Talk:Blood, Sweat & Tears
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|WikiProject Biography / Musicians||(Rated C-class)|
|WikiProject Jazz||(Rated C-class, Low-importance)|
- 1 Error
- 2 Description of music request
- 3 c'mon
- 4 Personnel list request
- 5 Billie Holiday request
- 6 Bill Tilman
- 7 Two suggestions
- 8 Multiple Issues & Article Re-Classification
- 9 Origin of the Band Name
- 10 removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
- 11 Thoughts on 1st Album info
- 12 Weasel words
"...Child Is Father to the Man that featured the Badfinger song, "Without Her" made famous by Harry Nilsson". This is NOT the same Badfinger song that Harry Nilsson popularized. One listen will tell you that... FYI.
Description of music request
I would like to see some description of BS&T's music, preferably early on in the article. From what I have heard, I would say that their music is highly orchistrated, bold and loud, but without grungy, distorted guitar. But then, I'm terrible at describing music. ike9898 17:58, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)
I think it's a pretty bad practice to judge music by the number of sales. I think there are lots of words to be said about BST's beautiful arrangements, and unique blend od jazz and rock -- this is the only band of that type. Do you know, for example, that in the 3rd album, in "40000 Headmen" they use a theme from an early Soviet movie, by Prokofiev? [ 12:07, 2 November 2005 22.214.171.124]
- I don't see where the band's music is judged by album sales in the article, aside from the reference to the muted critical response that their third album received at the time of its release (which might have been due to politics more than the music itself). Actually, aside from a blurb written in Billboard about the album, I don't think that I've ever seen one completely positive review of that album (and I've seen some completely negative ones, such as Robert Christgau's review)...though in all fairness, I don't think that I've ever read a bad review from Billboard. -- Kevinloy 18:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Personnel list request
Yo.. theres like no info on who played what instriments.. im gonna fail the music assignment my teacher gave me!! :-( [20:09, 5 November 2005 126.96.36.199]
- The Child Is Father to the Man article has this information for the first BS&T incarnation. It's not anywhere that I can see for later incarnations, though. Wasted Time R 01:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Howard Levy was a BIG part of Blood, Sweat, & Tears, yet I didn't really see his name mentioned at all throughout the page. Not even on that long list of members throughout the bands history. He was one of the earliest members, possibly even one of the first. He needs more coverage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feedthefrodos (talk • contribs) 17:17, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Billie Holiday request
ALL RIGHT,ALL RIGHT. WHAT ABOUT BILLIE`S ' GOD BLESS THE CHILD? [23:51, 29 April 2006 188.8.131.52]
- I've added a (red) link in the Blood, Sweat & Tears (album) article, but I imagine you're looking for something more? Wasted Time R 01:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
The Bill Tilman this wiki entry links to is the wrong one. The Bill Tilman which was part of Blood Sweat and Tears for several albums was not a mountaineer explorer born in the 1800s. http://billtillman.com/bill_tillman_band.htm If my memory serves, this is the guy who sang "And When I Die" and he deserves a little more ink than is provided in this wiki entry. ZachsMind (talk) 05:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
...which I didn't want to put in without checking for agreement first.
- The article states in several places that David Clayton-Thomas "began" a solo career at the same time he joined BS&T. DCT actually had a notable solo career in Canada in the mid 1960s, releasing several albums and singles across several labels, and had numerous hits, but only a few were issued in the USA on Tower (Captiol's budget label, which didn't do much promotion). His releases on Roman Records are among the most sought after and highest priced collectable records in Canada (no citation will be provided, but this is just a talk page). Since the article mentions the American album on Decca, perhaps it should be mentioned he did an American single for Roulette around the same time ("No, No, No" / "Monopoly"). By the way, some of the tracks on the Decca album are Roman tracks with horns overdubbed!
- LAX Records, the label run by Jerry Goldstein, is incorrect. It's actually LA records (undoubtably for Los Angeles). The logo shows the two letters with the serifs crossing at the lower right, forming an X, but the fine print states the company name is "LA International". This error comes from Goldmine reference books where authors/editors have apparently misread the logo and repeated the mistake across many of their books. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 17:29, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Multiple Issues & Article Re-Classification
- I've added a "Multiple Issues" template to this article, removed the dead piping, consolidated the cite links, and cleaned up the prose a little. Here are the issues that I've noticed:
- The article is largely uncited, and there are only three actual sources. This leads into my second concern:
- Large sections of the article read like a fan review (i.e. "After returning to the U.S., the group released Blood, Sweat & Tears 3; which was another popular success"), which appears biased and not representative of a neutral point of view (Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Neutral_point_of_view).
- Finally, the whole thing should be "wikified" (trimmed into a more encyclopedic format)
- I also took the effort of putting a "laundry list" template for the section containing the seemingly endless list of names (most of them obscure) of past members of BS&T. At present, I don't believe that the majority of these people satisfy the notability criteria for inclusion: Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Entertainers. If these people need to be included in the article, there should at least be references for them.
- Incidentally, I've changed this article's quality rating to reflect it's actual quality, relative to the criteria listed in the WikiProject pages. bwmcmaste (talk) 03:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
- "Dead piping" (not a term I've heard before, I think you mean red links), should not be removed if there is a possibility of an article for the musician being created in future (see guideline in link); hoping you'll put them back. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 12:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
- When you click on "Steven Katz" in this article it links to a politician, not the singer. 04:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jspugh (talk • contribs)
To say that the first album, Child is Father to the Man, was "characterized by Al Kooper's penchant for studio gimmickry" is unadulterated nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 00:23, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Scope and attention
It seems to me that the number of words devoted to later years is unnecessary, in comparison to their heyday. It seems governed by the number of years and the number of facts, versus what is noteworthy. IMHO the bulk of the ink should be on the years from Al Kooper through Jerry Fisher, when they actually had consistent sales.Frank Lynch (talk) 00:58, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Origin of the Band Name
I have changed the part that says how the band name was picked. It had referenced a VH1 Blood Sweat & Tears biography that states:
- The new group was signed to Columbia Records, and the name "Blood, Sweat & Tears" came to Kooper after a jam at the Cafe au Go Go, where a cut on his hand left his organ keyboard covered in blood.
The VH1 biography itself has no references that I could find. On the other hand, the Blood Sweat & Tears official home page "Most asked questions" page contradicts this with the first question:
- Q: How did the band get it's name?
- A: Al Kooper needed a name for the band since he had already booked a gig, He saw a Johnny Cash album called "Blood Sweat & Tears" and the rest is history.
While this is not the most formal answer, it is a more authoritative source.
It is worth noting that the classicbands.com BS&T biography has the same with a bit more detail:
- Al Kooper came up with the name when he was on the phone with a promoter, while gazing at a Johnny Cash album cover. The album was called, "Blood Sweat & Tears".
removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
- This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
- There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
- It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
- In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
- This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:37, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Thoughts on 1st Album info
Since "I Can't Quit Her" was the single released from the album I was wondering if this tune would be the more important - or at least more pertinent - song to mention instead of Nilsson's tune. The Arbors covered "I Can't Quit Her" which could add some weight to favoring it's mention possibly.
In a way, mentioning Harry's song without mentioning Randy Newman and Tim Buckley's inclusions seems arbitrary. Since I like all the tracks I'm wondering about balance in this area. Perhaps a non concern. Any thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 14:31, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
The article is full of "reportedly" and "arguably" and other weasel-words, making claims without any support from reliable sources. It seems to rely on a lot of unsubstantiated rumors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 14:49, 21 November 2013 (UTC)