Talk:Black Butler

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Characters[edit]

I would like have the character section list recurring characters only. Meaning Sebastian, Ciel, the servants, and anyone else I'm not aware of.(Lau? If there is a character by that name....) However, the servants may be removed in time. Any other characters should appear on the character list (that will hopefully appear in the future). However, I haven't read much, only the first six chapters. (But I do know enough to know that Grell isn't recurring) If you happen to stumble upon this and know more than I do, please tell me, here or at my talk. Itzjustdrama? 03:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Grell may not be recurring, but he is an important character, as is Madam Red. And Elizabeth obviously will reappear, even if you haven't read that far- she's Ciel's fiancee, for crying out loud.Yin (talk) 08:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Because there really isn't a set villian in the series, as far as I know, every antagonist is important in their "episode", shall we call it. If we were to put every one of them into this section it would become bloated. I was iffy on Elizabeth, but if you say she should stay it'll be. What's your opinion on the servants staying? ~Itzjustdrama C ? 20:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
The servants are background characters, but they're still important, so they ought to stay as well.Yin (talk) 04:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Alright, then I guess they stay. As a general note,It was fine how it was to reformat the section (I.E. move the voice actors underneath the name; create sentence fragments). It was fine how it was. I'm going to change it in a couple of days if there is no dissent or comment. P.S. I'm refering to this edit. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 04:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Now the character section is a bit long. Maybe we should consider a clean-up in the (near) future? I'm not saying to remove Madam Red, Grell, etc, but to remove unnecessary detail. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 21:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Random-ish question. Is Grell a shinigami or a Grim Reaper? ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the most accurate term for Grell would be shinigami, since he doesn't seem to be a very high-ranking Death God. Sakibou (talk) 18:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The character section is now very ridiculously long. The info is really appreciated. But four sections and 13.6 kb? I want to get the character list written up, but I need real world info. Does anyone know of any recfeption or production info from a reliable source I can use? ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

BTW, thanks. I'll put him down as a shinigami then. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Is Prince Soma really around 12-years-old?

And to clarify, a character section is to explain the information necessary to understanding the plot by understanding its characters. WP:NOT#PLOT and WP:PLOT. We do not explain all bits of the plot in the character section. Only those part relevant to understanding the character. At the same time, we do not list all the characters. If it does not contribute to the overall understanding of the work and its characters it is not necessary. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Another question, if Grell is a shinigami, then what kind of death god is Wiliam? Is he also a shinigami? Or a Grim Reaper? ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

For all intents and purposes, shinigami and Death Gods are the same thing. Shinigami is Japanese for Death God. Basically, when translated into English characters that are shinigami are sometimes called Death God as that is the literal interpretation. However, in other cases, such as when Death Note was translated, they still call them shinigami, but are considered Death Gods. They're the same thing, it just depends on what you want to call them.Voltair3 (talk) 17:39, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Alright, I guess I'll put down something like Shinigami, or death gods, or something. Thanks though! :) ~Itzjustdrama C ? 21:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Out of Hand?[edit]

I seriously believe this is getting out of hand. There is too much fancruft, in the character section. I was letting it slide for way too long. I really draw the line at the anime-only section. They are anime-only and are therefor not important. The only reason anime-only character can be included in the article is if the character has an extremely huge impact on the plot of the anime adaption. For example, Dante from Fullmetal Alchemist. So say this demon dog or other character exclusive to the anime causes the death of Ciel or Sebastian or becomes the main antagonist of the entire anime, then they have a right to be included. Of course that also goes for manga characters too. Even if they are included in both adaptions, they only have to be included if they have changed the course of the events in the plot. Any questions? ~Itzjustdrama C ? 17:57, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

That would mean there are very few characters here then. Thinking like that, Madame Red, though she was also a very major character until her death would not be listed. Maybe the requirements should be changed to something like, the character made important facts be revealed about Ciel/Sebastian and we know a fair bit about them, and at least some of there back story? Madame Red for example brought up many many facts about Ciel's past, relatives, etc. Does anyone else agree with this idea? 156.34.178.215 (talk) 04:10, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Well, characters that fit that are listed on the character list linked in the section. The main article should list the protagonists of the series, Sebastian and Ciel. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 13:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please do something about the 'super hot sadist' line starting Alois's character entry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.145.228 (talk) 23:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Reception[edit]

Yay. A reception section can now be added with these. Too tired right now; storing link here. ~ Itzjustdrama? 10:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess this counts as reception. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

More reception. I should really get to this. [1] ~Itzjustdrama C ? 21:45, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Family[edit]

About Ciel's family in the part where Ciel is kidnapped and it shows a bloody flashback, isn't it sort of hinted that Ciel killed his family? They obviously were murdered, either by him or not. Moon wolff (talk) 04:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

If it's implied or hinted, then that conclusion Ciel killed his family is speculation and therefore cannot be included. However, it seems that we are completely or mostly sure they were killed. That can be included. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 21:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I think it's pretty obvious Ciel did not kill his parents. The contract between him and Sebastian is that Sebastian will destroy everyone that 'betrayed or defiled the name of Phantomhive.' If Ciel had done it himself, the contract would be null/void. It's impossible. (anonymous) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.142.74.82 (talk) 00:04, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Clean-up[edit]

Might as well start the process. The issues I want to address in the clean-up aren't as many as the other clean-ups I've planned, so far anyway. First of all, is the character section. There is too much detail and we need to cut it out. The reception section needs expanding. I have the info, but I haven't actually had the time to read it yet. that's it for now, but something else might strike me later. If anyone would like to help, please do so. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll add the plot section to the clean-up list. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 18:42, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Finished rewriting character section, in case one didn't notice. Although I'm still not too happy with it. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 21:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed some information regrading setting rather than plot. About that. We could always create a setting section. However, there needs to be enough legit information to do so. In my opinion, exact date doesn't really count and I believe historical inaccuracies and references are to be expected from a manga set in historical context. ~Itzjustdrama C ? 22:23, 26 November 2008 (UTC

Review(s)[edit]

--KrebMarkt (talk) 21:14, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

--Gabriel Yuji (talk) 23:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Shonen-ai?[edit]

When I go on the article, sometimes it says "Shonen-ai" on the list on genres. Black Butler is NOT Shonen-ai. Unless you prove to me that it is, I will delete anything saying "Shonen-ai" or "Yaoi" on the list of genres. --MarinaNekoNyan (talk) 03:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Looks like it's just some IPs that keep changing it. I'll keep an eye out for them. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 12:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
There are a lot of genres in the infobox. Maybe it should just focus on the most notable ones from the series as it avoids this kinds of edits.Tintor2 (talk) 15:54, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I agree with you, Tintor2. And thanks for your help, WhiteArcticWolf. --*MarinaNekoNyan* (talk) 22:19, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I just came here asking how it was considered shounen & not BL. Especially season 2 which kicks up the homoerotic fanservice sixfold. I won't edit the page, but I will offer my argument for shounenai. I would also argue that it was more Jousei than Shounen. I might not be right, but it's my personal belief that whether something be concidered shounen or shoujo or jousei or seinen should depend on the fanbase.

  • This series has no male fans & makes heterosexual men who watch it uncomfortable & rarely make it through the whole series.
  • The romantic tension between male characters is constant & in-your-face. It's mostly platonic, with demons falling in love with souls they would normally eat, but there is a LOT of physical groping.
  • Sebastian seems to have fallen in love with his meal & is seems quite reluctant to end his contract & does things to prolong it, like giving misleading information & failing to kill his targets.
  • Almost every guy in this series physically molests either Sebastian or Ciel or comments on their attractiveness.
  • Grell is openly gay & hits on every good-looking guy he meets, but 90% of his screen time is him perving over Sebastian.
  • Claude claims to only be interested in Ciel's soul, but spends a lot of time thinking about his body. He also molests Sebastian once.
  • Alois is shown several times to have been naked in bed with an older mad who obviously raped him.
  • At first Alois is infatuated with Ciel wants to own him, but when his soul posesses Ciel's body, he seems to only want Claude's love.
  • Claude almost confesses that he does love Alois, then retorts & says he was using him to get to Ciel.
  • When Claude takes Sebastian's place as Ciel's butler, whom is fawning over his legs & skin, Sebastian is clearly jealous.
  • Between the last episode of season 1 & many episodes of season 2, Sebastian almost kisses Ciel several times.
  • Every time two guys fight & get in eachother's faces, they're always almost touching lips.
  • Claude seems to have an orgasm after tasting Ciel's blood.
  • Sebastian makes it a point to carry Ciel in his arms as often as possible.
  • Sebastian & Claude fight constantly over possession of Ciel, the latter admitting being too attracted to his soul

to want to consume it.

  • The two demons decide that their master souls are worth fighting to the death over, even though Hanna now owned both boys. In the end, & Claude himself doesn't seem to know whether he preferred Ciel or Alois, though Sebastian insists that Claude had been using Ciel to deny his feelings for Alois.
  • When Hanna consumes a soul, that person becomes part of her personality. Never having shown any interest in Claude before, after consuming Alois's soul, she lies down next to Claude's corpse, calls him "my love," & plans for the 4 of them (Hanna, Claude, & the souls of Alois & his little brother) to die together.
  • The last episode ends with Ciel & Sebastian abandoning everyone, running off together. Sebastion carries Ciel in his arms as they talk about how they are eternally bound to eachother. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.134.7 (talk) 08:42, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
As strong as your argument is, it seems to pertain more to the anime than the manga series, which is the primary media. And I'm under the impression that shounen-ai is a subset of shojo. Because Black Butler is published by a shonen magazine, I don't think the shonen-ai label can be attributed to the manga series. Correct me if I'm wrong about the latter point. But I do not doubt that the anime seems to be pretty shonen-ai. I've never watched it (only read!). But I don't think shonen-ai should go into genres for the reasons I've just mentioned. (Such stuffy wording on my part!) ~TenTonParasol 22:07, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it does pertain almost entirely to season 2. Perhaps keep the main series as nongender specific but mention that season 2 is an anime-only BL sequel, though the manga is still going & the mangaka might have told the animators that this was how she intended to end the series when the time came. Wikipedia inititally refused Kyou Kara Maou the BL genre until KKM R came out, & they still list Gensoumaden Saiyuki as Shounen when it's jousei & published by Zero Sum, which is for women. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.134.7 (talk) 03:52, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Do you have a reliable source stating just that? If not, this is all original research based on personal observations and is and would not meet Wikipedia's verifiability requirements. And if it cannot be verified by a reliable source, it doesn't belong in the article.Farix (t | c) 11:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

It's part of the "Shoujo Jump" phenomenon (Matt Thorn's term), where female-oriented fanservice is put into a shonen title to gain a broader audience. Melinda Beasi discusses it here. --Malkinann (talk) 00:47, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

TVS[edit]

The anime is currently being broadcast on TVS in Australia. I'm not sure when it began as I seem to be located in a black spot for that station. On Saturday [when it airs] I'll stream it online via their website and see what episode they're up to and work backwards to find the premiere date. 122.149.146.20 (talk) 11:14, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

About shonen ai...[edit]

I’ve already tried, in "Black Butler"'s spanish article, to write about the visible reasons that justify why so many users are saying that this manga is clasified as a "shonen-ai". Look, guys, there is a big truth that everyone here is avoiding: manga comics, as any other art expression, has its own freedom to be analyzed and understood of many different ways. And is pretty obviously that it wouldn’t exist a debate about if "Black Butler" it is, or is not, a shonen-ai, if Yana Toboso and the anime's directors wouldn’t show a lot of ambiguous scenes between Ciel and Sebastian, the main characters. Personal opinion? I compared this series with other conventional shonen, and this "Ciel-Sebastian" relationship is one of the darkest I ever seen. Also, all the male public who watched the anime and saw the manga have the same complaints: "Why Ciel doesn’t like Lizzy, or any other girl?" "Why Sebastian were about to kiss Ciel in the last chapter of the first season?". I propose, at least, that it must appear a section in the main artice, titled like this: "Black Butler’s confusing plot". Luna Lillencraft (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Neither Shounenai nor Shounen.[edit]

According to a translation of the Japanese Wikipedia entry for Monthly G Fantasy, Monthly G Fantasy is not Shounen. "Audience: Junior and senior high school students men and women." "Summery: Magazine As the name suggests, works a lot of the fantasy comic is, work for women, Youth for the center in particular."

Now going to the Japanese wiki entry for Kuroshitsuji, it lists the genres; "Dark fantasy, suspense, action, & situation comedy"but has no demographic listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LikaLaruku (talkcontribs) 08:43, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

I have reverted your edits as the bases for them is the Japanese-language Wikipedia, which is not a reliable source. You will have to provide a reliable source that Monthly G Fantasy is not a shōnen magazine. Especially since we do have a reliable source—Mechademia issue 6, pg 81[2]—that identifies Monthly G Fantasy as a shōnen magazine. 24.149.117.220 (talk) 10:27, 15 May 2014 (UTC)