Talk:Biometrics

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This article has nothing to do with Biometrics[edit]

BIOMETRICS IS A MATHAMATICAL SCIENCE THAT ATTEMPTS TO EQUATE THE RELATIONS IN THE BIOLOGICAL WORLD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.184.255.157 (talk) 13:06, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Possible useful sources[edit]

Below are a list of possible useful sources for this article (maybe).

  • John D Woodward Jr, Nicholas M. Orlance, Peter T. Higgins, 2003
Biometrics-Identity assurance in the information age
McGraw-Hill, USA
  • John Chirillo and Scott Blaul, 2003, Implementing biometric security
Wiley Publishing,Inc, USA
  • Biometrics Journal
International biometric society

Biometrics and arms.[edit]

Someone from USA should write a paragraph about biometry and gun control. For example, if all law enforcement firearms had palm readers or RFID tags against unauthorized use, two recent spree killing could have been prevented (the Fulton courtroom massacre and the Red Chippewa school massacre). Both places the madmen used police weapons. There would be no legal or constitutional problems with bio-authenticating weapons used by the authorities.

Reply - Guns work because they are simple. Guns have decreased in complexity over the past 100 years. There are multiple solutions to the problems you mention that do not involve biometry. googling for gun complexity biometric turned this up: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SmartGuns.htm#C.%20Reliability%20as%20The%20Key

What if the palm reader or RFID tag failed? What if the original owner needs someone else to use their gun? Sometimes people even forget to take off the safety, I can't image what would happen with more hurdles to firing. I can see this being useful in cases where criminals shoot police officers with their own sidearm, but in other situations this doesn't sound like a smart idea. 67.85.137.135 21:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Justification?[edit]

"and the most successful, human authentication via typing pattern (rhythm) recognition." What is the justification for this?

--Michael.R.Crusoe 07:30, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

Bio-Dynamic Signature (BDS)[edit]

worthy of includsion? found buzzword here.

Apparently the creation (trademarked???) of Dr. Daniel Lange (see above article for others involved).

Page layout[edit]

Is it against wikipedia rules to run a big URL through something like tinyurl to correct the horizontal scroll bar?

Sclozza 04:18, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

It looks cleaner and makes more sense to create a separate Wiki Article for Countries using Biometrics.

Octavius SV 07:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Biometric Discussion List[edit]

I found some interesting discussions on The Biometric Consortium's Discussion List see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/biometrics.html

Link is dead: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/biometrics.html - discussion list removed.

There is a city in Mexico called Leon that uses iris scan technology: Iris Scanners Create the Most Secure City in the World. Welcome, Big Brother http://www.fastcompany.com/1683302/iris-scanners-create-the-most-secure-city-in-the-world-welcomes-big-brother Goodbye 2010. Hello 1984. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.58.148.70 (talk) 20:51, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Former discussion list replaced by this forum: http://www.biometrics.org/forums/, according to http://www.biometrics.org/bulletinboard.php

Cleanup[edit]

United States- United States is a strong advocate of biometrics. As of 2005, it's moving to require biometric passport from its own and foreign citizens. The European Union has criticized it for causing unnecessary harm to civil liberties and privacy.

I don't think I need to say anything more. Recommended this article for copyediting. 67.162.225.236 02:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Spelling check (IchBin 09:01, 1 January 2006 (UTC))

I would recommend that the phrase "in time and attendance systems" in the section on Hand and Finger Geometry be expanded to explain what a time system is and how it relates to fingerprint and hand recognition. The other examples listed are sufficiently clear based on the context, but this one could use clarification. 137.122.14.20 (talk) 17:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Canadian passports[edit]

This section has been moved to Biometric passports as it is more relevant to that article. --apers0n 21:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Little comment on the usage of the word Biometrics[edit]

This word is in use since the early XIX century, with a meaning close to "application of exact sciences methodology to biological sciences", and there are books and periodicals from that time to prove it (one famous example among statisticians is the magazine Biometrika).

It is bigger than human biometrics security systems, and bigger than biostatistics, because includes, for an instance, applying experimental planning methods developed for electronic engineering to agricultural experiments, studies of Hardy-Weinberg Equilibrium (a population genetics problem which may be posed in terms of proportions) and Ethology (in the sense used in The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, a science that although of biological nature, draws freely from Game Theory).

I strongly believe that this page should be a disambiguation page.

--Lucas Gallindo 19:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, there is a whole field of science called biometrics which has nothing to do with identifying people. Domminico (talk) 18:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

== Should Biometrics really be used in todays unsafe lifestyle Biometrics:

  • Forget passwords
  • Forget pin numbers
  • Forget all security concerns — Preceding unsigned comment added by Safa aldin (talkcontribs) 15:58, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree that there should be a disambiguation page. This content should be on Biometrics_(Authentication) or Biometrics_(Information technology). References elsewhere to Biometrics which redirect to Biostatistics (e.g. in Biometrika) are chopping out an enormous branch of science. Unfortunately the IT nature of Wikipedia and the rest of the internet is slanting / biasing original definitions of topics towards recent/trendy/IT-related usages, so we might be fighting a losing battle here. segurador (talk) 13:06, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

please check validity of table[edit]

someone please check the validity of the following table:

Comparison of various biometric technologies, according to A. K. Jain

it seems to be tampered with. The table looked different a while ago

Joris

yes, it is, now it is more complete. The old one was taken from a document who had cropped part of the original version, I have found the original document (see the reference) and I have copied from there. Alessio Damato (Talk) 13:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Syntax/Semantics[edit]

Uses and initiatives

[edit] Brazil

Since the beginning of the 20th

[Semantics: this paragraph goes right from 1900 (the beginning of the 20th century) to 1999, without any intervening events, leading one to suspect the author meant the 21st century, when according to the reference at Dr. Vucetich, fingerprinted Brazilian ID cards existed before 1900]

century, Brazilian citizens have

[Syntax: Since/have?]

user ID cards. The decision by the Brazilian government to adopt fingerprint-based biometrics was spearheaded by Dr. Felix Pacheco at Rio de Janeiro, at that time capital of the Federative Republic. Dr. Pacheco was a friend of Dr. Juan Vucetich, who invented one of the most complete tenprint classification systems in existence. The Vucetich system was adopted not only in Brazil, but also by most of the other South American countries. The oldest and most traditional ID Institute in Brazil (Instituto de Identificação Félix Pacheco) was integrated at DETRAN [7] (Brazilian equivalent to DMV) into the civil and criminal AFIS system in 1999. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.39.198.126 (talk) 06:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR Consistency within articles[edit]

At present this article has a mixture of U.S and UK English, with occasional tussles over the odd word. My last attempt to harmonise/harmonize throughout was reverted. Any consensus as to which variant to use? Checking back, U.S. English has been the norm on this page. --Old Moonraker 21:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, trying again. This is just to achieve consistency through the article and not favoring one form of English over the other. --Old Moonraker 17:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Gigital photograph[edit]

Biometrics#Germany refers to a "gigital" photograph. This is the first time I've come across the phrase (and I don't want to fall into the WP:IDONTKNOWIT trap), but would a link or explanation be useful? It seems to apply to hi-res devices, so is it appropriate for this application at all? Or is it just a typo? --Old Moonraker 13:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

  • I'd say it's an obvious typo; I have changed it to "digital". - Mike Rosoft 11:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. --Old Moonraker 12:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Universality in Comparison of various biometric technologies table[edit]

Could someone please add a definition for the Universality column in the table? All the other fields are described, but I have no idea what that one means. 67.43.141.66 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Error in the table with A.K. Jains work on biometrics[edit]

The table has some errors, and the reference should be to another article, see http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/Publications/GeneralBiometrics/JainRossPrabhakar_BiometricIntro_CSVT04.pdf (page 12) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.226.143.206 (talk) 15:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Despite the comment, the colors in the last column are not reversed. 129.125.178.61 (talk) 13:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Gordon Brown (The Prime Minister)[edit]

Removed "Gordon Brown (The Prime Minister) has now given commercial sectors the go ahead for using biometric technology" from article, as not developing the article in a meaningful way. No reference given, but it may have been prompted by this piece of puffery from National Outsourcing Association (NOA), the UK’s trade association, dated two day ago. --Old Moonraker (talk) 14:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Possible WP:COPYVIO[edit]

Parts of this article within the "Physiological" section are a lift from GlobalSecurity.org, here. Their page has been in existence since at least August 2005, (archived [1]) and the material here was added after that date. Any reason why I shouldn't prune it? --Old Moonraker (talk) 22:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Removed. --Old Moonraker (talk) 11:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Significant Changes Needed[edit]

There are a few sections that are disproportionately long. I've moved the arguably notable research to an "emergent" section, but recommend that it be stricken or edited down to a single sentence per emergent technology. Biometric modalities should be discussed based upon deployment and robust research by many academics and professionals, not a limited number of academic research activities by one or a handful of individuals. A good rule of thumb is that if you're writing about a modality that isn't finger, face or iris, and your discussion is longer than theirs, the material is disproportionately long.

The technical sections of this article consist of a bit more than a stub, on top of which various contributers have pasted in abstracts and position papers for their pet projects. The description of the modalities needs strengthening, and the pet projects (cognitive and cancelable biometrics) need to be severely pruned, so that the widespread and accepted technologies receive the majority of discussion. I'll try to do that over the next few days, but it would help to have more veteran contributers check that I'm meeting a style and format appropriate for Wikipedia. 96.231.31.186 (talk) 10:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this in hand: much-needed improvements. The opening paragraph is wrong ("refers to" is deprecated in WP:UMD, but the phrase was there before you started) and I will look at this, unless someone gets there first. --Old Moonraker (talk) 10:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, please keep watching my back! I'm intending to completely strike the two sections regarding brain science research. They are unrelated to any operational biometrics, and checking the edit log they appear to be part of an anonymous user's spam of their research abstracts into various tangentially related articles. I also pruned the cancellable biometrics section considerably - the section describes a theoretical construct that doesn't actually exist in any real form, and was written as a self-contained position paper. Realistically that section shouldn't warrant more than a sentence, but I don't want to rip out too much content.
What's the criteria for killing a section that doesn't belong? Given that two paragraphs of incomprehensible semi-english were in the middle of an unrelated section, it doesn't look like we have enough biometric experts here to get much of a consensus. Is it okay to kill things that don't belong in my judgement? Do I have to justify my credentials in some way here? Drc500free (talk) 10:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The basis for the decision to delete the material is verifiability. If there isn't a reliable source it can go. If it's a fine call, the section could be marked with an {{unreferencedsection}} tag and left for a while to see if some decent references from independent, notable sources can be found.
It helps immensely to have a knowledgeable editor, but it follows that because everything is, in theory, transparently verifiable qualifications are absolutely not a requirement to contribute: the material stands or falls by the quality of its sources. --Old Moonraker (talk) 11:59, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough. What is it that has to be verified, though? One can certainly verify that a handful of academic research has been performed, but you can't verify that it has any impact on biometrics in practice. For instance, I could add a section to the article on automobiles discussing cognitive research on a system that can differentiate between thinking "left" and "right," stating that it's relevant because such a system could arguably be used to steer a car, and anyone could verify that the research has in fact been performed. ....

.... t 96.231.31.186 (talk) 06:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree about the cognitive research -- it does not belong here -- maybe a separate article, "Cognitive performance biometrics" could be created (along with a tag questioning if it's notable enough to be here at the top) and then linked to in the "See also" section. Or at very least, the section should be dramatically shortened. The vast majority of work in biometrics, as the word is commonly used, does not have anything to do with it -- so it shouldn't make up such a large portion of the article. Jrtayloriv (talk) 19:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that the last part in the introduction about the placement of the word 'voice' in the behavioural section a little bit unnecessary? Perhaps someone could put a short explanation in brackets next to 'voice' as it appears in the text instead? Nawalani (talk) 00:38, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

A red link in the see also section is associated with the following info....[edit]

--222.67.208.51 (talk) 07:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The see also section shouldn't contain redlinks. Verbal chat 09:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Francis Galton[edit]

This article should mention Francis Galton, the founder of Biometrics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.78.84 (talk) 17:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Concerning: It contains too many quotations for an encyclopedic entry.[edit]

Possibly, however it is important to accurately convey the motivation of those driving biometric adoption. If the number of quotes are reduced, the original message behind those drivers should be retained. I'm interested to hear your thoughts 84User. Benjamin Gittins (talk) 12:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

The quotes need paraphrasing, rather than necessarily reducing in number. My copy editing skills are low in that area but see my recent edit as an example of what is needed. See also Wikipedia:Copy-paste#What about quotes?. -84user (talk) 13:06, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
The quotes are not notable, and including them here is a violation of WP:DUE. There is plenty to write about this subject without having a dozen non-notable lengthy block quotes. Basically, this entire page needs to be re-written, preferably using scholarly literature, since plenty of it exists for this topic. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 14:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Physiological vs. physical[edit]

I have been editing this page as time permits and just noticed that the lead section splits biometric characteristics into 'physiological' and 'behavioral'. I have no problem with the latter category but I think that physical is a preferable term for the former. A while ago I added a citation for this part of the page (using one of Jain et al's texts) but, in retrospect, it isn't accurate because they discuss "the identity of an individual based on the physical, chemical or behavioral attributes of the person", and not physiology. Later in that same text there is reference to only "physical or behavioral characteristics". At any rate, I could find no reference to support the use of 'physiological' at all and was tempted to simply change it to 'physical' but thought it might be better to discuss it before changing the information. Anyone care to comment? — RB Ostrum. 18:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

In response to your comment, I came across an article by Weaver (2006) where the term 'physiological' is used to describe the second category of biometric characteristics. This is the reference:

Weaver, A. C. (2006). Biometric Authentication. Computer, 39 (2), 96-97.

I personally think the term 'physiological' has the connotation of pertaining to the biological function of parts of the body, whereas 'physical' is a more general reference to the body. For the purposes of this article, I agree with you and think that the term 'physical' might be more appropriate. Biometric authentication doesn't really measure the function of someone's iris, just its physical characteristics. Nawalani (talk) 00:21, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Accuracy of different biometric measures[edit]

I think it would be beneficial for the article to add some information about the accuracy of measuring different biometric characteristics. For instance, I have read that, since iris scans have more degrees of freedom, they have the potential to be more accurate than fingerprint scans (Weaver, 2006). I would also like to add data on the FAR's and FRR's of behavioural and physical characteristics. What does everyone think? Nawalani (talk) 00:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Changes to the Introduction[edit]

Hi everyone, I made some edits to the introduction in order to add more information about the concept of biometrics. I also attempted to make the writing flow more coherently, as it has been tagged as having the characteristics of a list and may benefit from being presented in prose. In the process, I also added two more citations from academic sources. Finally, I moved the comment at the end of the previous version of the introduction about voice recognition under note 2, as I felt that it did not fit with the scope of the article. Nawalani (talk) 23:45, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


Software for Biometrics[edit]

I think every one is looking to biometrics for security purpose. http://www.allwebid.com is the website gives biometric system to control all your online security issues. Aasad2013 (talk) 02:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aasad2013 (talkcontribs) 01:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Rename proposal[edit]

This should be named biomettics(Authentication), since biometrics is a branch of biostatistics that has little to do with what is said here, and has existed for decades before the arrival of biometrics as an authentication scheme. The article even has a link on top to the journal of biometrics, that is not about anything said in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.166.8.164 (talkcontribs) 16:57, 29 Oct 2013 (UTC)