Talk:Bill Bruford

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Former good article nominee Bill Bruford was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
December 11, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed
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The following has been noted regarding this article: Has good refs, needs a lot more in-text citations for B or GA
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Bruford band[edit]

Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention his late '70s band Bruford ?

-- Vanieter, 18:35, December 26th.

Go for it. I'm more of a King Crimson fan rather than a Bill Brofurd fan. I only worked on this page because it was sad to see such a fine drummer without an article in the Wikipedia.

-- Robertoalencar 12:04, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)

Well, time to read up on him I guess, although I'm no music historian.

And yay for King Crimson.

-- Vanieter 12:13, Dec 30, 2003 (-500)

Melodic drumming[edit]

I'm not sure if I should try to get this across here or write a new article about it, but I was trying to somewhat emphasize his melodic and electronic drumming by referencing the song Waiting Man. I think I'll probably just write a new article about melodic drumming.

-- Robertoalencar 18:02, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)

Birthdate[edit]

This page used to refer to Bruford's birthdate as being in 1948. Currently it says 1949, although I've found other sources which cite 1950 as the date. Any final word?

70.162.114.68

That's the date given at All Music. Don't know how definitive this is. What sources disagree? --Flag of Washington, D.C..svg D.M. (talk) 08:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
According to his official website, Bruford was born in 1949. I hope this puts this debate to rest. --Flag of Washington, D.C..svg D.M. (talk) 02:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

In my lengthy experience, official websites, autobiographies, etc., are the least reliable source for a correct birth date. See the following as supporting 1948 - [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8].

Derek R Bullamore 11:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

More, more, more[edit]

I put in the interview quotes, and some headers, but now the page looks incredibly short. It really needs a lot more about King Crimson, as he played with them for longer than with Yes. Earthworks needs more, more, more... andreasegde 11:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Photos[edit]

I seem to have a problem in understanding which photos can be borrowed for Wiki. Can anyone help with photos for the Bill Bruford page? It´s beginning to look a little too black and white.

andreasegde 16:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

King Crimson[edit]

The section on King Crimson Again is ambiguous and a little confusing. The "double trio" only refers to the 1995-1996 Thrak-era Crimson; the era comprising Discipline, Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair was a quartet consisting of Bruford, Fripp, Tony Levin and Adrian Belew.

Bruford specifically left Yes to join King Crimson. The quote that he "spent a lot of time waiting for the phone to ring, and wondering if it ever would" (immediately preceding the King Crimson section) appears to refer to what happened after Crimson disbanded in 1974. Bondegezou 17:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Re-write[edit]

I am re-writing it (after being so advised) to paraphrase Bruford´s words, so as not to be accused of plagiarism. andreasegde 13:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, it's not plagiarism so long as the quotes are attributed. I'm more concerned that several lengthy quotes from the same article might be a copyright violation, though the chance of getting sued is small. The most serious problem with the lengthy quotes is that it isn't encyclopedic style. It was reading more like an interview than an encyclopedia entry. Thanks for the useful edits you've done so far on this. --dm (talk) 15:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'm going to attempt to improve this article the best I can after reading the assessment of the article as B-class. I can see some stuff which will be quite easy to improve.--HisSpaceResearch 22:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Done it now.--HisSpaceResearch 00:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Nominated the article as good, following Talk:Bill_Bruford/Comments.--HisSpaceResearch 02:54, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Nice one, HisSpaceResearch. As I have been learning a lot recently about in-line citations (which are a lot easier than you think) I believe that this article needs more, but properly formatted. Take a look at the KLF page, or Paul McCartney. --andreasegde 19:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

GA[edit]

HisSpaceResearch, I can forsee some problems (and comments) coming about the lack of citations. If you need any help, please feel free to contact me. --andreasegde 21:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm looking at the article right now to help with the GA review. (Also, I'm listening to One of a Kind right now, but that's a little less relevant.) A couple comments:

  • Where's the reference that says that all of the members of Yes lived in the same house?
  • The section about the Speakeasy club in London looks like a pretty close paraphrase of the cited reference -- in fact, a lot of the phrasing is pretty similar. I'd recommend either quoting it outright, or rephrasing it so it isn't such a direct copy.
  • What was the reason why Bruford and Holdsworth left UK? (This is mainly for my curiosity -- it isn't a requirement for the GA review.)
  • Didn't the 80's version of King Crimson break up in 1984 or so, after Three of a Perfect Pair? The article says they broke up in 1994, and then reformed again in 1994.

Other than these issues, I think the article could be promoted to GA status. I'll keep an eye on the article and re-review it later. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 17:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... I'm looking at the article again now and am thinking that portions of it may need a rewrite. The main problem is that there are far too many quotes.--HisSpaceResearch 12:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

GA Nomination failed[edit]

  • Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/MUSTARD/Images
    • Guideline 1.1:"The {{album cover}} tag establishes fair use only in an article about the album in question." Note that this requirement is arguably not applicable to WP:GA, since WP:WIAGA (6c) requires only the existence of a fair-use rationale.
  • WP:WIAGA
    • Guideline 2.b:"The citation of its sources using an accepted form of inline citation is required" Many long stretcheds of this article are uncited, leaving you open to concerns about WP:CV. This is perhaps the article's primary flaw.
  • Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/MUSTARD/References
    • Guideline 3:"Direct quotes, especially from living people, should always be specifically cited to a source" Many direct quotes are unsourced; that's a big no-no.
  • WP:LEAD
    • The lead section concludes with YES; doesn't include later work. The bit about the Boston Bruins does not belong in the lead.

--Ling.Nut 06:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bill Bruford - One of a Kind.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Bill Bruford - One of a Kind.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bruford.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Bruford.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Yes - Yes.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Yes - Yes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 12:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

New related interview[edit]

I've recently done an interview with contemporary composer Colin Riley, who is currently collaborating with Bruford, which may provide some useful material for this article. I didn't want to add it myself given my COI. Bondegezou (talk) 13:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolute Elsewhere[edit]

Bruford recorded a vinyl album called In search of ancients gods with the band Absolute elsewhere (look on prog archives)but at as been erease from is wikipage can somebody tell me why ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.205.122 (talk) 05:48, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing you meant to write "it has been erased from its wikipage"... is that correct? If so, what do you mean by "its wikipage"?--Martin IIIa (talk) 12:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes that what i meant to write, by wikipage i'm talking about the page Bill Bruford on wikipedia wich use to display his work with Absolute Elswhere, an unknow but wonderfull band. I lack the skills on wikipedia to rewrite it myself so if a good soul can do it it would be nice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.205.122 (talk) 20:40, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Ah, okay. If you're just referring to the discography information on the Absolute Elsewhere album, that's still in there, under "session work". I moved it there because the reviews on www.gepr.net say that Bruford was a sessionist on the album, not an actual member of Absolute Elsewhere. If that is inaccurate, please say so and I'll move it back. If you're referring to something more than just the discography information, do you have any recollection of when you last saw it on the page? I browsed a bit of the page history but couldn't find anything on Absolute Elsewhere beyond the discography bit.--Martin IIIa (talk) 01:40, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Bruford: Separate article?[edit]

The band "Bruford:" technically, isn't that a band that a band that happens to be named after him and not really a solo project? If that section theoretically were expanded, and no, I did not just volunteer :), shouldn't it be more appropriate as a standalone page? Dementia13 (talk) 14:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed! I think the subject matter as it stands is more confusing and by doing so, it should make the topic of the articles clearer. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 21:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Too ,many sections[edit]

I think the coherence of the biography here is the separation of all the various groups in which Bruford participated. Often, I have the same feeling about making sections for every album in other articles. There must be some way to more easily, yet chronologically develop a musician's article. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 21:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)