Talk:Big Brother (Kanye West song)

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Good articleBig Brother (Kanye West song) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 15, 2023Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 12, 2023.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the hook and concept of the song "Big Brother" was conceived by Kanye West in an elevator ride?

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GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Big Brother (Kanye West song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zmbro (talk · contribs) 22:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Got it. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 22:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead[edit]

  • I made a few template adjustments but otherwise the infobox looks good
  • Could we mention the significance behind the tribute (i.e. mentor)?
  • I'm wondering if we could combine the fact that the song is a tribute to Jay-Z and because of that "examines the complexities of his friendship". To me having the two sentences separated feels odd when they both could easily be combined.
  •  Not done the sentence is already long enough on its own; adding this would create a run-on. --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should you mentioned "Encore" being a Jay-Z song and not a West song?
  •  Done if this works? --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Background[edit]

  • Images should not use px per WP:IMAGESIZE
  • First paragraph is mostly ok but it's written like a narrative. I'd reword some things to make it less like a story (I was told this during the GA review for "Ultralight Beam"). Remember, we don't need EVERY detail (I gotta keep that in mind for my own articles tbh)
  • Example: "Toomp flew from New York to Atlanta so he could remake the beat, re-arranging certain notes and crafting a new melody, before flying back to the state." Do we need to know that he flew to Atlanta or just that the beat was remade in Atlanta?
  • ""Big Brother" was produced by Toomp, standing as the sole track on the record not to have production by West." Because of the preceding sentence, this reads like it was written beforehand and tacked on. We can get away with something like "Toomp received full production credit, making "Big Brother" the only track on Graduation not to have production by West."
  • "He co-wrote the song with Toomp, with West intending it as a tribute to his mentor and fellow rapper Jay-Z,"  "He co-wrote the song with Toomp as a tribute to his mentor and fellow rapper Jay-Z,"
  • "concept was conceived while West was riding an elevator"  "concept was conceived by West during an elevator ride"
  • swap the "When asked for his opinion on the song" and "In January 2012," sentences
  •  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe Jay-Z's reaction to the song should be stated immediately after the tribute part instead of in the next paragraph? The content of this song feels like a double-edged sword in that its lyrics and why it was written basically go hand in hand
  •  Done if this switch works? --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jay-Z felt rather emotional after listening, while Williams recalled that the rapper realized his influence on the song" there's a much easier way of saying this. Maybe "Jay-Z felt emotional after realizing he was the subject."?
  • similar to "Good Life", there's an awful lot of "recalling" and "remembering". I'd tone it down and just tell it as is. Stuff like "He later said in July 2013" is totally fine but others like almost the entire "Speaking of his reaction [...] witness the theme" part feels unnecessarily convoluted.
  • Do commas go after years in American English?—I've been writing Brit articles for so long I basically forgot lol—If so "August 20, 2007 at the" is missing one
  • "West went on to play" stuff like this can easily just be "West played"
  • what ever happened with The-Dream remix? Any other info? If not remove it from the lead as to me it's not notable enough for that.
  •  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Composition and lyrics[edit]

  • I need some clarity on the Chris Martin thing. Does "they had a collaboration" refer to "Homecoming"? And who is criticizing who? And over what?
  •  Partly done mentioned "Homecoming" but doesn't the criticizing part after West's acknowledgment make this clear? --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Release and reception[edit]

  • "that the song is covered in through his admiration for Jay-Z" feels superfluous; I'd say remove the whole thing
  • for Drumming's review, is "which "can't come soon enough"" referring to "Big Brother"? It currently reads like it's referring to the "strained relationship", which makes no sense to me
  • Is there a reason why "a columnist for The Guardian" isn't specified when in the source the she is specified?
  • I feel many of these individual reviews can be summarized simply. Giving everyone's opinion about liking the message feels like overkill.

Live performances[edit]

  • Like the first one, images should not use px per WP:IMAGESIZE
  • Why is the concert Rihanna restated here when it's already stated above? Choose one or the other
  • "the two repeated this routine during West's set at JAM'N 94.5's annual concert, with them performing the track together in full"  "the two performed the full track together during West's set at JAM'N 94.5's annual concert"

Other versions[edit]

  • "taking it in turns to rap" what? Are you saying they rapped back and forth? If so remove this because as a duo I would assume that.
  • "dedicated to rapper Eminem, the label's founder"  "dedicated to label founder and rapper Eminem"
  • "In the song, Bobby"  "In his rendition, Bobby"
  • "on March 19, 2012 with" comma after 2012?
  • the first sentence of the second para feels super convoluted

Credits and personnel[edit]

Charts[edit]

  • good

References[edit]

  • Copyvio is good at 19.4%
  • On my screen refs 4 and 10 are both red links, indicating unreliability. I've also never heard of MEAWW and B High TV and they don't strike me as reliable; and considering the latter is a YT link I'd try to find something better.
  • The about page of Meaww shows it has offices in both India and the US, as well as being an independent company that was founded by two people before going through to an editor-in-chief and managing editor, also there are multiple staff writers if you see the articles. As for the YouTube one, the channel is verified and Toomp is included in the interview. --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lots of |author parameters and a few |first and |last ones. Minor, but keep it consistent.
  •  Done apart from the ones where I can't because there's no full names --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref 29 missing location
  • Why is ref 34 not in a template?
  • This is a source added back when Wayback was formatted differently and I don't see the need to change it when it is equally accesible. --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why do some websites have locations but others not? (i.e. Guardian and Observer). They're not really necessary
  • Well it depends on if the sources list one, obviously... --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would without a doubt archive the sources dating back 10+ years
  • Inconsistent date format on ref 40
  •  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Final thoughts[edit]

  • Overall not too bad. Once my points are addressed I'd be happy to pass. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 01:30, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Zmbro I have covered everything, any differences getting in the way or can this now pass? --K. Peake 09:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 21:23, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(
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Improved to Good Article status by Kyle Peake (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 21:04, 18 January 2023 (UTC).[reply]

  • New enough GAN. QPQ present. Hook facts check out and are in article. No textual issues and no copyvio. Good to go. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:01, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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