Talk:Bill Simmons

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Former good article nominee Bill Simmons was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
December 20, 2010 Good article nominee Not listed
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Referencing?[edit]

There seems to be lots of praise for Simmons with his own books or web-articles used as sources!

" Simmons' writing in his columns is characterized by mixing sports knowledge,[14][22] erudite analysis,[22] clever prose,[22] comedy,[15][53] references to pop culture[15][14][23][54] including movies and television shows,[55] his non-sports-related personal life, his many fantasy sports teams,[23] video games,[23] and references to adult video.[25][49] His columns often mention trips to Las Vegas[56] or other gambling venues with his friends, including blackjack and sports gambling.[23][57]"

In those 2 sentences his own book is used as reference to support his: sporting knowledge, "erudite" analysis and clever prose. I don't want to start a flame war, but "clever prose", Bill Simmons?? He's hardly John Banville! and "erudite analysis"!! Really??? Don't get me wrong, his Book of Basketball is one of the better basketball books (and that's maybe an underestimation), but his style of engagement with the reader is of the "shock jock" variety. With facts and figures "bended" to fit his Celtics biased agenda (which I get is a running joke). Comedic? Subjectively perhaps. I would certainly propose that all claims and references about him and/or his book (and other work) referenced directly to him (or to his book) should be removed. Bullblade (talk) 18:10, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

I should add, it's not just those two sentences. Throughout the article there are positive claims and achievements about Simmons and they are nearly all taken from his own work. One thing you can't accuse Simmons' of is being afraid to talk/write about himself, a lot! But I don't think they are suitable references when written about himself! Bullblade (talk) 18:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

In relation to the above, Wikipedia does state that "Self-published sources" and "Self-published or questionable sources as sources on themselves" are unreliable. Looking back through the history of this page, this issue has been brought up before, with edits done and then reverted due to people sourcing his own material. There is now such a mass of self-referenced material that it makes it very difficult to revert to any one stage or start to edit or remove parts. Suggestions? Bullblade (talk) 19:32, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

After discussion (seeking advice) in Wikipedia IRC room, removed the self-referenced claims of "clever prose", etc. Sources other than "The Book of Basketball" (or anything else written by Simmons) requried before re-adding claims or reverting. Bullblade (talk) 21:13, 28 September 2013 (UTC)