Talk:Bon Jovi

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Discography and certification questions[edit]

I'm running on incomplete data for approximate sales of the albums. I'm relying on Gold/Platium certification data from the RIAA, this is both generally out of date and will be artificially low when international sales are taken into account. Data for O.W.N. and Bounce are not yet availible, though Bon Jovi is saying 160,000 for Bounce's first week. nknight 21:54 Oct 24, 2002 (UTC)

64.175.250.138, is there any particular reason you deleted Crossroad from the discography? I'm readding it for now. nknight 14:04 Nov 22, 2002 (UTC)

Bounce did sell 160,000 copies in its first week. But i'am upset because there has been no recent certification for the bands previous albums, they're still saying they sold only 34 million albums in the u.s. when if you look at actual sales its now up to about 45 million albums sold in the u.s. Such as slippery when wet they are still saying it is certified 12* platinum when it has now sold like 13.9 million copies in the u.s. it should be certified 14* platinum. The certifications should be updated. The riaa is slow on certifications user:slippery89

Original means not on any prior release[edit]

83.23.217.83 added You Give Love a Bad Name from Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back to the "Original songs appear on" section of the discography on Oct 22, 2005. It was Bad Medicine that appears in that movie/on that soundtrack, but regardless neither of the songs belong in that section because they were previously released on proper Bon Jovi albums.

I'm removing it, until someone can give a good reason the correct song should be displayed.

Worldwide sales[edit]

Can Somebody write Total sale for every album?


One more?[edit]

Bon Jovi not Hard Rock[edit]

I don't know why people always revert it but Bon Jovi is obviously not a Hard Rock band. AC/DC is a Hard Rock band, Metallica is a Hard Rock band. What do they have in common? Nothing at all. And this article is way too biased. Sounds like a Zine article. Virus of Profanity 16:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Their inclusion in the genre is well referenced. Removing it is POV. 156.34.142.110 17:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add that it's a bit ridiculous to call Bon Jovi metal. They fit best into the arena rock category.

Hard Rock doesn't only restrict itself to near-metal bands. You're forgetting about bands such as Heart, Incubus, and Queen are all considered Hard Rock, and Bon Jovi is harder than any of these three, so the genre fits. BreakerLOLZ 03:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Bon Jovi were metal in the 1980s, lots of citations would agree with this as well. James25402 18:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

They are classified as hard rock, says David Bryan. They are not pop rock. You can't call Arctic Monkeys or Kaiser Chiefs rock, and call BJ pop rock. BJ is harder than both those "bands", so BJ is hard rock, or rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheseDays4ever (talkcontribs) 11:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If Queen and Bon Jovi are hard rock, then i don't like the definition of hard rock. I DEMAND THAT IT BE CHANGED! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.76.11 (talk) 03:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

im glad someone put heavy metal back because its true71.17.42.3 (talk) 23:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Umm, bon jovi is definatly hard rock because if you have the new jersey or crossroads C/D listen to bad med, and lay your hands on me. Then tell me that there not hard rock. but they ARENT a metal band and in the 80s they were hard rock ok. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.223.115 (talk) 04:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC) Ok, AC/DC was hardly heavy metal so what the hell makes you think that Bon jovi is heavy metal. Bon jovi wer Glam metal at their heviest and they were more rock/pop rock rather than Hard rock! KISS was hard rock NOT bon jovi! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.12.174.87 (talk) 10:38, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? Kiss is about as heavy as BJ. Bon Jovi is hard rock, obviously all you listened to is Thank You for Loving Me or Bed of Roses or something. Kiss also had God Gave Rock n' Roll to You, a pop song. Such a double standard around here! Even ACDC had "Love Song". I will argue that some of their songs are heavy metal like Undivided and alot of the ones on 7800 Fahrenheit. 108.81.33.59 (talk) 00:39, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

the information on this page is innaccurate and the moderators keep deleting my post because they hate being wrong or something. bon jovi is not a hard rock band they are anything buy hard rock. it's so freaking obvious just look at wikipedia's def of hard rock and listent to bon jovi and the answer is right ther. also BJ themsleves never said they were hard rock. this onformation is so blatently wrong. so damn wrong. i believe there is some vand bias going on or something./ it's fishy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.166.218.5 (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the person below. Bon Jovi is so mot a hard rock band. They are a Hair Band or a Metal band or just a rock band. This article is sayin that they are a Hard Rock band just like another wiki articles says Gun N Roses are a hard rock band. So what you people are tell me is that Guns N Roses are the same genre and sound music wise? Have any of you ever listend to either Bon Jovi or Guns N Roses? This needs to be fixed. The moderators will not let it be adjusted. They keep deleting the correction I make and accuse me of vandalism. There is some weird bias going on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.166.218.5 (talk) 15:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
There are sources to say Bon Jovi are hard rock. It doesn't matter if they never said they're hard rock, reliable sources show they are hard rock as well as hair metal. And they don't have to sound like GN'R to be hard rock - hard rock is a wide term... Aerosmith, T. Rex, GN'R and Bon Jovi are all hard rock but they don't sound the same. Funeral 15:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I have a question for the previous 205.X IP. Since you are the same person who posted both comments above... what type of internal mind conflict would have arisen had you disagreed with your own statement posted on Nov. 20??? and is talking to yourself a common activity?? Funeral is correct. Wikipedia is all about verifiable content from reliable sources. Personal opinions have no place here. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 16:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Get a fucking life, Bon Jovi are definately hard rock/glam metal, anyone who disagrees has either some serious issues with anything that is popular and/or commercial or has no knowledge of recent music history. Bad Company/Queen/Free/Nazareth/Van Halen were also called hard rock and sound nothing like GNR. Try harder than attacking the band's image.

Why the hell has glam metal been constantly removed for the past few weeks? Classic Bon Jovi is SO glam, whether the band is "metal" or not. In addition, everybody on the talk page and many editors support glam metal being there, so removing it is currently against the consensus anyway. And all websites and critics today say they're glam too. Angry Shoplifter (talk) 20:17, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, one of you anti-glam users explain why. Remember, traditionally and currently, the consensus favors glam metal, and the band is so widely considered as so that removing it is POV. Angry Shoplifter (talk) 02:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

What the hell are some of you guys smoking? How is Bon Jovi not a hard rock band? And they WERE a glam metal band in the 80s. Keep the Faith, These Days and later on are anything BUT hair metal. I get the feeling some of you guys don't know jack about music genres. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.81.33.59 (talk) 00:29, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Dangerous Curves?[edit]

Not sure this should be in there, not yet at least. Its (future) existence is denied by the bands official sources as of 28/11/08.

Album covers[edit]

In the articles "Tokyo Road: Best of Bon Jovi" and "In Brazil: LP" you should put a photo of the covers of the two albums.

The (hopefully) final discussion on genres[edit]

Alright, it is getting ridiculous the amount of times the 'genre' section is changed, so I feel we need to hold a final discussion on the genres to be listed.

Hard Rock should be up there, no question, because almost all of their work falls under it; This Left Feels Right and Lost Highway are pretty much the only two that might not.
Glam Metal (aka. Hair Metal or Pop-metal) should be added because most of the early Bon Jovi albums (Bon Jovi-New Jersey) had significant influences from the genre, and many of their popular songs fall under it.
Also, a more general 'Rock' link should be added IMO. Why? Because Bon Jovi, while mainly sticking to either a Hard Rock or Glam metal format, has also experimented with different sounds in albums, mainly Country rock in Lost Highway and Alternative rock/Soft rock in This Left Feels Right. While these two are not enough to warrant adding both to the genre section, they do encompass 11% of Bon Jovi's total work, and possibly more when you factor individual songs from albums.
I don't feel Heavy metal or Pop rock, two common suggestions, should be added. While Bon Jovi did play a sub-genre of Heavy metal, Glam metal, for a good portion of their career, they never really independently played Heavy metal, nor did they refer to themselves as such. In fact, glam metal drew much influence from punk, pop, and glam rock music, not just metal.
Also, labeling Bon Jovi as pop rock is ridiculous. Pop rock is basically pop music with electric guitars, and it's primary artists now include Katy Perry, Avril Lavigne, Maroon 5, P!nk, and Kelly Clarkson; in the '80s, pop rock's main artists included Huey Lewis and the News, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, and Phil Collins, and in the 90s, main artists included No Doubt, Robbie Williams, and DC Talk. Honestly, almost none of these artists have much similarity to Bon Jovi's style at all. Toa Nidhiki05 00:21, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Alright first of all, people need to sign their comments. Second, I'm fine with just hard rock and glam/hair metal as their genre. Soxwon (talk) 03:02, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Bon Jovi were definitely a glam metal band in the 80's. Why can't you face the facts? Is it somehow shameful that they represented the hair metal movement together with bands like Ratt, Mötley Crue, Dokken, Poison and Cinderella? Bon Jovi is a hard rock/glam metal band. -- JNCooper —Preceding undated comment added 22:45, 9 February 2011 (UTC).
To Nidhiki: out of the artists you are listing, can you tell me if Katy Perry has any similarities to Stevie Wonder? Or what does Avril Lavigne have to do with Michael Jackson? Bon Jovi's later material is definitely pop rock (a fairly broad definition), no matter how you look at it. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 15:00, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Heartfourmewesique, I at least back my comments up; all that content is included in the pop rock article on here; your comment is OR. For that matter, what similarities do The Beatles, probably the most influential rock band in history, have to do with current rock bands like Green Day, My Chemical Romance, or Paramore? Toa Nidhiki05 22:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I guess you need to revisit some of those reading comprehension classes... because you are only supporting my point right now. Superficial similarity (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with style categorization, and so far, you have failed to prove that Bon Jovi's latest songs are not pop rock. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 16:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm not proving anything, and that is not how Wikipedia works; you can't made an unsourced statement and then, when someone tells you you don't have any proof, tell them they need to disprove it - that is the point of reliable sources. If Bon Jovi is pop rock as you say they are, it should be very easy to find a reliable source calling them that. You need to back up your statement, or it means absolutely nothing. Toa Nidhiki05 16:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Regardless of this example – or this one, where have you ever seen footnotes beside music genre listings on Wikipedia? Hearfourmewesique (talk) 05:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, I didn't see any objection to Glam metal? I have therefore, reinserted it. Soxwon (talk) 05:31, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

The Guardian one never calls it 'pop rock', it uses 'pop and rock', a classification akin to the 'pop/rock' sections often used in stores; that term means 'pop or rock', not actually 'pop rock'.
The other one actually does call them 'pop rock;, but that is only one source.
In addition, the band despises pop rock. I'm quoting a line from a son of theirs, 'Last One Standing':

The songs were more than music They were pictures from the soul

So keep your pseudo-punk, hip-hop, pop-rock junk
And your digital downloads

Also, looking at Allmusic (a reliable source) and their labeling of Bon Jovi, they use the genres 'Hard rock', 'Contemporary Pop/Rock' (once again, a label, not a genre), 'Hair Metal' and 'Pop Metal' (both terms used to refer to glam metal), 'Heavy Metal', and 'Album Rock'. I suggest we, for the sake of clearing this argument up, change the 'Genre' section to 'Hard Rock', 'Glam Metal', 'Arena Rock', and 'Rock'. Toa Nidhiki05 21:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
One source is still a source, and your analysis of their lyrics is pure WP:OR. Therefore, it has been established that their latest genre is pop rock – that is, of course, unless you want to prove otherwise. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 22:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Nothing has been established. I provided a conflicting source, and noted the band wrote a song explicitly criticizing, among other things, pop rock - this is not OR, as I only quoted the lyrics exactly. This is a dispute, and should be handled as such. Unilateral statements like 'This is established now' have no backing on Wikipedia; we make decisions by consensus, not the will of a single editor.
I would like to suggest holding a RfC on the issue. Toa Nidhiki05 00:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
*sigh* I swear, I give myself ten minutes on wikipedia and I have to weigh in on this. The use of lyrics is indeed WP:OR. I support Hard Rock, Glam Metal, and maybe pop rock. Soxwon (talk) 01:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
How is it, exactly? All I did was post them. Toa Nidhiki05 01:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Not really, you have been exercising your own free interpretation (WP:OR again) upon citing your own sources and mine. "Pop and rock" is not the same as "pop or rock" but rather closer to "pop rock" (again, second grade language lessons) and out of the Allmusic genres, you have chosen to single out "Contemporary pop/rock" as a "label, not a genre". So far, there are three sources, out of which one clearly calls a Bon Jovi concert "pure pop rock" several times, and there are no sources that clearly state that they are not pop rock. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 19:48, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
'Pop and rock' means, literally, 'pop and rock' - it means they are reviewing pop music AND rock music. And 'pop/rock' does mean 'pop or rock' - not both. In addition, pop rock does not mean 'both pop and rock', it means 'pop with heavy rock influence' or 'rock with heavy pop influence'; it's the same with other 'fusion' genres, such as 'Christian rock' (either rock with heavy Christian influence or Christian music with heavy rock influence). Toa Nidhiki05 21:39, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
OK, this has gone far enough so I'll quote your earlier argument: you have to back yourself up with reliable sources. So far, I have at least one indisputable source that uses the expression "pure pop rock" several times, while you have nothing. I also have another editor agree with me. Seems like a clear cut consensus. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 19:54, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
I do have a source, Allmusic, that does NOT define them as pop rock, so the sources are conflicting. In addition, I have the song lyric, which, as a stand alone source does nothing, but it does prove the band dislikes pop rock.
Also, 2 against one is not a consensus. The fact is, he said 'maybe', not 'sure', so he is not actually in your camp (or mine). Toa Nidhiki05 21:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Why don't you two get an outside opinion or an RFC PLEASE? You're not getting anywhere, you need outside help. Soxwon (talk) 01:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Exactly what I suggested, but that suggestion has been ignored as of yet. Does everyone favor an RfC? Toa Nidhiki05 14:44, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Before you do: as repeating myself has become somewhat of a habit around here, a source not defining them as being pop rock does not define them as not being pop rock; therefore, Allmusic does not contradict my source. If you want to post an RfC, please go ahead and do so, but please don't forget WP:NEUTRAL upon wording the request. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 04:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

RfC[edit]

This RfC is over whether 'Pop rock' should be added to the 'genre(s)' section. Toa Nidhiki05 20:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - For one, the only source supporting this is a concert review - an opinion article. Should we make a change like this based over 1 person's opinion? For another, Allmusic does not define them as Pop rock (They do say 'Contemporary Pop/Rock', but Pop/rock means Pop or rock, not 'pop rock' on Allmusic), nor does Billboard [1], which repeatedly uses the phrase 'pop metal' (a term synonymous with Glam metal), not pop rock; in fact, the phrase 'pop rock' is not in the article at all! The only mention related to 'pop' is referring to Lost Highway as a 'collection of pop-infused heartland country anthems', meaning that it was more along the lines of Country pop, not pop rock.

On another note, how in the heck can a 'hard rock' band also be 'pop rock' - those terms are pretty much polar opposites, as hard rock is aggressive and pop rock tends to be slower, with less guitar solos (along the lines of Maroon 5 or Kelly Clarkson). Clearly, neither sources nor actual sound matches Bon Jovi up with Pop rock; rather, it matches them up with Hard Rock, Glam Metal, and Rock. Toa Nidhiki05 20:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
References

Support- Bon Jovi do much similar to the acts above. They do not adhere to tenets of hard rock in such a way that, say, AC/DC or Motorhead do, and are, like the above acts, providing a more melodic, poppy take on the hard rock genre, which I would say is best defined as pop rock. Bennydigital (talk) 09:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Do you have any sources to back this up, cause this is entirely your opinion - hard rock is a varied and diverse genre which contains everything from some of Heart's stuff to AC/DC. In fact, Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting is very 'poppy', but it is considered hard rock as well. Bon Jovi fits into hard rock, not pop rock. Toa Nidhiki05 14:27, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Strong support First off, "those terms are pretty much polar opposites" is WP:OR, unless, of course, can be proven otherwise. If your own sources use terms like "pop metal" (again, you will have to prove that it is not associated with pop rock in any way) or "pop-infused", this pretty much defies your stance. This is your original analysis, and as an obvious Bon Jovi fan, you also have a clear case of WP:COI. Out of all the sources provided, most of them support the addition and there is not a single source that clearly states that Bon Jovi is not pop rock. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 15:30, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment - You need to prove me youridea that glam metal is pop rock, because the burden of proof falls on you, the person who wants to add the content. You're whole argument lies on the basis that pop-metal is pop rock, but but you don't have a source to even back that up; the only source you do have that calls Bon Jovi 'pop rock' is an opinion article, as stated above; the others never describe them as such. Once again, please prove pock rock IS pop-metal, and I will promptly go add it to every other page with the 'glam metal' genre.
In addition, they only described 'pop infused' for one album (the same reason we don't add 'country rock' to the genre heading; not enough uses by the band), and even then, it was more of a Country pop thing then a pop rock thing. Toa Nidhiki05 15:56, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Comment - Allmusic's assessment of 'pop-metal':

The least metallic variation of heavy metal, pop-metal became the most popular form of hard rock during the '80s. Some pop-metal bands emphasized metal's most important building block -- the guitar riff -- more than others, but pop-metal's main attraction were the huge, catchy hooks that owed a great deal to the fist-pumping choruses of arena rock. Most of the Los Angeles-based bands (where the scene was heavily concentrated) also drew on the elaborate visual stylings of British glam rock, which resulted in the much-maligned "hair metal" boom of the late '80s. While pop-metal sounded loud and aggressive on the surface, it nearly always had a slick studio sheen that kept it radio-friendly. '70s artists like Aerosmith and Alice Cooper had an undeniable influence on pop-metal, but the band that sparked the true genesis of the style was Kiss. Kiss' music was catchy and utterly simple, and their wildly theatrical visuals were an essential part of their appeal. Next came Van Halen, whose wild party-rock and virtuoso lead guitarist set the style for much of the pop-metal that followed. The first wave of pop-metal -- bands like Motley Crue (who would later become superstars), Quiet Riot, Dokken, Ratt, and Twisted Sister -- wasn't quite as poppy as it would later become, save for Def Leppard's 1983 landmark Pyromania, perhaps the most melodic metal album up to that point. Bon Jovi's 1986 smash Slippery When Wet ushered in the age of hair metal, where photogenic looks (and, yes, teased-up hair) became just as important in selling a band as the music itself. The following year, Def Leppard's Hysteria set new standards for smoothed-out production as well as blockbuster sales. Not all subsequent pop-metal fell into the slick, image-conscious hair-metal camp; Guns N' Roses, Tesla, and Skid Row often had a grittier edge, and Extreme was unpredictably eclectic, while veteran rockers Kiss, Aerosmith, and Alice Cooper all staged pop-friendly comebacks. But by and large, the hair bands reigned supreme, playing lots of sleazy Aerosmith boogie and big AOR-style power ballads with bits of Van Halen flash; Poison embodied the glammed-up, party-hearty excess of hair metal perhaps better than any. Pop-metal and hair metal (and the excess and formula that had come to be associated with both) were effectively wiped off the musical map by grunge in 1991; some pop-metal bands continued to record for smaller labels and cult audiences, but the music's reputation had suffered too much to restore its former glamour. [1]

Notice it refers to Pop-metal as 'heavy metal variation' and 'hard rock'; the phrase 'pop rock' is nowhere to be found. Pop-metal is NOT pop rock, it is a sub-genre of both heavy metal and hard rock. Toa Nidhiki05 15:59, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

References
*sigh* Again, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The fact that they do not mention pop rock does not mean it does not exist. It is sufficient for one source to mention it (the concert review) to fulfill my part as the editor adding the content. Now it's up to you to prove that they are not pop rock. Quote me one of your sources explicitly saying that "Bon Jovi's style is not pop rock" or something along those lines. Only then will you have a case. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 16:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, the absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence. I disproved you're idea Pop-metal is pop-rock.
You're argument basically consists of 'Nobody says they aren't, so they obviously must be what this one guy says they are!" at this point, and that is not reasonable nor accurate. Nobody considers pop-metal pop rock. Nobody considers hard rock pop rock. Does that mean I can waltz up and say 'Hard rock is pop-rock'? Of course not.
Once again, Allmusic describes them as many things, and pop rock is not one of them; the band itself does not consider itself that, either. I have one source that conflicts with yours. If you want to prove you're central thesis (Bon Jovi is pop-rock because of Lost Highway and Pop-metal, the latter of which is disproved), please find a source agreeing with it. If not, you have no case. Toa Nidhiki05 16:20, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it's a valid argument: at least one reliable source says they are, and none of your sources says they are not. I am having a hard time getting the fallacy here. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 15:44, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
The fact is, I have two sources that says they are many things, and pop rock is not one of them. You have an opinion article in which the writer calls them 'pop rock'. I also have the song lyric which, for some reason, is 'Original research', despite the fact that song lyrics can be a reliable source, considering it is written by the band itself. Point is, I have 3 that contradict, or, at the very least, don't agree with yours; that is the basis of conflicting sources. You're argument about pop-metal being pop-rock (which, BTW, was original research) has been disproved, and, as such, the only argument you have left is you're solitary source, which conflicts with all of mine. Toa Nidhiki05 19:10, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Please stop cluttering the RfC with unnecessary (and untrue) words. I have a source saying they are pop rock, you have sources that either say "pop/rock" or do not mention it at all. There is no conflict. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 18:32, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

you have sources that either say "pop/rock" or do not mention it at all.

1) - My point with the "pop/rock" being a categorization on AllMusic but not a genre, is justified, as 'Pop/Rock' is the broad category for all pop AND rock artists on there, including Lady GaGa, Nirvana, and Children of Bodom. Unless you want to say grunge bands like Nirvana and death metal/black metal bands like Children of Bodom are pop rock as well, you're point there is non-existent. 2) - Not mentioning when referring to genre is equivalent to saying they don't have that genre; I can claim The Beatles were black metal all I want, and, using you're logic, since nobody says they aren't, they obviously must be. The logic you use fails there.

If you want to accuse me of things, please do so elsewhere; if you want to disprove them, please, go right ahead and do so instead of making claims that amount to OR. Toa Nidhiki05 18:50, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Could somebody direct me to the source which this whole discussion is about? I can't find it in this mammoth of a discussion. (The one which either says Bon Jovi = pop rock or Bon Jovi = pop/rock) Bob House 884 (talk) 23:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Basically, the debate is whether they are 'pop rock'; I have pointed out he only has one source (an opinion article) to say it, but I have at least 3 that don't describe them as such. Also, 'pop/rock' is not an actual genre; it is a classification used to group all rock and pop acts in music stores and on Allmusic. Toa Nidhiki05 22:55, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I have a source (a WP:RS, no less) that explicitly calls a Bon Jovi concert "a pure pop rock experience" several times, while the other editor keeps pointing at sources that do not mention whether they are pop rock at all. Could anyone decide whatever and close this nonsense please? Hearfourmewesique (talk) 02:20, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Links? My view at the moment is that pop rock is a genre but pop/rock isn't (obviously), I'm not convinced that the abscence of the use of 'pop rock' on most of the sources can be used to demonstrate that that they aren't, but I'm also not sure that a description of one of their concerts as 'pop rock' neccessarily translates into describing the band as pop rock (I realise that might sound like I'm spliting hairs, but context is important here - if it says things like 'as usual a pop rock concert...' then its propably a better source than if it says 'a pop rock concert' since the latter doesn't neccessarily translate to the band as a whole). But yeah links would be helpful. Bob House 884 (talk) 08:04, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Allmusic's Bon Jovi artist profile and Pop-metal's definition. The 'pop/rock' and 'contemporary pop/rock' labels mean nothing, as 'pop/rock' is also used to describe black metal bands like Children of Bodom. I think my sources are more valid then his concert review (an opinion article; should we base this page of of one man's opinion?). Also, the band itself dislikes pop rock as shown by some of their song lyrics. Toa Nidhiki05 14:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Here is the link, Bob: article here, quotes: "Bon Jovi are impossible to fault as pure pop rock entertainers...", "the way they appropriate bits of roots Americana, Springsteen-ish blue collar rock, 1980s LA glam metal and U2-style stadium anthems, with cheesy pop hooks...". There is also this article that firmly incorporates them into pop culture – if you really want to split hairs you can argue that it's not the same, but if it looks like a duck etc. etc. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 05:01, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I've read through the sources you've linked me to there. I think that, whilst they don't specifically endorse 'pop rock' as a genre, there is an overwhelming consensus between the 4 sources I've been directed to, and the multiple grammy nominations for 'Best pop album/performance' that Bon Jovi is in some sense a pop group. I think that it wouldn't be appropriate for Wikipedia to completely leave it out of the genre list simply because sources don't entirely agree about where on the rock-metal spectrum they sit.

As to how to solve the issue, I guess you have to include either 'pop rock' or 'pop metal' on the genres list. I don't think either is any better supported by the sources or if theres really any difference between them in practice so I'm not sure which to include. A possible compromise is to list them as Hard Rock, Pop/hair/glam metal. Regards,Bob House 884 (talk) 11:05, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to officially endorse Bob House 884's idea of adding 'pop-metal'; the genre section would list Hard Rock, Pop-metal, and possibly just Rock. This would cover any and all 'pop' needs, I think...
...although 'pop-metal' actually is much different then pop rock. Pop rock utilizes catchy pop lyrics with minimal rock guitars; pop-metal basically combines glam rock appearance with power-chord driven metal and (often) shred guitar solos. The difference is about that of listening to P!nk and then listening to Def Leppard.
Also, Hearfourmwesique, pop culture has nothing to do with 'pop' music... It is basically a collection of ideas, perspectives, images, etc. that are considered consensus within mainstream culture. In other words, all it means is Bon Jovi is intertwined with the culture of America - nothing more, nothing less. Toa Nidhiki05 13:33, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Again, your interpretations. Pop metal (glam rock) is a thing of the past, specifically, the 80's. Therefore, Bob House's solution is to incorporate pop-rock into the genres. Now that we're all in agreement, let's add that and move on. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 20:04, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Music genre labelling is a minefield. Sometimes the only sustainable solution is to back out of the minefield, rather than stepping sideways. Do we need to pigeonhole Bon Jovi in a particular genre? Why not just copy a few descriptive words used by key sources, and leave it at that? bobrayner (talk) 21:11, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

If it were up to me, I'd just add 'Hard Rock' and 'Rock', maybe 'Glam metal' too, but we reached consensus here. :) Toa Nidhiki05 21:43, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Consensus? Three people actively supporting pop rock, one editor opposing it (still without one reliable source that negates them being pop rock), and a couple of undecided votes. To Bobrayner – just like any other article about musicians, this one needs a list of genres. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 03:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Apparently you didn't read his compromise suggestion to add something along the lines of hair/gam/pop metal, or simply add 'pop metal'; he supported a compromise, not your view, not mine either. Your only real supporter made one edit stating his vote and never participated in the debate, nor did he back his statement up by anything other than his personal view on the band. Toa Nidhiki05 17:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Since the compromising editor refers to their more recent music, pop metal does not apply (by your own definition), therefore pop rock it is. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 21:50, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

As to how to solve the issue, I guess you have to include either 'pop rock' or 'pop metal' on the genres list. I don't think either is any better supported by the sources or if theres really any difference between them in practice so I'm not sure which to include. A possible compromise is to list them as Hard Rock, Pop/hair/glam metal.

I see nothing supporting your statement based on the above comment. The compromising editor specifically suggested incorporating 'pop metal' and included a compromise not supporting your suggestion. Toa Nidhiki05 22:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
You are really playing an unfair game here, why did you small-font the part that claims "or if theres really any difference between them in practice" (referring to pop-metal vs. pop-rock)? This guy didn't go as far as checking the issue to realize that pop-metal refers to the music Bon Jovi made in the 80s, while the discussion should focus on their current stuff. At least don't manipulate your quotes. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 02:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

If he doesn't understand that, then how can you add him as a vote for your side? Toa Nidhiki05 03:09, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Because all in all he just doesn't know what "pop metal", an utterly obsolete musical genre, is – and neither did I until you pointed it out. He sides with the fact that some of their recent songs are sheer pop rock, no matter what or how he may call it. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 15:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

I think Bon Jovi is HEAVY METAL too. Listen to their albums in the 80's and you'll see it. Moreover, glam metal is a subgenre of heavy metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.165.73.215 (talk) 21:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Why not just call Bon Jovi and ask them.[edit]

All this debate over what genre they are. Just ask them directly. Seems simpler. -- Avanu (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Bon Jovi doesn't decide what genre they are, Reliable sources do I'm afraid. Bob House 884 (talk) 18:20, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
You're partly right. Reliable sources provide identification of what genre they feel that Bon Jovi is in. But the band themselves have a perspective that would be pointlessly obtuse not to consider. Please see ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RS#Self-published_and_questionable_sources_as_sources_on_themselves ) If the outside sources and the band agree, you can be fairly well assured that it is a good assessment of their genre. -- Avanu (talk) 18:33, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I have to say, this seems like a good idea. The issue here is getting Jon Bon Jovi to respond; he's worth over 350 million dollars. Why the heck do you think he would respond to some random Wikipedia users?

I would like to state, however, that given what is in some song lyrics of Bon Jovi's and his general opinion of the music industry, I doubt he would call the band pop rock. If we can contact him, great. If not... Toa Nidhiki05 22:10, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

New suggestion[edit]

I'm proposing a new idea here; we simply change the infobox 'genre' section to 'Rock', while we add a separate 'Musical style and genre' subheader above the band members, similar to what is used on the Paramore and The Beatles pages. It might read something like this:

Bon Jovi's musical style has generally been characterized as 'Hard Rock', 'Pop/Hair Metal', 'Arena rock' and 'Pop rock', although the band has also experimented and varied from these genres at times.

The band initially released albums blending the Pop metal and Hard rock genres, although they had mostly shed the Pop metal sound by their 5th studio album, Keep the Faith, opting for a more pure rock sound; this style was also used to their following album, These Days. Allmusic has characterized their 7th studio album, Crush, as 'far enough into pop/rock to actually stand a chance of getting airplay', while follow-up Bounce was described as 'heavy, serious rock'. Have a Nice Day was also characterized as being heavier than Crush.

The band altered their sound dramatically in the album Lost Highway, a Country Rock album, and The Circle was described by Allmusic as 'conjured by echoed, delayed guitars, shimmering keyboards, and spacious rhythms'.

Yes, I know there are no sources; I'll link them if this is approved. I figure this is a reasonable compromise that gives pretty much everyone what they want, but feel free to give your opinions and such. :) Toa Nidhiki05 22:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

This actually seems like a good idea, I'm all for it. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 02:17, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Alright; if anyone has some objections with this, please say so. Otherwise, I'll add this up in around 3 days or so and request the RfC closed. :) Toa Nidhiki05 03:11, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Hey, sorry I've not commented for a few days. This seems like a pretty good idea. 'Genre' sections on infoboxes always have this massive ability to cause edit wars and content disputes (see above for a case in point) and I think that's due to the simple fact that you can't boil down a musically diverse and complex band or (in this case) a 30 year career down to just a word or two. I suspect that most readers do, and perhaps more editors should, take the 'genre' section with a pinch of salt. I like this idea of taking it down to the very basic level of 'rock' and then explaining further in another section (kind of wish I had thought of it!) Maybe it's worth including a section link in the infobox itself to the Musical style section? Bob House 884 (talk) 14:14, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I agree also. Genre sections on musical acts are a quagmire, no one ever thinks they're ever right. This seems like a good idea to me, although I don't think we need the "see also" link in the infobox. The infobox is just a quick summary of the article, it's assumed that if you want more details, you'll read the rest. Nice job on the compromise, everyone. Dayewalker (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
I agree we need a "see also" next to it. Jamcad01 (talk) 09:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


WILL SOMEBODY PUT A PICTURES OF THE BAND FROM PAST TO PRESENT BESIDE THE ARTICLE/SUBTITLES/PHARAGRAPH. READERS WILL SEE HOW BON JOVI LOOKS EVOLVED SINCE THEIR LONG HAIRED SPRAY SPANDEX JEANS TO COWBOY HATS TO JONS CUTTING HAIR TO RICHIE MUSTACHE TO JONS' SLASH HAIR IN CRUSH ALBUM TO CIRLCES HUNK LOOKING GUYS.WHATEVER. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.106.53.58 (talk) 07:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

Can we please change "Rock" to "See Genre" and put a link to Musical Style/Genre? Jamcad01 (talk) 08:16, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

If no one replies within a few days then I will be changing it. Jamcad01 (talk) 07:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Bon Jovi proposal[edit]

I have proposed the creation of a WikiProject Bon Jovi here. If you would like to join or give input, please comment there. Thanks! Toa Nidhiki05 19:50, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

Ok, I reckon the genre needs to be changed from "Rock" to "Rock (See Musical Style/Genres)" Please reply if you support or oppose the idea. Jamcad01 (talk) 03:29, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

The infobox is meant to be a brief summary of the artist; Rock is general enough to describe what they do, and the rest can be fleshed-out in the article body. Radiopathy •talk• 17:57, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Sorry I meant "Rock (See Also)" Jamcad01 (talk) 07:07, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Rock is probably the most unhelpful attempt to describe their genre. I could honestly see adding glam metal (Rise to fame, two of their 4 number one singles, best selling album, and early image are all characterized by this genre), hard rock, and perhaps country/southern rock. Soxwon (talk) 00:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd support all but country or southern rock, since that was only one album - Hard rock, Pop metal, and Rock, perhaps? Jamcad01's is good as well. Toa Nidhiki05 00:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Ok let's have a vote.
1. Just "Rock"
2. "Rock (See Also)" (I vote for that one)
3. Glam Metal, Hard Rock & Rock.
Everyone one will have one week to vote. Whichever one comes on top will be the one that is going to be used. Jamcad01 (talk) 07:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I vote for #2. Jamcad01 (talk) 07:37, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd go with number #3. Soxwon (talk) 15:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Anything but #2 as do not want to go hunting for the info. Keith D (talk) 15:55, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Ok time's up. I will add #3 to the Genre list. Jamcad01 (talk) 08:55, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Sigh, genre talk (heavy metal)[edit]

In looking through the NUMEROUS discussions on genre, it looks like there is consensus that BJ is not a heavy metal band, which I 100% agree with. It appears that heavy metal has snuck back in as a genre in the infobox. Am I reading this discussion wrong, or should heavy metal be removed as a genre? I don't want to remove it myself as it seems that this is genre discussion on this page has a long history, so I will leave that up to you folks that have a stronger interest in this topic than I do. DFS (talk) 19:50, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

It should be, yes - Bon Jovi are only metal insofar as their association with 80s pop metal, which is just as rooted in pop as in metal. I believe the consensus has been hard rock and maybe pop/glam metal are the genres to be included. Toa Nidhiki05 19:53, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Bon Jovi[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Bon Jovi's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "riaa":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 15:02, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

AWARDS[edit]

The awards section on the main page should have its own page and not take up 15% of the main page. It does not add any real value to the Bon Jovi wiki page.

Missing Number[edit]

Isn't there a number missing in the sentence "New Jersey peaked at number in both the US and UK" in the New Jersey part of the History section? 212.110.123.36 (talk) 10:27, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Bad unclear wording[edit]

Under the section New Jersey & Heiatus - 'Jon took on the quarterbacking responsibilities himself by closing ranks and creating Bon Jovi Management'. I don't have a clue what 'quarterbacking responsibilities' or 'closing ranks' mean in this contextMr Morden76 (talk) 21:57, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Targeted by the NRA[edit]

http://www.rttnews.com/2057536/nra-puts-bon-jovi-on-list-of-enemies.aspx

Is being under the gun notable? Hcobb (talk) 16:48, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I'd question the reliability of that source since the list does not include Bon Jovi, but rather Jon Bon Jovi - aside from that, organizations have lists of people who oppose them quite often, it isn't really too notable. Toa Nidhiki05 17:03, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Richie Sambora[edit]

Please discuss this issue [1] and come to some consensus regarding the text. Thank you. -- KeithbobTalk 23:14, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

In this article (gutter press, by the way), Richie Sambora's merely referring to coming back on the tour he's currently not attending because of personal reasons (see official Bon Jovi website). It's never been stated anywhere, at any time and by anyone that Richie Sambora is no longer a member of Bon Jovi. Phil X is only replacing him on the current tour. Jessycardy (talk) 00:25, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment Jessy. Sambora is listed as a current member of the band. Which sentence(s) in other sections do you feel need to be changed? and what new text do are you suggesting? -- KeithbobTalk 13:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

There were two sections on the article where you could see the vandalism, but as of this very moment, the article seems to be fixed. I don't think there's anything else that needs major improvement, but if I find something, I'll make sure to post about it here. Thanks! Jessycardy (talk) 21:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

That's great Jessy, thanks for joining in the discussion and working this out :-) -- KeithbobTalk 15:58, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but unless I've missed it, there doesn't seem to be any mention in the article that Sambora is not playing on the current world tour. See [2] for a non-gutter press source. At the very least, the article needs to reflect that. --Viennese Waltz 07:32, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

The article now says that Phil X has replaced Richie Sambora as a band member, however this is simply not confirmed yet. Yes there has been a so-called split in the band, and Richie is not touring with the band, but Phil is simply filling in for Richie's absence as he did back in 2011. Beyond that is all this speculation regarding monetary issues etc. that is simply that - speculation. I feel the article should only reflect what we 'know' rather than what we 'suspect'. 20K-Man12 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:08, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Part 2[edit]

Until there is an OFFICIAL statement by either Bon Jovi (the band) or Sambora himself, we can't go by "reports" despite the sources. Without an official statement, it's speculation and rumors. We are an encyclopedia, not a newspaper, not a blog, not a breaking news site. There are conflicting "reports" in this news article alone. 03:27, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

First of all, it doesn't matter what "the horse's mouth" reports as long as we have multiple WP:SECONDARY sources that confirm the issue. Here they are: CBS News, Global News, Herald Sun and USA Today. The NY Daily News article tells us about a single anonymous source that denies Sambora's departure, but that is trampled by the presence of all this coverage (which I pulled from the first page of Google searching Richie Sambora). Finally, I don't need permission to revert BLP violations (it's a notable exception of the 3RR policy), but I'm discussing this out of courtesy. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 03:48, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
They are all echoing the same thing from another "report" by another news source, so no, that doesn't work. Courtesy? Okay, sure. Revert it again and see if any of the patrolling admins agree with you. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 03:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm with Jauerback, it's not official. Multiple sources means nothing when they're all quoting the same "original" article from RumourFix, which, BTW, says "fired from the TOUR", not the band. Phil X is NOT a member of Bon Jovi, neither is Hugh McDonald. - Iceman (talk) 07:55, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 September 2013[edit]

Please amend the error stating Phil X is the bands guitarist,he is not! Richie Sambora maybe taking a time out but he is still officially the lead guitarist, Phil X is a guest not a member of the band.

Wyken13 (talk) 22:19, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

You need to be more specific as I don't see where it still says that in the article. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 00:04, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

In the first paragraph... This guy is right, Richie is still part of the Band and always will be! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SCOTLANDREW (talkcontribs) 20:10, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Done. I'm not sure how I managed to miss that before. Jauersockdude?/dude. 15:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Change the genres already![edit]

The discussion over the genres have been ongoing and the consensus is they are Hard Rock first, Pop Rock, Glam Metal (they were early on, but not since the 80s) and I will argue Heavy Metal because they do have a number of Heavy Metal songs/albums. But simply leaving the primary genre for this band "glam metal" makes no sense because of what they are today. Also "rock" is too generic for me. Bottom line, the primary genre for this band should be hard rock. Basically the way it is on Jon Bon Jovi's wiki page is how it should be for the band itself.

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2014[edit]

bon jovi have sole 130 million records world wide. reference is bonjovi.com 146.90.234.12 (talk) 09:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited a reliable, independent, source to back up your request. Bonjovi.com is clearly not independant. - Arjayay (talk) 09:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2014[edit]

Wrong links in 'History'-'Third Hiatus' section. Please change incorrect links located on second paragraph. It must link New Jersey (album), not New Jersey state nor Sons of Beaches (Australian Crawl album). 61.108.14.235 (talk) 02:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Stickee (talk) 03:21, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

The article says Bon Jovi is Glam metal, Hard rock, and Rock but honestly, I think Heavy metal should be added in. While many of Bon Jovi's songs have a hard rock or Hair metal sound, a few, such as You give love a bad name definitly have a darker, dirtier sound closer to Heavy metal. I think Alternative metal should be added too because the album "Bounce" and several subsequient albums had a more alternative rock/alt metal sound. I mean, I honestly don't know what genre you'd call Bon Jovi. I know he's definitely rock, glam metal and hard rock, but Bon Jovi experiments so much and is influenced by so many different genres including country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.70.61.230 (talk) 02:37, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

If you are not pointing to published opinions to support your suggestion then you don't have any leverage. Binksternet (talk) 21:29, 15 January 2015 (UTC)