jansch had had trouble with arthritis. Does anyone know more about this? Zephyrad (talk) 06:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Reassessment[edit]

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Bert Jansch/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

As part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles' Project quality task force ("GA Sweeps"), all old good articles are being re-reviewed to ensure that they meet current good article criteria (as detailed at WP:WIAGA.) I have determined that this article needs some work to meet current criteria, outlined below:

  • Apparently unsourced statements:
    • "He also met and shared a flat with Robin Williamson,[fixed] with whom he travelled to London in 1963." [fixed] (they were friends in London but don't seem to have travelled together).
    • "After a stint as a nurseryman, Jansch became a full-time musician and spent two years playing one-night stands in British folk clubs. This was a musical apprenticeship that exposed him to a range of influences, including Martin Carthy and Ian Campbell, but especially Anne Briggs, from whom he learned some of the songs (such as "Blackwaterside" and "Reynardine") that would later feature strongly in his recording career." [fixed]
    • "In his early career, Jansch was sometimes characterized as a British Bob Dylan. [fixed] This, however, was misleading, in that Jansch's best work has always been fundamentally instrument-driven unlike Dylan's which is primarily lyric-based."
    • "Jansch followed his first album with two more, produced in quick succession: It Don't Bother Me and Jack Orion—which contained his first recording of "Blackwaterside", later to be taken up by Jimmy Page and recorded by Led Zeppelin as "Black Mountain Side"." [fixed]
    • "Pentangle split up in 1973, and Jansch and his wife bought a farm near Lampeter, in Wales, and withdrew temporarily from the concert circuit." [fixed]
    • "Jansch and Clements continued the work they had started before Jansch's illness, resulting in the 1988 Leather Launderette album."[fixed]
    • "Since 1995, Jansch has appeared frequently at the 12 Bar Club in Denmark Street, London. Live at the 12 Bar was originally a bootleg, but was of studio standard, and issued officially in 1996. [fixed] In 2002 Jansch, Bernard Butler and Johnny "Guitar" Hodge performed live together at the Jazz Cafe, London." [fixed]
    • "In 2007, he featured on Babyshambles album, Shotter's Nation, playing acoustic guitar in the song "The Lost Art of Murder". After recording, he accompanied Babyshambles' lead singer Pete Doherty on several of his acoustic gigs, and performed on the famous Pete and Carl Reunion Gig, where ex-Libertines and Dirty Pretty Things singer Carl Barat joined Doherty on stage to the delight of thousands of fans." [fixed]
    • "Due to an unexpected illness, he had to cancel a 22 date North American tour on June 23 2009. The tour was about about to start on the 26th. Jansch's website read this: Bert is very sorry to be missing the tour, and apologises to all the fans who were hoping to see him. He is looking forward to rescheduling as soon as possible.” [fixed]
    • "Bert Jansch's musical influences are many and varied: folk (Anne Briggs and A.L. Lloyd); jazz (Charlie Mingus and John Coltrane); early music (John Renbourn and Julian Bream); Indian music (Ravi Shankar) and many others. From these, he has distilled his own unmistakable guitar style." Section expanded and rewritten. Added McGhee and Graham who were probably the most influential. Lost Shankar and Coltrane. I can't find citations for them, though they were probably indirect influences via Graham. I think this is now fixed but would welcome views
    • "However, it is his acoustic guitar playing that sets him apart from other folk musicians." I've changed "....sets him apart from other folk musicians" to "is most notable". This pretty much a statement of fact but I think the cited quotes support it
    • Much of the "Influence" section.Citations all fixed except one which is cn-tagged
  • Paragraphs require at least three paragraphs; all the one or two-sentence sections throughout the article need to be expanded, merged or cut. I think these are all fixed except for the pronunciation note which seems worth keeping separate. Also not sure about the section on influences, which is a bullet list of individual sentences
  • Throughout the article there are non-free images used for purely decorative purposes, in violation of WP:NFCC. File:Bert jansch.png, File:RosemaryLane.png, File:Avocet-jansch.png, File:BlackSwan.png. [fixed]

I am putting the article on hold for seven days pending improvement on the above. Please keep me appraised of progress on this page. Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your assessment. Looking down the list, I think the required work is quite achievable. In particular, a lot of the missing citations have arisen because an existing citation was, at the time of writing, implied (in the editor's mind!) to cover two sentences, or even a whole paragraph. So in many cases, the citations will be duplicates of others already in the article. However, you'll appreciate that there is quite a lot of work involved, because it will mean re-checking the original sources, and several of these are printed books, not online sites. I'll make a start on it but I may need to plead for an extension to your seven day deadline. Bluewave (talk) 10:19, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for keeping me updated. Since you've been making good progress, I'd be willing to keep this open longer if you've got to fetch the books. I write apparently uncited because they don't have a trailing ref near them; even if the material is cited in the following paragraph, you should end your paragraphs with citations to make it clear :) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 14:56, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! And I agree about the citations....I wasn't whinging about them ;-) Bluewave (talk) 18:06, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
As of today, I think the problems listed above have all been addressed, but I'd welcome your views on this. One thing that wasn't explicitly mentioned, but I don't much like, is the list format of the "influences" section. Lists always look like a lazy way to write an article, and they just encourage people to add to them. The section could be rewritten as continuous prose but might end up rather bitty, which could be even worse. Any views (on this or any other aspect of improving the article)? Bluewave (talk) 16:14, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
I suppose it could be prosified. You keep the bits which have additional info (""Angie" (Jansch's version of the Graham tune) was his favourite, and would drive Oldfield to call his first band (with sister Sally) "The Sallyangie".") and then streamline all the other artists that just cite him as an influence into a sentence ("Other artists... blah blah blah"). There's still some citations missing in the article however. Also, I think you could move the pronunciation to the lead or early life, but how isrec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic a reliable source? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 17:35, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
I'll maybe have a go at "prosifying" offline and see how it turns out. I thought I'd addressed all the missing cites that you specifically asked for, but I'll go through the article again over the next couple of days, while I've got the Harper biography to hand and check any areas where there are unsourced statements (so please don't feel the need to go through it again yourself til I've done that). I seem to remember that the pronunciation section was edited by his son Adam Jansch. It's one of those cases where the information is true and useful but the citation is very weak. I'll see if I can find a better cite. Bluewave (talk) 18:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Has any progress been made on the above? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 01:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi David. I believe I have fixed all the points that you raised originally. Also fixed other missing citations. I have moved the pronunciation note, as you suggested. Also prosified the influence section. I posted a draft on the talk page for comment and got one supportive comment, so I've now edited that into the article. There are a couple of sentences tagged as needing cites. I don't know if this acceptable for a good article. If not, I'd rather take them out than fail GA for the sake of a couple of sentences. I'd welcome your views on whether you think we have successfully brought up the standard to meet the GA criteria. Thanks. Bluewave (talk) 13:49, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
All contentious statements need a citation; if they're tagged, they either need to be cited, the offending content removed, or the tag removed if you can say that it's unlikely the average reader would find it disputable (this is a tricky issue, however, and generally I'd say it's better safe than sorry.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:44, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
OK thanks. I'll move any uncited statements to the talk page, to give anyone who feels strongly (they probably did at one time!) a chance to support them Bluewave (talk) 19:51, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
OK I've moved the uncited statements to the talk page and offered people the opportunity to find citations (if I don't do so first), so they are no longer an issue in the article. Bluewave (talk) 12:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Alright looks good enough to pass. Thanks for your hard work on the article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 21:56, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Jimmy Page made that comment in an interview around 1976-77 ... Jansch's album AVOCET had evidenced what appeared to be a loss of virtuosity, Page said his playing was "going down or something" and that it "turned out he has arthritis." I've not read anything else about this claim - or where Page got his information from. It was in an issue of GIG magazine. HammerFilmFan (talk) 08:41, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Influence section[edit]

In the Good Article Reassessment above, there was some discussion about the "influence" section and whether it would be better as continuous prose, rather than a bullet list. The kind of thing might be along the lines of:

Jansch's music, and particularly his acoustic guitar playing, have influenced a range of well-known musicians. His first album (the 1965 Bert Jansch) was much admired, with Jimmy Page saying "At one point, I was absolutely obsessed with Bert Jansch. When I first heard that LP, I couldn't believe it. It was so far ahead of what everyone else was doing. No one in America could touch that." Page would later record a version of Jansch's "Blackwaterside". The same album included Jansch's version of the Davy Graham instrumental "Angie". This was a favourite of Mike Oldfield, who practised acoustic guitar alone as a child, and was then heavily influenced by Jansch's style. The title of the instrumental inspired Oldfield to call his first band (with sister Sally) "The Sallyangie". Jansch's version of Angie was also the inspiration for Paul Simon's recording of the piece on his "Sounds of Silence" album. From the same era, Neil Young is quoted as saying, "As much of a great guitar player as Jimi [Hendrix] was, Bert Jansch is the same thing for acoustic guitar...and my favourite." Nick Drake and Donovan were both admirers of Jansch: both recorded covers of his songs and Donovan went on to dedicate two of his own songs to Jansch; "Bert's Blues" appeared on his "Sunshine Superman" LP, and "House of Jansch" on his fourth album "Mellow Yellow". Other tributes included Gordon Giltrap's album "Janschology" (2000) which has two tunes by Jansch, plus two others that show his influence.
Jansch went on to influence a later generation of guitar players. Bernard Butler states that Noel Gallagher, Jarvis Cocker, and Johnny Marr (as well as himself) have "paid homage to this quiet, unassuming, but hugely revered master". Tsuneo Imahori is known to have been heavily influenced by Jansch.

Before putting a lot of work into this, I'd welcome views from other people. Bluewave (talk) 11:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Bluewave, with all of the time and TLC that you have given to this article I doubt you would ever find anyone objecting to any of your proposed modifications. At one time the style of Wikipedia was more welcoming to cold bullet points. And personally I find bullets easy to follow. But for an article such as this where the style is, for the most part, not cold facts your continuous prose re-structure would be a grand improvement. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 20:21, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for that :-) It's good to know that someone takes an interest and is appreciative of my efforts. I'll leave this a few days more to see if anyone else comments, then tidy up the prose and add it unless someone thinks it's a bad idea, Bluewave (talk) 13:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Fylde guitars[edit]

Someone has added a mention of his association with Fylde guitars (but no cite). I've found a reference to him playing Fylde guitars, but is there any more significant association? Also, there was mention specifically of the Falstaff model. This model is closely associated with Davy Graham but I can't find any specific mention of Jansch playing the Falstaff. For the time being I've toned down the statement to the citeable facts (NB the article is currently undergoing Good Article reassessment so I'm probably being ultra-cautious about sourcing information). Please add more information if it is supported from sources. Bluewave (talk) 12:24, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Uncited statements[edit]

There are a few uncited statements in the article. Although they are not terribly contentious, they would be sufficient for the article to lose its GA status (see discussion above). I propose taking them out of the article and parking them here until someone can come up with citations.

  • "The comarison of Jansch with Dylan was, however, was misleading, in that Jansch's best work has always been fundamentally instrument-driven unlike Dylan's which is primarily lyric-based."
  • "Although Pentangle were regarded as a folk music group, they played many of their own compositions and Jansch undertook much of the writing."

Bluewave (talk) 19:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Intro section[edit]

Following the recommendation that the intro be improved, better to summarise the article, I have had a first go at doing so.

Herbert Jansch (born 3 November 1943), known as Bert Jansch, is a Scottish folk musician and founding member of the band Pentangle. He was born in Glasgow and and came to prominence in London in the 1960s, particularly as an innovative and accomplished acoustic guitarist, but also as a singer and songwriter. He has recorded at least 25 albums and has toured extensively starting in the 1960s and continuing into the 21st century.
Jansch was a leading figure in the British folk music revival of the 1960s, touring folk clubs and recording several solo albums, as well as collaborating with other musicians such as John Renbourn and Anne Briggs. In 1968, he joined the band Pentangle, touring and recording with them until their break-up in 1972. He then took a few years' break from music, returning in the late 1970s to work on a series of projects with other musicians. He joined a reformed Pentangle in the early 1980s and remained with them as they evolved through various changes of personnel until 1995. Since then, Jansch has continued to work as a solo artist.
His work has influenced such artists as Paul Simon, Johnny Marr, Bernard Butler, Jimmy Page, Nick Drake, Graham Coxon, Donovan and Neil Young. He has received two Lifetime Achievement Awards at the BBC Folk Awards: one, in 2001, for his solo achievements and the other, in 2007, as a member of Pentangle.

All comments welcome. Bluewave (talk) 12:12, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Very good. Put your changes directly on the article, they are an improvement, and people can build on what you have done. Be WP:Bold. We need editors who are willing and able to contribute. SilkTork *YES! 13:05, 11 March 2011 (UTC)