Talk:Bettie Page

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Former featured article candidate Bettie Page is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
July 9, 2005 Peer review Reviewed
July 27, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted
February 8, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Former featured article candidate
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"Pornography"[edit]

Current version statement "In late-1940s America, "camera clubs" were formed to circumvent laws restricting the production of nude photos. These clubs existed, ostensibly, to promote artistic photography; but in reality, many were merely fronts for the making of pornography..." is extremely misleading. Integral to current definition of "pornography" is portrayal of explicit sexual activity. 1) Most of these clubs never were involved in creating anything more than fairly mild erotica. Erotica as a creative form and a legal definition predates the 1950s. The definition of pornography during the 1950s was NOT as clear as the postal inspectors tried to insist, and court rulings of the time make that clear. 2) Bettie Page never was photographed in explicit sexual activity as far as is known, nor was being a pinup girl unacceptable for serious actresses of the 1940s and 1950s. She was not a porn star, even by the standards of the times. Suggesting she was is very misleading and revisionist. UC232 (talk) 03:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Conversion to Xianity[edit]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't she born Xtian? so wouldn´t it be more apropriate to say she became more "religious" or "born again"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 21:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, saying she "converted" to christianity suggests that only certain fundamentalist sects are actually christian. She was raised and practiced christianity before she became born again. UC232 (talk) 03:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

The article contradicts itself regarding her missionary work. In the third paragraph, it claims she "served as a Baptist missionary in Angola." Later (under the heading of "Years out of the Spotlight," it states that "she attempted to become a Christian missionary in Africa, but was rejected for having had a divorce." I believe that the latter is correct. There are no references in any of her biographies to her ever visiting Africa; nor I can find that claim anywhere on [1], which is the citation given. Jim Deutsch (talk) 18:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Angola is not mentioned in the cited source (all mention of her conversion to Christianity has been removed from the official bio), and this contradicts other sources. I'm making the change to the lede, and cite a different source -- Foetusized (talk) 14:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Notability[edit]

This article skips straight from her graduating to the "revival" in interest of her. I have no idea why she is famous, beyond a vague notion of bondage based on the picture of her and other context clues. Is she a porn star? A feminist? A white slave? Someone familiar with her biography needs to fill in this MAJOR gap. [[User:|User:]] 07:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)Dapper

I expanded the article to include more about her time out of the spot light and some of what she's been up to the last few years. I would like to return the article to GA status and feel that gathering a full biography is a good place to start. User:FLJuJitsu 14:00 21 Sept 07 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Popularity[edit]

This article needs more work, but I've sat on it long enough.

Some kind of discussion is needed to explain why Bettie Page is popular, even a simple quote from someone knowledgeable about the history of the pin-up. There should also be a link or two to the fan pages about Bettie.

I was more interested in supplying the information what happened to Bettie since she left the limelight, since this is particularly hard to find with a Google search, unless you throw in keywords like ``arrest" or ``mental institution." In other words, you have to know the answer to find it.

And I want this to be NPOV; I have no interest in libelling Bettie Page, but there's more to her life than that she posed for pictures for a while, then went on with her life. -- llywrch 19:54 Mar 22, 2003 (UTC)


  1. The character Betty in the Rocketeer is based on Bettie; Disney redubbed the character Jenny when making the property into film. So mentioning artist Dave Stevens would be nice.
  2. Greg Theakston's Betty Pages are worth mention too.
  3. Buck Henry was a member of the Manhatten Camera Club - I believe he took 3D color photos of Bettie.
  4. Bettie was a cover girl as well.
  5. Robin Leach was one of the first to track her down but he respected her privacy.
- Sparky 08:13, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hugh Hefner was besotted by her. Barbi Benton was his love interest for awhile because she resembled Bettie in her prime.

The artist Olivia represented by Robert Bane Galleries has done several series of prints on The Tennessee Tease. There's a good link in the article.


I don't think the 3-D can be scanned with any hope of success. I tried and failed. Olivia did take a polaroid of Hef, my cousin and me -- and I do know the comic book personalities. But there are things that should be secrets. - Sparky 03:47, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Bettie or Betty[edit]

which is it? Family Guy Guy 12:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It's Bettie. She was born Betty, but changed to Bettie. Don't know why.... - Lauren —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.252.25.30 (talk) 19:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

According to Robert Foster, The Real Bettie Page, page 9, it was "Betty Mae Page, according to her birth certificate, but when she became old enough to write, the spelling changed to Bettie." Jim Deutsch (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

She probably did it to make herself stand out from all the BETTY's back in the day 162.213.159.204 (talk) 19:07, 20 March 2014 (UTC)31jetjet

Bettie is very private but - this is a transcription of a radio show ...[edit]

(I suggest mining the below to enrich the article) - Sparky

Transcription from Nashville Citysearch’s Bettie Page Live Chat[edit]

Isn't the image copyrighted?[edit]

Thumb See notes on the image description page. Could be fair use, couldn't possibly be public domain, I wouldn't think. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 12:13, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) I don't know where this image came from, but I would agree with you, it does not look public domain. Dlloyd 21:38, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) Added DVD cover "Image:Bettie Page DVD cover.jpg" Dlloyd 22:49, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I scanned it from my copy of Glamour magazine which is now long out of print. And cited fair use as it was no longer available for purchase. - Sparky 18:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Glamour International magazine back cover sans indica

- the old link to the image went dead. I feel this is a good size as it is not even decent quality for a wallpaper and thus won't hurt the artist Dave Stevens who may resume selling it as a poster sometime again in the future. Glamour International went belly up by 1993. Is everything kosher now? - Sparky 17:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Please let me know if we can return the cartoon to the article now. - Sparky
image is fair use at this size. - Sparky (talk) 14:15, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
But it's not Bettie Page! It's a cartoonist's drawing of Page. I don't mean to disparage Dan Stevens' work, but is this *really* the only image of Page that can be used fairly? Agreed, it is a nice drawing and while it does *resemble* Page, I don't see how it would benefit the article, as it would be *only* image. In fact, I'd go so far to say it's potentially detrimental. Just MHO. --buck (talk) 15:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Images[edit]

I suggest that the image of Bettie herself (video cover) be moved up in the article to near the top, and the cartoon based on her moved down to around where it is mentioned in the text of the article. Thoughts, objections? -- Infrogmation 01:23, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As no one has objected, I have done so. -- Infrogmation 15:21, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The photograph on this page was taken by Art Amsie ca. 1956, but the tag underneath refers to her Playboy centerfold appearance in January 1955. Obviously, this is not the photo that appeared in Playboy, in which she is nude except for a Santa hat. That photo can be found in Karen Essex and James L. Swanson, Bettie Page: The Life of a Pin-Up Legend, page 141. Jim Deutsch (talk) 18:46, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I've heard she graduated from a bible college[edit]

I've heard she graduated from a bible college.

Neither Peabody College or Vanderbilt University are Bible colleges. Page did become very religious after she ended her modelling career. -- llywrch 8 July 2005 20:09 (UTC)
She did attend various bible colleges after she quit modeling, now I cannot speak to if she graduated or not. [1][2]FLJuJitsu 15:01 15 Sept 07

Bettie's hometown, childhood abuse[edit]

A recent LA Times profile about Bettie Page says she was born in Jackson, Tennessee, more than 100 miles southwest of Nashville (about an hour northeast of Memphis). It also discusses her early family life, saying that she was the oldest girl among six children and Bettie disclosing that her father molested all three of his daughters.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bettie11mar11,0,4194244.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The site that touts itself as the "official" Bettie Page site (http://BettiePage.com) lists her birthplace as "Nashville, TN" -- not Jackson (as the above user stated) nor Kingsport (as the article states). I think the article should reflect her "official" site's information. Agree or disagree? --TiffyBeth 09:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Both the official site and Playboy.com state Nashville, so I'm inclined to run with them. RandomEcho 13:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Everywhere I've read states her birthplace as Nashville, Tennessee. I've changed the article to reflect this and added a citation. Kaldari 18:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Someone changed her birthplace to Kingsport in two of the three places it is mentioned, so I switched them back to Nashville - Foetusized (talk) 05:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: abuse: several news articles (including NYT obit) state that her father molested her and her sisters, but nothing in the article about this. Has there been a discussion about it and I'm not seeing it? 165.189.169.190 (talk) 18:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd always heard she was from Kingsport- dating back even to before the internet and wikipedia. Then again, I was born in Kingsport. Any way we can verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.89.51.191 (talk) 12:45, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, Googling for
"bettie page" kingsport
gives lots of hits, some supporting Kingsport and some not. As per the comments above, it's probably best to stick with Nashville, as listed in the official sites. Best, CliffC (talk) 18:21, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

GA Re-Review and in-line citations[edit]

Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 05:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Miss New York 1951 Runner-up?[edit]

The low-budget film "Dark Angel: Bettie Page" claims Bettie was the runner-up in the 1951 Miss New York beauty pageant. Can anyone provide any information/confirmation of this? Jca2112 20:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Slaughterhouse 5[edit]

"Montana Wildhack, a character from the novel Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut, may have been modeled after Bettie Page" - any evidence for this? BarryNorton 18:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

As per the Good Article review filed on this article, it has been delisted in a 4 to 0 vote, for lack of being well-referenced, dramatic writing style, smallish lead, and a trivia section which isn't very good. Review archived here: Wikipedia:Good article review/Archive 14 Homestarmy 13:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup and linked article creation[edit]

I'll lend a hand to this article and do some cleaning. I've also found copies of some of the movies in her filmography, so I'll be making pages for them as well. Help is appreciated. DasBub 04:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

More Cleanup[edit]

The "The Years out of the Spotlight" section was just atrocious - full of grammatical and spelling errors, going between present and past tenses, and chronologically out of order. I've cleaned this section up and fixed the errors. 72.185.43.62 07:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Ambiguous sentence[edit]

Under the heading "The years out of the spotlight", near the end is a sentence that ends, "...photographer Bunny Yeager swindled the filmmakers out of releasing pictures of Page unless they paid her." The nearest film mentioned is The Notorious Bettie Page. Does this mean that Yeager refused to release pictures of Page for the film unless she was paid? If so, "swindled" seems like the wrong word. What about, "...and photographer Bunny Yeager refused to release pictures of Page for the film until she was paid." --KSnortum (talk) 06:35, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Declining health[edit]

I've been hearing/reading gossip-y reports that, sadly, Bettie has been steadily declining in health since Dec 07. See here and here. I haven't found any substantial news report of this so it may or may not be true, but apparently she is struggling with pneumonia and a kidney infection. I certainly hope this is not true, but maybe someone with knowledge of this could incorporate this news into the article? 70.189.71.101 (talk) 03:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

More on health[edit]

Being a Southern California resident, I have heard word of Page's hospitalization due to injuries inflicted, in part by herself, reportedly symptomatic of mental defect in the forms of depression and paranoia. Her injuries have, for the time being, left her paralyzed.

Related to Bronk & Suvari?[edit]

New user Junemarlan keeps adding

"Page was a great-aunt of comedian/writer Benjy Bronk and a cousin of the mother of actress Mena Suvari."

to the article, citing an issue of the defunct Jacksonville Journal from 1987. It's been removed several times, either as trivial[2] or as dubious.[3] I'm interested to know whether there's a consensus on inclusion and whether anyone has an alternative source for this info. -- Skarl 15:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Seriously. What do you think? The gratuitous mention of any Howard Stern related character (outside specific Howard Stern related material) is highly dubious. Even if the article (which is conveniently non accessible) did mention some relationship, it is indeed trivial. How does the mention of an obscure writer on a show obsessed with just such incongruous mentions add to the article? Caligulathegod (talk) 16:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? I didn't know what to think, which is why I opened up a discussion on this talk page.
The editor concerned has been warned of 3RR, with an additional explanation of the rule. If they choose to add the info in again today, I suggest they be reported. -- Skarl 16:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I have just reported User:Junemarlan for a WP:3RR violation at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring – ukexpat (talk) 18:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Benjy is famous for messing around with Wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.77.154.39 (talk) 16:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out. It's good to know that some editors are aware that Stern's show is not so high-profile outside the US. -- Skarl 16:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Part of the shtick of the Howard Stern Show is prank calling television and radio shows, gratuitous mentions of same, etc. Can we have a limited lock on the page to prevent new users from editing? This person has started creating new accounts to vandalize more. Caligulathegod (talk) 16:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
If more socks/IPs turn up to do bad things to the article, a request at WP:RPP should do the trick. -- Skarl 17:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Cause of death[edit]

Sources disagree regarding whether she died of a heart attack or pneumonia. This article states she had both, but is not clear if it was the MI, pneumonia, or both, that actually caused her death. Can there be some clarification, other than the MI deaths category? P Cezanne (talk) 20:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

There is probably no way of knowing, this soon after her death, exactly which of her medical conditions caused her death -- Foetusized (talk) 23:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Length of career[edit]

Would it be worth noting in the article that she sadly spent longer in the "career" of being a mental health institution inmate than as a model? From the article she spent about six years as a model, but nine or ten years as an inmate. One wonders if she would have avoided if she had not been a model, or if the psychological burden of the government hostility pushed her over the edge. 89.242.157.247 (talk) 14:44, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Short answer: No. Long answer: No, being hospitalised is a result of a medical condition and is not a career. – ukexpat (talk) 17:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Acute schizophrenia[edit]

Someone contested that this notion exists. This textbook should make it clear that it is a commonly used terminology. (Davidson's principles & practice of medicine, 2006, ISBN 0443100578, page 243). Xasodfuih (talk) 05:49, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Inaccuracy: Kefauver Senate hearings[edit]

The US Senate committee actually known as the Kefauver Committee was another one investigating organized crime, and was officially known as the Senate Special Committee to Investigate Crime in Interstate Commerce. The hearings which targeted pornography, erotica and the corruption of minors were not part of Kefauver's main career foci, i.e. organized crime, monopolies etc. Oops editing to sign UC232 (talk) 03:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Corrected for verified actual name of "Kefauver Hearings". UC232 (talk) 05:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Naked Picture[edit]

Is there any real reason to show a picture of her topless? You can find that on a Google search. There's no real reason to have her naked body in this article 99.190.231.3 (talk) 19:57, 14 September 2011 (UTC)BeaBryant

Because it is an iconic image of her appearance as a Playboy centerfold. Because it provides some balance in presenting the modeling that she did, to go with the bondage photo above it. Because Wikipedia is not censored. -- Foetusized (talk) 12:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
It's also rather tame by modern standards. And to be blunt, it's what she was known for. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:04, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

BeaBryant, I refer you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored 64.201.203.3 (talk) 17:54, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Referring to NOTCENSORED is not an answer. The question was "Is there any real reason for the nude photo?" To answer with NOTCENSORED amounts to saying "The reason we posted the photo is because we can." In actual fact, there has not been a good reason listed here. Out of curiosity, I checked the pages for several other Playboy Playmates and found no nude photos. Showing her in the nude doesn't exactly clarify anything about her, especially since there are heaps of photos of her from playboy that are not nudes. Frankly, it looks like the reason this particular photo was chosen (and is being defended) is to push the limits of what people can get away with under NOTCENSORED. Eventually, the Jenna Jameson page (which, like other playboy models and porn stars, has no nude photos) will have a close up of her being penetrated, just "because we can." Rugbyhelp (talk) 13:38, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

File:Betty Page in Bizarre Magazine.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Betty Page in Bizarre Magazine.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012
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So who took the nude photos?[edit]

If Klaw never photographed Bettie nude, where do all the nude photos of Bettie from that period come from? Other photographers who just happened to photograph her in the same attire she wore for Klaw, and posed in the same locations? Are they all fakes? My impression was that she also posed nude for Klaw but was never photographed nude with a man -- and never in any type of sexual activity. Perhaps those of you who are experts in this area can fill in the blanks. Thanks. {71.22.47.232 (talk) 11:02, 22 January 2012 (UTC)}

File:Bettie Page in Bizarre Magazine.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Bettie Page in Bizarre Magazine.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012
What should I do?

Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Bettie Page in Bizarre Magazine.jpg)

This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:52, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Measurements[edit]

The official Bettie Page website gives her measurements as 36-23-35 (http://www.bettiepage.com/facts/index.html) which seems more correct than what the Wiki article currently has. 32" is probably an under-bust measurement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.77.241.114 (talk) 19:53, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

  1. ^ http://www.jesus21.com/content/page/index.php?s=bettie_page
  2. ^ http://www.cultsirens.com/page/page.htm