Talk:Bisexuality

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Contents

[edit] Unreasonable Study

I am removing the study on percentages of people who identify themselves as bisexual. The numbers are absurdly low and can only reflect a flaw. No one needs to read this and assume they are in such an extreme minority. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.190.167 (talk) 09:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Evidently they're back. Do you know of any other valid, relevant research that backs up your claim, or are you just speaking from ideology? 66.234.220.231 (talk) 06:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Projects

Shouldn't this article be in Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sexology_and_Sexuality. 24.32.208.58 (talk) 02:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say yes; although homosexuality isn't within that project either, so perhaps it's left to LGBT studies? It seems, however, that both would apply. I'm going to add bisexuality to the philosophy wikiproject, which already contains the homosexuality article. Evolauxia (talk) 10:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bisexuality in Wicked?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.145.74 (talk) 10:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I've recently read through Gregory Maguire's Wicked myself and can't remember any bisexual characters (certainly no significant bisexual characters) appearing in the novel. I haven't read its sequel, Son of a Witch, though, and I suppose I could be forgetting about something, so I thought I'd ask here first before removing it. Oh, and while I'm commenting, this talk page could probably stand to be archived, but I'll leave that up to a more frequent editor of the article (I wouldn't want to accidentally archive an ongoing discussion or anything). —Mears man (talk) 04:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

maguire actually touches on "non-hetero" sexuality in a few of his books. While not as blatent as Son of a Witch (where Liir is checking out a guy's butt while away from his pregnant wife/girlfriend), the reference in Wicked is during the discussion Elphaba has with her father when she comes back to Munchkinland to visit. Frex talks briefly about the unusual relationship between him, Melena, and Turtle Heart - the telling quote is, "We shared him." -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 18:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


"Bisexuals in this sense may be attracted to more than one gender but only to one sex. For example, a male bisexual may be attracted to aspects of men and masculinity, but not to the male body." It seems odd that this would but mentioned but the other position, being attracted to a gender regardless of sex, is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.79.11.250 (talk) 16:39, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


Should Jenna Haze be an example on there or something? ~~Sealim~~ (talk) 16:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biasexuality

The term "Biasexuality" is a neologism, and not found in any of the scholarly literature. I have reverted someone who added it to the lede definition. Atom (talk) 17:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bisexuality does not encompass asexuality

In fact, it is a logical contradiction. Bisexuals are attracted to both sexes to some degree, whereas asexuals are not attracted to either sex. If they were, they wouldn't be "asexual." It's true that some people may identify themselves as asexual bisexuals, or asexual heterosexuals, or whatever, but it shouldn't be part of the definition. The clearest definition is what was here previously and can be found on many websites (e.g. https://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqbisexuality.html#A1: "Bisexuality means sexual or romantic attraction or behavior directed towards some members of more than one sex." --Jcbutler (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

This page defines bisexuality as only a sexual orientation, yet many section in this page do no deal with sexual orientation, but rather sexual relationships with both men and women. It seems in some instances bisexuality could be used to refer to a sexual orientation of someone attracted to both men and women or to someone who has sex with both men and women. This is similar to the definition used on the homosexuality page.I think we should use the same designation. This is also consistent with scientific articles such as A study of the married bisexual male: paradox and resolution. I think the current definition is incorrect, does not reflect what is in the article and should be changed to say something like:

Bisexuality refers to sexual behavior with[1] or attraction to people of both sexes, or to a bisexual orientation. As a sexual orientation, bisexuality refers to people who "can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex"; "it also refers to an individual’s sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them."[2] Joshuajohanson (talk) 22:28, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kudos

Despite the need for some improvements, Bisexuality is an excellent Wikipedia entry and I want to personally thank all the editors who have contributed to the page. From a personal perspective, as a psychologist, and as a writer, I am impressed with the sensitivity, sophistication, and well-crafted prose of the article. I appreciate your hard work. Markworthen (talk) 18:02, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Could someone with more skill/knowledge than me please remove the "[justincredible11] (jeff is super gay) 02:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)" insert at the beginning of the article. I can't seem to find where it's located in the edit page. Thanks. Farmercarlos (talk) 21:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Seems to have been taken care of. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bisexual novels - Science fiction

Though not a prevailing theme or plot point, the bisexual themes of the following novels should be included: Dhalgren - Samuel R. Delany - 1970. "Kid", shows a bisexual bent throughout the novel, and the novel has ties back to Greco-roman mythology suggesting just such a tie in. I Will Fear No Evil - Robert E. Heinlein - 1975. A man is put into a womans body with her thoughts still intact. His acceptance of the physiological needs and psycological needs of the female side are addressed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.209.180.28 (talk) 02:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Change in lead?

BiAndBi wants a change in the lead, proposing that bisexuality should not be defined as a sexual attraction to only two genders. I point out that the current, long-standing lead, the one I restored it to, mentions nothing of gender; it rather speaks of sexual attraction to both sexes (male and female). Gender (man and woman, or any other optional name) is not necessarily the same thing as one's biological sex. Transgender is a perfect example of this. BiAnBi's version of the lead is what I believe to be too similar to pansexuality. Bisexuality and pansexuality are not necessarily the same thing, which is why we have two different articles for both.

Since the version of the lead I have restored it to has been this way for the longest now, I feel that this change should be discussed first. Flyer22 (talk) 14:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

So sorry, am only an occasional contributor so only just saw this. Not wishing to hurt anyone's feelings but I usually avoid this article since IMHO it is a total mess. It is so very large and primarily but a place where culture wars and biphobic and homophobic fights are carried out, line by line and word by word - combined with a heavy mishmash of "vanity" additions, which are only occasional noticed.
I also think that in addition to the general biphobia/homophobia that informs this article, even thought the editors valiantly fight against it, the other problem is that there are two meanings of "Bisexual" at war with each other here. One is a scientific one, having to do with things like flowers. The other having to do with an English-language word sometimes used to describe people who are not 100% homosexual and not 100% heterosexual.
Over the years this second, slang-version if you will, has "drifted".
It used to be that ALL people who were somewhere in the middle of the Kinsey Scale were called bisexual because there were no other English-language words to use. Now as things become increasingly better in Western Europe/USA for LGBT people of all varieties, there have developed different "flavors" of bisexual people. Strictly speaking, saying that ALL bisexual people are only attracted to two genders and especially in some sort of 50/50 way was NEVER correct. That only describes one way on being a bisexual person. Now people are beginning to find ways of expressing these variation within the larger bisexual community by borrowing more words from science such as pansexual or omnisexual and coining new ones like fluid, hetroflexible/homoflexible and all that. That was all I wanted to express somehow. BiAndBi (talk) 03:40, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
As I stated on my talk page, I am not sure what biphobia you feel this article suffers from; it is watched by some people who identify as bisexual. And as for the other stuff, this article does not say that bisexual people are only sexually attracted to two genders; it says both sexes -- male and female, and even then it does not say "only." You want us to note intersex in the lead, when a sexual attraction to an intersex person may or may not be the case? Furthermore, you mention new terms, but your version put a new term in the lead as well...such as genderqueer. Is this term not a result of some people not wanting to be thought of as one gender? Is this not what you would say...different "flavors" of gender? This article also definitely goes into detail as to say that bisexuality is not a 50/50 attraction in most cases (if in any). Basically, I am not seeing your problem with this article. It is only noting, with valid sources, what this term means, its concepts, and what it has evolved into. It being a "mess" in this way is not our faults.
I do not contribute heavily to this article, but perhaps you can work with someone on this talk page who does...in order to sort out and fix the problems you have with it. Flyer22 (talk) 04:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm so sorry. I have expressed myself badly and have unwittingly hurt the feelings of people who work hard to maintain this article for the good of all. That was not my intent. I believe the article is (a) very large (b) has a problem in that one English-language word is used for two different concepts and (c) the meaning of one of those concepts has evolved further away from the original scientific usage from which it sprang. Not sure what to do about it, but there it is. Peace BiAndBi (talk) 04:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Hold on, BiAndBi. Will you stop apologizing, LOL? You have not hurt my feelings, and I would bet that you have not hurt anyone else's feelings in regards to this article. This talk page is supposed to be used for improving this article. Thus, if anything you have stated on this talk page can improve this article, then it is a good thing. With your version, I am simply worried about it essentially being the same thing as pansexuality...which does distinguish itself from the general bisexuality term. Flyer22 (talk) 04:40, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

--here is my take on the actual issue addressed (The section below):

[edit] The problem with the lead definition

"Bisexuality is sexual behavior with or physical attraction to both sexes (male and female), or a bisexual orientation. People who have a bisexual orientation can experience sexual, emotional, and (shouldn't this be "or"? I know this is quoted, but I think that on Wikipedia we should should use the least inclusive conjuction "or" rather than "and" which would imply that one contain all the criteria on the list, wheras "or" does not.) affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex; it also refers to an individual’s sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them. It is one of the three main classifications of sexual orientation, along with a heterosexual and a homesexual orientation. Individuals who do not experience sexual attraction to either sex are known as asexual." (quotations and references removed.)

This may not be the best definiton: The first problem is that it doesn't define where the connection and seperation occur in "affectional attraction" and behavior; it presents them as if they are mutually inclusive. The other problem is that it implies that one must be in a greater bisexual community in order to be bisexual. Also, it references "social identity" in a way that is somehow connected to personal identity, as if they mean the same thing. But with these problems in the defintion noted, there is one major positive to the definition: it mentions that bisexuality is an attraction or an orientation toward both sexes; and does denote that these are not necessarily mutually exclusive within the framework of the rest of the defintion, but that is the only positive that I have been able to note. Sincerely, Wolfpeaceful 208.119.72.6 (talk) 22:24, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The Etymology Section needed Renaming

The section actually deals with the evolution of social responses and critiques of the bisexuality phenomenon (for lack of a better term) in regards to studies, social factors, and theroies rather than the linguistic origin of the term bisexual (i.e. etymology). I changed the title to "Study, Theory and Social Response" as an alternative title, for now. However, if someone else has another proposal lets hear it! Thank you, Wolfpeaceful I'm Bisexually biased... get over it! 22:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Confusion

Also... I'm confused about a particular line toward the end of the article...

"Especially noteworthy are the bisexual themes in the films of Federico Fellini. While individual films are rarely "bisexual" themselves, he has made films that both employ prominent heterosexual characters and themes La Strada, La Dolce Vita, 8 1/2, and Amarcord and also made blatantly homosexual themed films such as Satyricon and involving homosexual themes and characters in many of his less famous films. Fellini was suspected of being bisexual in real life, though the extent to which he had many sexual relationships at all, much less of both sexes, is unclear."

The line that concerns me is "While individual films are rarely "bisexual" themselves, he has made films that both employ prominent heterosexual characters and themes La Strada, La Dolce Vita, 8 1/2, and Amarcord and also made blatantly homosexual themed films such as Satyricon and involving homosexual themes and characters in many of his less famous films." The reason this concerns me is A. A film cannot be "bisexual" or any sexual interpretation. Most certainly it can have a bisexual theme or have bisexual characters, or have bisexual inuendoes. B. If these are homosexually themed films, then what per se is the connection to bisexuality? If Fellini was suspected of being bisexual, then that may include merit in the discussion of the article; but I see no co-relation to the suspicion of his personal sexual orientation and the films themselves... except that these are percievably what led to these suspicions... and C. It is contradictory. On the one hand it says "especially notewortyhy are the bisexual themes of Federico Fellini." and yet in the second breath (sentence) it states that "individual films are rarely "bisexual" themselves." Perhaps someone can tweak this. Thanks, Wolfpeaceful I'm Bisexually biased... get over it! 22:52, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that Fellini bit looks like complete speculation. Since it's unattributed, I would just remove it. Gabbe (talk) 23:35, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

--I removed the final Felinni comment. I have also added a citation tag to the first sentence of the paragrpaph. Rather than saying something is "noteworthy", we need to show why it is noteworthy. Also in this regards, it seems to me that Fellinni's themes were overtly homosexual... so the question is how is Fellinis interpretation of homosexuality equated to bisexuality. I guess what I am getting at, is what makes any of his particular films geared more toward the bisexual aspect (i.e. being attracted to both sexes rather than just one) pertinent? And furthermore, since I have never seen one of these films, the next question would be which of his films stand firm on a bisexual basis rather that a primarily homesxual one? And yet another question is... is this based on the general theme and plot of the actual film, or is it a deemed interpretation by the viewer (in which case, if it is, then that should not be included in the list.) And finally does Felinni have any direct quotes that are even remotely related to bisexuality as opposed to homosexuality?... if so, perhaps that will explain his general interpretation of the film better and would add much value to the argument that Fellini's films had bisexual aspects. Please explain the relevance of homosexual themed films in regards to the topic of the article which is "bisexuality" and not "homosexuality." Thank you Wolfpeaceful I'm Bisexually biased... get over it! 21:29, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Moved uncited (debatable?) material here as per my comment above: "Especially noteworthy are the bisexual themes in the films of Federico Fellini[citation needed]. While individual films are rarely "bisexual" themselves, he has made films that both employ prominent heterosexual characters and themes La Strada, La Dolce Vita, 8 1/2, and Amarcord and also made blatantly homosexual themed films such as Satyricon and involving homosexual themes and characters in many of his less famous films."

The issues:

1. Do these films represent homosexuality or bisexuality?

2. How is Fellini's interpretation of homosexuality equated to bisexuality?

3. Is the interpretation of bisexuality based upon the nature and plot of the film, or is it based on the veiwer's personal veiws and opinions?

4. Does Felinni have any direct quotes that are even remotely related to bisexuality as opposed to homosexuality?

5. Which Fillini films include specifically bisexual themes rather than homosexual themes that may be veiwed as bisexual, if any?

6. Is there a third party (non-Felinni source) that relagates that a Fellini film has bisexual (rather than homosexual) themes?

Thanks Wolfpeaceful I'm Bisexually biased... get over it! 22:35, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

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