Talk:Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment)

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5-Oct-2007 Merge Proposed[edit]

See Talk:Black Watch#5-Oct-2007 Merge Proposed. – Conrad T. Pino (talk) 02:11, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW I would support such a merger if it was considered again, the two articles largely duplicate each other. FlagSteward (talk) 09:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have now merged the two articles. Dormskirk (talk) 00:00, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Ladies from Hell?"[edit]

Can anyone find a source for this "Ladies from Hell" thing? Preferably one that actually proves they were mentioned as such by Germans. I've been studying Scottish Regiments and neither me nor my professors can find a single German source that suggests they actually said this or any variant of it. Relevant reading: http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/the-ladies-from-hell/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.36.52.93 (talk) 13:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article has multiple issues.[edit]

It has indeed. This article is deeply dispiritiing. It looks like it was drafted on the back of an envelope.

Addressing some of the multiple issues in order of appearance.

"As part of the Scottish Division it was the senior regiment of the Highland Brigade." This is makes no sense, the Scottish Division replaced the Lowland and Highland Brigades in 1967.

"The regiment's name came from the dark tartan that they wore and from its role to "watch" the Highlands."

The independent companies of the Highland Watch, referred to Gaelic speakers as "am freiceadan dubh," did not comprise a Regiment. When the companies were embodied as a regiment of foot in 1739, their role of watching the Highlands ended soon after. The name however persisted. It may have derived from the colour of tartan cloth provided for some of the independent companies in order that they might achieve uniform appearance as desired by General Wade. It is not a definite fact. The Gaelic name may also have contained a perjorative play on words reflecting the Hanoverian sympathies predominant among the the officers of the companies and a degree of partiality in their policing of the Highlands.

'Black Watch' was originally just a nickname for the 42nd (Royal Highland) Regiment of Foot, but was used more and more so that, in 1881, when the 42nd amalgamated with the 73rd Regiment of Foot, the new regiment was named 'The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)'.

The additional title 'The Black Watch' was granted to the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment in 1861

The uniform changed over time, but the nickname has been more enduring.

What does this mean? Even though it was no longer worn in action, the Black Watch wore more or less the same tartan (it evolved somewhat) until they lost their independent status in 2006.

The regimental motto was Nemo me impune lacessit (no one attacks me with impunity).

This is in fact the motto of the Order of The Thistle and was borne on the badges of other regiments besides the Black Watch.

The Royal Stewart Tartan was worn by the regimental pipers to reflect the status of 'Royal' regiment.

Perhaps. The pipers' Royal Stewart tartan was adopted almost hundred years after the regiment was granted Royal status in 1758.

A number of authors state that the regiment was given the nickname "Ladies from Hell" ("Die Damen aus der Hölle") by German troops

If there is no evidence that the Germans used this nickname, which appears to be the case, where does the German phrase come from? Isn't that contradictory?

(Scottish troops wore kilts up until 1940)

Scottish troops wear the kilt today. Do you mean 'in action'?

"During the state funeral of John F. Kennedy in November 1963, nine bagpipers from the regiment were invited to travel to the United States and participate in the funeral procession.." This could be better expressed. In fact, the Pipes and Drums were still on tour in the US having played at the White House two weeks previously.

To give three lines to the Second World War and a whole paragraph to the Operation Telic deployments to Iraq is disproportionate.

SIDE STRAP

Role Armoured Infantry Size One battalion Garrison/HQ Sennelager, Germany

This is unhelpful, relating as it does to one period in the Regiment's history, the last. It is now out of date.

"Role Infantry Regimental HQ Perth, Scotland."

would be more appropriate.

JF42 (talk) 20:20, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think I can help with one of these. "Die Damen aus der Hölle" is a literal and improbable translation of "Ladies from Hell." A more likely one, if such a concept had ever existed, would be Höllenfrauen. I suspect that someone with more enthusiasm than knowledge of German or history has come up with this translation somewhere along the way and inserted it into the system. Let us charitably assume that he or she was trying to be helpful. Of course, it is then quoted and becomes self-referencing, which makes it eligible for Wikipedia. You might not believe this, but it seems to have played a part in causing one prolific Wikipedean to offer Carry On Up the Khyber as a reliable source. Even if it were a plausible translation, there would still be no primary evidence that the expression was ever used by German troops, only widespread secondary sources of the type that satisfied Wikipedia sufficiently for it to declare that George Patton Jr. was at one point in charge of a large proportion of the British Army. Equally dispiriting is the fact that the nickname is attributed to several quite different regiments, even within Wikipedia. It is, indeed, tiresome to see some of the floundering, marginally-informed articles that appear in this misbegotten project, such as the one in question, where a great deal of work is required. I hope this helps. Hengistmate (talk) 23:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I could not agree more. Although I doubt that anyone is reading this.JF42 (talk) 13:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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