Talk:Bidzina Ivanishvili

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nationality[edit]

Why Russian? According to the indicated source he's Georgian. –BruTe Talk 08:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

discordant accounts[edit]

“Boris Ivanishvili (born 1956 in Chorvila) is a Georgian oligarch with a net worth reported to be 8 billion dollars. ”

“In march 2010, he ranked 167th in 2010 Forbes List of billionaires, with a net worth 4.8 billion dollars.”

I think, 4.8 billions are more certain. Borbolia777 (talk) 12:48, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

It is BIDZINA not BORIS.[edit]

Please do change the name. Ivanishvili's name is Bidzina not Boris. --Georgianჯორჯაძე 14:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll create a pre-formatted discussion on your behalf. I think the proposal has merits, but it is not straighforward. There is no need to hurry. After several days an administrator will arrive and close the discussion. No such user (talk) 16:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Boris IvanishviliBidzina Ivanishvili – "Bidzina" is his birth name, and, more importantly, the name he primarily identifies with: his home page is http://ivanishvilibidzina.com/eng, with "Bidzina" prominently in the header. Apparently, Boris was a nickname or an exonym during his Russian days, but there is no real reasons why would we prefer it now. Google test reports 1.7 million hits for "Bidzina Ivanishvili" (with quotes) vs. 0.5 million for "Boris Ivanishvili."

On reflection, I'm moving the page back and withdrawing the RM. It was originally at "Bidzina" and unilaterally moved by Gelenvi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) on February 12. Per WP:BRD, the onus is on them to prove their reasons. I've already make an argument above. No such user (talk) 16:50, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks guys. Perfect. --Georgianჯორჯაძე 21:04, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Per WP:COMMONNAME, it might should be Boris: that's what he's called in Forbes (and Die Welt), which may therefore be what he's best know as in English. But I don't know one way or another, so without anyone pushing for that name, we're probably fine as is. — kwami (talk) 22:09, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Who CARES what Forbes says, THIS IS NOT HIS NAME. Does forbes know better what his name is than himself?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geodream (talkcontribs) 08:28, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Gelenvi "pushes" for the Boris name. The article originally was at Bidzina. No such user (talk) 10:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

The only reason he goes by Bidzina on his website and elsewhere is because he does not want people to associate name Boris with Russia, political agent of which Ivanishvili is often accused of being. His birth name is Boris and is very commonly known as such. I don't know how you checked google but I just checked using quotation marks for exact matches and Bidzina Ivanishvili came up with 106,000 [1]while Boris Ivanishvili came up with 402,000.[2]--Gelenvi (talk) 01:40, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

It is quite rude to change the title, or make substantial changes, while the discussion is ongoing. This comes out as edit warring. Per WP:BRD, the first time you're reverted, you were supposed to start the discussion on the talk page.
Re Google searches, click on your first link gives me "About 1,880,000 results (0.56 seconds)", while the second gives "About 420,000 results (0.32 seconds)". Since Google recently plays silly "I-know-what-you-want-based-on-your-IP" games, I would ask Kwami to triple-check. Also, you haven't proven yet your assertion that "Boris is his birth name". According to the article, he was born in Georgia, so a Georgian name would be more logical.
@Kwami, it is true that some English RS use "Boris", but some also use "Bidzina", e.g. Telegraph [3] or Guardian [4]. He did use both names (although he seems to prefer "Bidzina" now), and they are probably both acceptable titles, but we shouldn't tolerate apparent ethnic-motivated edit warring: I have a hunch that this article should come under purview of WP:DIGWUREN. No such user (talk) 10:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I thought the google results where enough of a reason to revert and I do not see how IP's would change that. In any case, I do not agree that Bidzina would be a more logical name in Georgia. He was born in the USSR and there are plenty of people in Georgia who have Russian names. In fact, very few of the names used in Georgia are really Georgian.--Gelenvi (talk) 16:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Hey Gelenvi, where are you from? And what do you know about Georgian names. I doubt you don't. It's Bidzina not Boris. It is Bidzina Ivanishvili and not some Boris. Ivanishvili made his business in Russia mostly so it was hard to remember the name Bidzina and in Russia thats why he is known by that name. But it doesn't mean it's Boris. It's Bidzina Ivanishvili. Revert the changes back and make it Bidzina Ivanishvili again. When you don't know something you shouldn't stick your nose into other country's business my friend. --Georgianჯორჯაძე 23:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
GeorgianJorjadze, ena daimokle ra...you are not the ultimate authority on all things Georgian on wikipedia just because you have more free time on your hand to go about different Georgia-related pages and fill them with your personal views of things. I know that Bidzina is not same as Boris, its merely a likeness of the name that he adopted to highlight his Georgianness.--Gelenvi (talk) 23:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
ვახ, რა კაცი, რა კაცი. მანანა გამოჩნდი? I want to suggest Wiki Administrators to delete this sock puppet. Please, check this user. Previously he/she was this one and edit-warred with me in the past. This is his/her previous account. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mananabliadze Admins, check out this user's IP address and then block this sock puppet. And put Bidzina back. --Georgianჯორჯაძე 23:47, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Your baseless accusations do not change the fact that your claims on Boris Ivanishvili's name are unsubstantiated, as confirmed by the names usage in English. I suggest you read the rest of the posts before making me repeat what has been said many times. I also do not appreciate you calling me names in Georgian.--Gelenvi (talk) 01:11, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

It is BIDZINA not Boris! Change it now. This user above me seems to be another Georgiano-phobe. I guess who he/she might be but let him/her be. Nothing changes his/her being here, just this small kinds of probs. --Georgianჯორჯაძე 20:31, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

On GBooks, I can confirm 17 books with the name "Boris Ivanishvili", mostly in English but also in French, Spanish, and Italian, but only one with "Bidzina Ivanishvili". The books are about wealth or economics (apart from one on Putin), and most describe him personally with a word like oligarch, banker, or millionaire, so I believe they're all about this Ivanishvili, and not someone else with the same name. It would seem therefore that "Boris" is more common in English-language sources, and therefore per WP:COMMONNAME should be the name of the article.

However, it would seem that he prefers "Bidzina". That is what his website uses.[5] I'm not familiar with the rules for biographies of living people, which might override COMMONNAME. I'll ask over there.

But the personal attacks on this page are ridiculous. You sound like a bunch of children fighting in a sand box. Instead of attacking each other, present the evidence for the article. — kwami (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

The Economist used 'Boris' in 2008 but 'Bidzina' in 2011. Of the books, 'Boris' appears up to 2010; the only hit for 'Bidzina' is in 2011. In a Google news-archive search, it's 2 for Boris vs. 68 for Bidzina. It seems that Bidzina is now more common, and it's not as though he's so well-known that his old name would override that. At WP:BLPN, they recommend 'Bidzina', so that's what I'll go with. I'll lock the article to prevent any more edit warring. If you want to move it back, make a formal request. — kwami (talk) 23:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

More info[edit]

There's a long profile and interview in the New Republic [6]. Onanoff (talk) 19:09, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Question[edit]

Will his Georgian nationality be restored since he is designated as Prime Minister ? Otherwise he is not eligible for the post.

Siyac 20:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siyac (talkcontribs)

Bidzina Ivanishvili has no Georgian citizenship, it was never restored after he was stripped of it. http://dfwatch.net/ivanishvili-is-still-not-a-georgian-citizen-22308 Article should be ammended. Magradze (talk) 10:21, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Expansion[edit]

This article is tiny. Georgians, certainly this can be expanded upon? Interlaker (talk) 18:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC)