Talk:Bill O'Reilly (political commentator)

Joy Behar/Whoopi Goldber

Maybe it's just me, but this section seems rather irrelevant. It wasn't a lawsuit, and it really wasn't a big deal for more than a few days. Vyselink (talk) 21:31, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree. In fact, the whole "Controversy" section could be described that way. 138.162.128.55 (talk) 19:30, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Discrepency in years taught high school

The article says he graduated from Marist College in Poughkeepsie, New York in 1971. It says that after graduating from Marist, he moved to Miami, Florida, where he taught English and history at Monsignor Pace High School from 1970 to 1972. Huh? 5Q5 (talk) 18:51, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I added a "dubious" flag to the line in question, which is sourced from a detractor's book. 5Q5 (talk) 15:28, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

BLP noticeboard report

Hi - please be aware there is a discussion at the noticeboard regarding some disputed content and join in the discussion at the BLP noticeboard - here - thanks - Youreallycan (talk) 18:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

The resolution of the BLP noticeboard discussion was: "Yes, Bill O'Reilly is widely considered a conservative." JamesMLane t c 12:38, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: Positions diverge from conservative orthodoxy

O'Reilly is widely considered a conservative commentator,[6][7] though some of his positions diverge from conservative orthodoxy (in particular his opposition to the death penalty[8][9])

O'Reilly's position on the death penalty has nothing to do with whether or not he is a conservative and the two sources used to say it does, say nothing about conservatism and the death penalty. In fact, the only one that could possibly be misconstrued as supporting this statement is an opinion from Rebecca Leung in the 60 minutes article.[1] She says:

At the 2004 Republican National Convention, the "old boys club" – including Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich – welcomed him with open arms...Some folks would expect this reception for O'Reilly, a favorite of conservatives. But what you don't expect are his views, which sound more like they're coming from a Democrat...O'Reilly says he's pro gun control, against the death penalty, and supports civil unions, not just for homosexuals, but "for everybody."

Sorry, but that's simply not good enough to claim that "some of his positions diverge from conservative orthodoxy". O'Reilly is against the death penalty not because he's leaning to the left or because he sympthasizes with Democrats, but because he's a Catholic social conservative and he agrees with the position of people like Pope John Paul II. These are conservative positions. Nevertheless, many American conservatives are pro-death penalty due to their embrace of religious conservatism, but not political conservatism. Their position rests solely on a biblical justification, not on a political position. This is doubly ironic since it's a position that not only contradicts their religious pro-life stance, but also contradicts their core conservative tenets that mistrust government because government tends to lessen freedom, and a government that kills its people is one that requires more money and is prone to making errors. With the serious problem of wrongful execution (130+ cases in the U.S.), the evidence for exonerated death row inmates, and the established fact that the death penalty does not deter crime, one would expect conservatives to be on the front lines of putting an end to capital punishment. However, they are not, because they let their religious beliefs get in the way of the facts. Coincidentally, O'Reilly's own strand of religious conservatism is in agreement with his political conservatism. The problem here is that people are confusing the two and assuming that conservatism is by its very nature pro-capital punishment when in fact, its core ideology by definition, is against giving any government the power of life and death over its people. O'Reilly's position on the death penalty, therefore, is consistent with his conservative beliefs. Viriditas (talk) 12:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

This one is a little tricky. He often says he opposes the death penalty, but he also has said on multiple occasions that he hopes certain people receive it. As you've said, pro-death penalty isn't really conservative orthodoxy. It's more of a Republican position. But he is factually not a registered Republican. I'm trying to think of a better way to word that statement. We could remove the "though some of his positions..." part, but I think this leads to another problem. Nobody agrees with every single plank of the GOP platform. And while he is generally considered a conservative, he is also definitely to the left of most other conservative commentators. I don't want a reader to get the impression that he's the same as a Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Could we go with something like, "While O'Reilly is widely considered a conservative commentator, he also tends toward centrism on some issues."? (I know that statement is laughably clumsy, but hopefully a better wordsmith than I could twist it into something reasonable.) Another option would be to flesh out the "political views" section a little better and move it there. I'm of the opinion that section is in pretty poor shape anyway. Sperril (talk) 05:20, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

For the record, O'Reilly's issues stem from his Catholic beliefs. Many conservatives could care less about the religeous aspect of the issues on the death penalty, for us it's a Constitutional issue. The 5th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States states that “no person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” This right was extended to the states by the 14th Amendment (1868). Therefore, to us it is obvious that with "due process" (which is left up to the various juristictions in accordance with the Constitution) then is is Constitutional to deprive a person of their life. SeanNovack (talk) 15:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

That's what I said above, however, it is not a constitutional issue for many conservatives in America, particularly those in the South, who take a biblical, punitive approach to deterring crime, which for the most part, does not work. Conservatives also support the prison–industrial complex and have little to no real interest in reducing crime rates as lower rates of crime hurt prison profits. Finally, the conservative record on upholding civil liberties is atrocious, particularly in the Supreme Court where civil liberties have been chipped away year after year by conservatives. Viriditas (talk) 20:22, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Mr. O'Reilly comes accross as a right-leaning populist. I've seen him argue with Neil Cavuto and Lauran Ingraham on their unbending pro-business, right-wing beliefs. The most interesting man in the world (talk) 16:20, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The opinion of others is irrelevant unless those specific sources are cited. He identifies himself as an independent and traditionalist. He also outright says he has some conservative views "which [he is] proud of." The word "widely" is a clear pov statement. Labeling him a certain way despite his statements defining his views so is a clear violation of BLP. Arnabdas (talk) 18:43, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Here, citing specific sources would mean providing a couple dozen references saying the same thing. There's no reason to do that. To say that he is "widely" considered a conservative is not POV, but is merely a fair characterization of the body of opinion. The community has considered and rejected the contention that this is a BLP violation. See Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Bill O'Reilly (political commentator). JamesMLane t c 12:48, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Questionable Style

This entire page reads like some sort of (auto)biography. Could this please be reviewed? Lord British (talk) 17:45, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Archiving fixed, hopefully

The archiving got a bit mixed up since someone added automatic archiving but neglected to change the parameters. Since many of the pages were less then 150K and the counter was 1, the bot slowly added content to many of the existing pages means they were a confusing mix of old and new. To fix this, I first reverted the bot additions. While not strictly necessary, I then combined the older archivings to be about 200K. I then added back the additions from archive 1 to the suitable archive page and proceeded until I had combined them all. I'm pretty sure I didn't lose anything, but not 100% sure. I also modified the archive parameters although it wasn't strictly necessary since it ended up it would be using the next empty archive page. Nil Einne (talk) 00:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Can't explain that

shouldn't there be something about the "You can't explain that" meme? 137.150.194.188 (talk) 05:53, 24 February 2012 (UTC)