Talk:Black people

Black people in Israel and India

This diff is particularly wide-ranging, in removing several sorts of material. The following was removed from the Israel section:

Over 16,000 African asylum seekers have entered Israel in recent years. A smaller but significant group is the Black Jews of Kerala, many of whom settled in the moshavs (agricultural settlements) of the Negev (southern desert)

The Black Jews of Kerala, whose origins in India date back two if not three thousand years, appear identical to the surrounding Tamil population. For centuries they faced racism from the neighboring community of White Jews, who excluded them from the Paradesi Synagogue. This apartheid-like situation improved only in the twentieth century with the rise of the "Jewish Gandhi", a local lawyer named Abraham Barak Salem. Most of the Cochin Jews migrated to Israel, where their race makes them stand out and in some cases draws racist comments.

Within the same diff, this paragraph:

In South India there are also several communities of Black African descent, such as the Vedda people of Sri Lanka, the Sheedis/Siddis, specifically the Siddis of Karnataka, who descend from East African slaves. Other ethnic groups in India with dark skin and/or broad facial features are the Bonda, Gondi, Bhil, Dongria Kondha.

was changed to this, removing its only reference, and adding an unsourced final sentence:

In South India there are also several communities of Black African descent, such as the Sheedis/Siddis, specifically the Siddis of Karnataka, who descend from Zanj (Black African) slaves. In Pakistan, Zanj descendants are known as the Makrani.

I am not going to reinstate the material in its entirety, but if this article is supposed to comprehensively cover all groups of black people, then it is hard to see why sourced material such as this should be removed. If, on the other hand, the article is only about black Africans, then a lot more material will need to be deleted. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Genetically, South Asian people of a wide range of phenotypes, as far I understand it, are of the same "race". There is no "racial" difference between Indo-Aryan speakers of lighter skin tones and Dravidian-speakers of darker skin tones, according to genetic researches. So attributing blackness to these peoples only based on their physical appearance, according to many anthropological points of view, is an ethnocentric practice. Just to make things clear (I think), we can not even label the sexual practices of Ancient Roman and Greeks as bisexual hebiphilia nowadays (and obviously recorded accepted homosexuality in the Antiquity means that there were people of homosexual or bisexual orientations in the past, but NO, we can not label people with these identities which can only make sense in the contemporary West and civilizations influenced by it). So, we can not call people of some *put any race here*-looking phenotype, but absent of cultural, historical or even genetic connection to other peoples of the said racial phenotype, as part of that race. It is inaccurate as calling the Ainu white people. Lguipontes (talk) 10:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

(Lguipontes) is correct. I get the point with homosexuality. Where the gay identity (modern) and the act are different. A even better example is the issue with Pedophilia, then 1/2 the old world would be perverts. Assigning color based race classifications to people in antiquity is problematic (an very eurocentric view of the "other") And it always needs a disclaimer. eg "in our modern times we would call the Ancient Egyptians African-Americans had they lived in America". (for example).--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 11:06, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Blacks called "Abd" in the Middle East

Living in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, and being a native speaker of Arabic of Algerian origin, I have never ever heard anyone from the various North African and Middle Eastern community of expats refer to Blacks as "Abd". The article Abd (Arabic summarizes it well, though it neglects to add that "Abd" is often used in a religious/traditional context to refer to humans and people in general, regardless of religious or ethnic background.

Looking at the Washington post article, it does seem a bit suspicious - a five year old being bullied at school for her racial background. I don't see how can this be applied to the rest of the Middle East. It seems her mother working as a maid for a "white" family - or as white as Iraqis can get - did give her her fare share of racism and prejudice towards a low income member of an ethnic minority - if it can even be called that, as Arabs don't differentiate between blacks and whites, at least not in urban centers and places where no native black community lives. Lots of Libyans, Sudanese, Yemenis and Emaratis here that are ethnically what you'd call an African Arab but no one distinguishes them by any term other than some local term for dark-skinned. However, derogatory terms are used jokingly against each other as many locals are themselves dark skinned, given Persian, Pakistani, Arabian, Yemenite, or recently Ethiopian and Somali refugee ancestries.

The article also quotes Jinaa, who refers to himself as a Abd according to the article. This is troubling because; first, he himself has African ancestry and this denotes a bias when sticking to term such as "free" and "slave"; it doesn't mean the wider Arab community, even where he lives, still use the term; second, what version of "abd" did he use? He said it in plural, does that mean he used "abeed" or "ebad"? The former is plural for slaves and the latter is plural for one of the synonyms of humans and are not freedom dependent; and third, he says he referred to whites using the word for free, but what word is this? The article does not specify. I hardly see this article as qualifying as proof for abd being a common Arabic word for negro.

The second source has this to say: "Nevertheless. elsewhere in the Arab world, the relationship of blackness of skin to slavery continues to be reflected in many dialects; i.e. abd = blacks. In 1995 in Nigeria, when I was speaking in Arabic with a Lebanese, the man simply referred to Nigerians as abid, and a modern dictionary of Egyptian spoken Arabic also defines abd as, first "slave" and "secondly "negro"."

So we have two obscure examples. If Egyptian and Lebanese people truly did refer to blacks as "abid", then why have I never heard any of them, who make up the majority of Arab expats over here in Dubai, do so? The most logical explanation I could think of is that "abd" is a conscious slur or tease utilized by Arabs in reference to the history of Blacks, and not in itself a de facto Arabic term for Black people. In this sense, does that mean that every English or any other language native speaker who teases or slurs Blacks as slaves must shame his entire linguistic family into bearing the fact that in their language, "Black = Slave"? I find this to be truly horrifying as it is beginning to be picked up by right wing rhetoric as a tool to use against Arabs and Muslims. It is unfounded and not true at all to say that "The term "abd", (Arabic: عبد‎,) "slave," remains a common term for black people in the Middle East, often though not always derogatory." just because a Washington Post article cites the story of a low income maid and her daughter meeting abuse by their employers. UltimateDarkloid (talk) 04:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

So why dont you bring some of the explanations in a summarized form to this article to add clarity?--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 05:44, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Commons category: How come missing?

Please add the {{Commons category|People with black skin}}

to the article. 31.210.177.165 (talk)

quote by owen alik shahada

I propose deletion of the quote by owen alik shahada for two reasons:

1) owen alik shahada is not notable enough to be the only person quoted in an entire article about a 1 billion+ population 2) i believe owen alik shahada posted the quote himself (conflict of interest) due to the fact that the user halaqah seems to be a cover for owen alik shahada (halaqa has extensively edited the owen alik shahada article, halaqa espouses views and pushes povs that are the same as that of owen alik shahada as shown in his writings/websites, halaqa included his quote in this article and keeps linking to his site and also the name of owen alik shahada's media production company is....SHOCKER....halaqa).

For these reasons, I believe the quote should be deleted; in the LEAST because of the clear conflict of interest with halaqa/owen alik shahada.

And, FYI halaqa, owen alik shahada's name is spelled incorrectly in the article, it should be\شهادة‎ a soft ha sound, not the heavy ha sound that's written out in arabic.

Whoishalaqa (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC).

conflict of interest already admitted; owen alik shahada quote should be removed as it is self-promotion

I guess the conflict of interest has already been admitted in the information below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Theidea.jpg

current 14:05, 17 June 2006 Thumbnail for version as of 14:05, 17 June 2006 500 × 299 (45 KB) Halaqah (talk | contribs) (Halaqah Media is the owner/author of this image and we are the research wing of Halaqah Media Films. http://www.halaqah.com

This image is a screenshot from a copyrighted film, and the copyright for it is most likely owned by the studio which produced the film, and possibly also by any actors appearing in the screenshot. It is believed that the use of a limited number of web-resolution screenshots for critical commentary and discussion of the film and its contents on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement. See Wikipedia:Non-free content for more information. To the uploader: please add a detailed fair use rationale for each use, as described on Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline, as well as the source of the work and copyright information.

—)

therefore, for conflict of interest reasons, (owen alik shahada is their primary client/owner) the quote from halaqah by owen alik shahada should be removed as it seems to be promotion (only quote by a person in an article about a 1B+ population)

Other articles showing conflict:

500 years later (film by owen alik shahada) Motherland (film by owen alik shahada) owen alik shahada halaqah media group (media group of owen alik shahada) the idea (film by owen alik shahada) mafaa (quotes by owen alik shahada by halaqa media) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoishalaqa (talk • contribs) 17:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

richburg quote

PLEASE let africans speak for themselves when talking about Africa, it is strange that African Americans dominate the discussion of African viewpoints. That should not be allowed in the sections pertaining specifically to AFRICAN viewpoints (they are VERY welcome in viewpoints about BLACK people GENERALLY around the world, but when talking about cultural CONTINENTAL (not DIASPORIC) AFRICAN viewpoints, it is absurd to assume that African AMERICANS can speak of AFRICAN viewpoints when the vast majority cannot speak the language AT ALL NOR have visited the continent (not in the case of Richburg who was washington post bureau chief in nairobi but for OTHERS). THAT is ESSENTIALIZING african culture so that anyone with DARK SKIN can speak about african Cultural viewpoints as a REPRESENTATIVE. That would be like WHITE AMERICANS speaking CULTURALLY about FRENCH or ITALIAN or BRITISH MODERN CULTURAL viewpoints. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoishalaqa (talk • contribs) 00:10, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Please stop shouting. Also, please don't assume that when a book's author is African American, the views expressed in it are exclusively those of African Americans. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)